Warning from US State Department

[gemima]

Gaza is self-governing and they got billions of dollars of foreign help last 15 years. What they succeeded is to make the place a terrorist state suffocating in poverty, spent the money on weapons, instead of being a new Singapore.

I'm not going to agree with you on any of your posts - I just want to ask what do you see as a solution.
Palestine has been wiped off the map. However, there are still millions of Palestinians forced into holding pens in gaza and the west bank with settlers surrounding them. How could they ever be happy with their lot?
They have been failed by the west (who created Israel), their arab neighbors, and their leaders. Israel has meddled to make sure any political solutions failed. Terrorism was what was left.
You seem to want to wipe them off the face of the earth. The current set up of gaza and west bank is not going to ever be satisfactory to them. It just keeps the youth radicalized and hamas/ whatever comes after them will always exist.
Bombing gaza to stop hamas wont solve anything - there will be a replacement hamas in no time. The underlying issues need to be resolved.

 

[Bob]

It your neigbour attacks you on your land, including ancestral land, you have a right to defend yourself. Jews are pretty well documented last 3.000 years. Jerusalem had significant Jewish population in 19th century. Narrative that Jews came and stole the land is not thrue (at least until 1948 when Israel was formed).

Maybe you have some other thoughts or information fueling your Jew hatred.

I have no Jew hatred but nice try. Before the mass migration in the first half of the 20th Century things were relatively peaceful, no? And those migrating obviously came from elsewhere, hence the question.

 

[Bob]

Palestinians and Israelis will still be fighting each other in a thousand years (if humans still exist at that point), so it's better spending one's time and energy on other problems, ones that have solutions.

So continue the killing and forget it's happening? Ideally with a fair solution (much easier said than done) they'll stop fighting and live somewhat peacefully. Of course that will take huge changes to the status quo.

 

[Samoerai]

So continue the killing and forget it's happening? Ideally with a fair solution (much easier said than done) they'll stop fighting and live somewhat peacefully. Of course that will take huge changes to the status quo.

That solution, huh ship, sailed away in 1947, right?

 

[Bob]

That solution, huh ship, sailed away in 1947, right?

There are still possibilities but hope is dim.

 

[nd_eric_77]

So continue the killing and forget it's happening? Ideally with a fair solution (much easier said than done) they'll stop fighting and live somewhat peacefully. Of course that will take huge changes to the status quo.

As long as Hamas is in power, peace is impossible. https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/hamas-2017.pdf Hamas literally rejects the right of any state of Israel to exist.

 

[snpark]

Hamas is Hamas
Hamas is NOT Palestine and Palestine is NOT Hamas

I don't remember the SAS carpet bombing Belfast to get the IRA

 

[fastpitch17]

The only way to combat Hamas and Hezbollah is to choke them off. They are being directed and financed by Iran. Iran wants all to think that they are not involved but the world knows they are. Take out Iran and the terrorist groups are choked off. One could form a coalition to take them out and this would include some ME nations. SA may be in talks to normalize relations with Iran but SA hates Iran as do many Suni Islam led nations. Israel would need to back off for awhile and get more humanitarian aid into Gaza while taking charge of police actions there.

 

[nd_eric_77]

Hamas is Hamas
Hamas is NOT Palestine and Palestine is NOT Hamas

I don't remember the SAS carpet bombing Belfast to get the IRA

That is exactly why I said that peace is impossible as long as HAMAS is in power. I did not say anything about the Palestinian people.

 

[centurion]

One of the ways Israel removes palestinians from land and homes they have owned for generations, is by requiring them to prove that they legally own it. Either by deed or title or whatever. Since many don't have that, they use this as an easy trick to clear an area of Palestinians.

Thrue, to some extent recently.

Most of land acquired by Jews before 1948 was by purchase, mostly swamps that were converted to useablle land. After 1948, things take another turn, many Palestinians are expelled from the land or left by themselves. Same for Jews, almost 800.000 are expelled from Arab countries and moved to Israel.

Also, more than 10 million Germans were expelled from Poland after WW2, more than 14 million Indians and Pakistanis after separation of India and so on.

 

[Ruserious]

That is exactly why I said that peace is impossible as long as HAMAS is in power

So you take some land, put up borders with checks, harrass etc the population. They reach breaking point and start terrorism. The answer to that is of course to bomb them, killing huge numbers but hopefully getting the few active terrorists at the same time. After that everything will be ok and they will all be happy. No chance of increasing hatred and creating more terrorists.

Sure remove Hamas from power but there must be another way.

 

[centurion]

I'm not going to agree with you on any of your posts - I just want to ask what do you see as a solution.
Palestine has been wiped off the map. However, there are still millions of Palestinians forced into holding pens in gaza and the west bank with settlers surrounding them. How could they ever be happy with their lot?
They have been failed by the west (who created Israel), their arab neighbors, and their leaders. Israel has meddled to make sure any political solutions failed. Terrorism was what was left.
You seem to want to wipe them off the face of the earth. The current set up of gaza and west bank is not going to ever be satisfactory to them. It just keeps the youth radicalized and hamas/ whatever comes after them will always exist.
Bombing gaza to stop hamas wont solve anything - there will be a replacement hamas in no time. The underlying issues need to be resolved.

So for you existence of Israel is a problem and undel;ying issue. Israelis accepted two state solution in 1948, Palestinians rejected it and Arab allies waged a war to wipe out the Israel of the earth. They lost that war and two other wars against Israel.

To answer your question, the solution is to eliminate Hamas. If Americans could eliminate Bin Laden with commandos, and without carpet bombing Pakistan, Israelis shouldl explore similar solution, less invasive than now and with modern technology.

 

[Ruserious]

Not sure if you guys have seen the Bassem Youssef vs Piers Morgan interview. Hoping the link works.

Hidden Palestine on Instagram: "FULL INTERVIEW: Bassem Youssef destroys Piers Morgan on Gaza I couldn’t choose a single clip from this interview to post because there are so many moments where Bassem leaves Pierce literally speechless. So here is th

18K likes, 329 comments - hiddenpalestine on October 18, 2023: "FULL INTERVIEW: Bassem Youssef destroys Piers Morgan on Gaza I couldn’t choose a single clip from this interview to post because there are so many moments where Bassem leaves Pierce literally speechless. So here is the full thing...

www.instagram.com

FYI not an account i follow on instragram or anything so ignore anything else from there. Was just hard to find a link for the full interview.

 

[centurion]

Before the mass migration in the first half of the 20th Century things were relatively peaceful, no? And those migrating obviously came from elsewhere, hence the question.

Before British took over, the area belonged to the Ottoman empire. Christians were "dhimmis", officially second class citizens paying a "jizyah", tax for non-Muslims for centuries. Things are also peaceful in North Korea, low crime rate.

 

[gemima]

So for you existence of Israel is a problem and undel;ying issue. Israelis accepted two state solution in 1948, Palestinians rejected it and Arab allies waged a war to wipe out the Israel of the earth. They lost that war and two other wars against Israel.

To answer your question, the solution is to eliminate Hamas. If Americans could eliminate Bin Laden with commandos, and without carpet bombing Pakistan, Israelis shouldl explore similar solution, less invasive than now and with modern technology.

I sincerely wish it was so simple. But this version of hamas, if destroyed will just spawn another because all those people have nowhere to go, this violence will just breed more resentment and hatred. As I said they were failed by their leaders and should have accepted a 2 state solution (which no longer is possible due to all the settlers). Saying to them "too bad" doesnt solve anything now.

Noted about your view on Bin Laden approach - I think the issue in Gaza is that Hamas is supported by the majority in there and I dont think you should aim kill all Hamas supporters. I'm Irish and lots of nice people in the north supported the IRA when they were doing horrible things because they saw no other way to achieve their aims (there are still lots of paramilitaries on both sides active in the north of Ireland to this day - their violence is contained because of the political routes open to them and having more fairness in the society nowadays).

Edited to add - I do not have a problem with the existence of Israel (you suggested that - I dont understand why you assume that I want Israel to stop existing simply because I have sympathy for Palestinians??? Ive visited Israel, I have friends there, some Israelis share my sympathies!) but I have an issue with the way they have behaved regarding the people whose land they now own - there has been no long-term thinking regarding what happens to Palestinians - when Palestinian refugees entered nearby countries they have pretty much-caused chaos so there is nowhere for them to go now. There needs to be more fairness in how the land is shared. I support a 2 state solution but I think it is impossible and I am rather hopeless about it all.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

It is interesting how fast the population of Palestinians in Gaza has grown. 50 years ago it was about 300,000, now it is about 2.2m. The fertility rate 50 years ago was over 7. Now it is 3.4 which is still going to lead to more population growth. Half of the population is under 18.
One would think that being trapped in a big open air prison one's whole life would discourage people from having children being born into the same hopeless situation. But maybe that is a Western way of thinking, and demography may be their ultimate path to (a kind of) victory.

 

[harryopal1]

It tends to be the habit of people everywhere living in poverty and awful circumstances to have more children. And underlying that trend is that many countries do not have pensions or social support for the aged. So having many children is a kind of old age insurance. If you have just one or two something may happen to them before they are needed when the parents become incapable of self management.

 

[Hawk256]

It is interesting how fast the population of Palestinians in Gaza has grown. 50 years ago it was about 300,000, now it is about 2.2m. The fertility rate 50 years ago was over 7. Now it is 3.4 which is still going to lead to more population growth. Half of the population is under 18.
One would think that being trapped in a big open air prison one's whole life would discourage people from having children being born into the same hopeless situation. But maybe that is a Western way of thinking, and demography may be their ultimate path to (a kind of) victory.

I think you have touched on something but in the way you thought. What better way to exterminate a group but put them in prison and stop their reproduction? Pest control 101.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

I think you have touched on something but in the way you thought. What better way to exterminate a group but put them in prison and stop their reproduction? Pest control 101.

I wouldn't call the reduction of fertility rate from over 7 to 3.4 "stopping their reproduction". Any rate above 2.1 results in exponential growth of the population. So the population of Gaza is due to grow exponentially over the next decades, unless you mean the males and females are to be somehow completely separated, which doesn't seem possible or desirable.

 

[snpark]

So the Israelis are really helping Palestinians now? Ah ok.

Once Hamas has gone they will leave and let the Palestinians back onto all that empty fertile land.

How kind.
Or they just gonna doze it all down and make Trump Jerusalem Condo tower and casino resort