Advice on suing an employer for backpay

[Dharma Police]

Hey all.

A quick background into my situation: my company has not paid me since April of this year. Only half a month's salary back in September.

The owner claims it's because his money is all tied up in paying back an investor who gave him a large bridge loan. This was during the months the company was struggling, due to COVID. I believed him, until I visited our factory. We were almost at full capacity. This was in September, and I think since my boss couldn't hide the fact that we're doing better, he had to give me part of one-month's salary.

I just called him and finally asked for at least 2 months pay. He agreed to do it, but said I should look for another job. He can't afford me. I restrained myself from cursing him out. I recently made our company website and paid for said business trip out of pocket (I kept the receipts). This on top of managing the account of one of our most loyal buyers, who I visited back in 2019. No one else in the office was willing to brave the cold of France in February, so I went alone.

Okay, so. I'm almost certain he will not pay me back in a timely manner, if at all. If anyone knows the legality of this and what I can expect when I sue this company, please advise. Also, if you know an attorney I can talk to go ahead and PM me. Thanks in advance.

 

[snpark]

First thing to remember - VISA
He still sponsors you / KITAS / IMTA etc
Upset him too much and you will be out of a job and out of the country too

 

[Dharma Police]

First thing to remember - VISA
He still sponsors you / KITAS / IMTA etc
Upset him too much and you will be out of a job and out of the country too

I'm WNI and he is not.

 

[snpark]

What does your contract say?

 

[Dharma Police]

What does your contract say?

I was employed based on a handshake and gentleman's agreement. Negligent sure, but in my culture it's common practice.

 

[snpark]

Tough luck then. Sorry

 

[Hawk256]

I was employed based on a handshake and gentleman's agreement. Negligent sure, but in my culture it's common practice.

No contract means he said, she said and that doesn't cut it in any court. How would the court know what the actual agreement was? Sounds like an uphill battle.

 

[Ruserious]

Can he take this issue to manpower department? Or threaten to, as im sure if they come in they would uncover a lot of other issues.

 

[Dharma Police]

No contract means he said, she said and that doesn't cut it in any court. How would the court know what the actual agreement was? Sounds like an uphill battle.

I understand that, but what if I have TT evidence of salary every month which always stayed the same, until there was 0 from their bank after a specific time period?

 

[Dharma Police]

Tough luck then. Sorry

I refuse to believe this. Even if I don't get 100% backpay surely I can sue him for money owed based on bank statements.

 

[Vulgarian]

You're the Indonesian citizen, so why ask a bunch of (mostly) foreigners about how to navigate the Indonesian legal system?

Anyway, since you asked (heheheh), the boilerplate advice against legal action is threefold:

1. It'll take ages and cost a ton
2. Being incontrovertibly in the right doesn't guarantee that a court will find in your favour
3. In the event that you do win the case, good luck getting the payout enforced

The better approach seems to be to let the other party know that you're aware of the law and that you're perfectly prepared to waste their time and yours going through legal channels... Then see if you can reach a private agreement, for less than you're owed.

And this is for people who do have a written contract...

 

[Dharma Police]

You're the Indonesian citizen, so why ask a bunch of (mostly) foreigners about how to navigate the Indonesian legal system?

Anyway, since you asked (heheheh), the boilerplate advice against legal action is threefold:

1. It'll take ages and cost a ton
2. Being incontrovertibly in the right doesn't guarantee that a court will find in your favour
3. In the event that you do win the case, good luck getting the payout enforced

The better approach seems to be to let the other party know that you're aware of the law and that you're perfectly prepared to waste their time and yours going through legal channels... Then see if you can reach a private agreement, for less than you're owed.

And this is for people who do have a written contract...

You assume all Indonesian citizens are born and raised in this country and know the ins and outs of the legal system? I became WNI recently, I hope you can wrap your head around that. Furthermore, it's not only expats who are members here.

Thanks for the sound advice, however, it could've been given without the rhetorical question.

 

[Vulgarian]

Ah, sorry - I didn't think about the possibility of you being a new Indonesian citizen.

Apologies also if my tone didn't come across well in text. I was attempting to deliver that first paragraph with a wink.

 

[Dharma Police]

Ah, sorry - I didn't think about the possibility of you being a new Indonesian citizen.

Apologies also if my tone didn't come across well in text. I was attempting to deliver that first paragraph with a wink.

That is seriously the most decent, humble response I've gotten on this board. I like you @Vulgarian. Thanks again, pal.

 

[Vulgarian]

Aww, yer not so bad yerself

 

[centurion]

I refuse to believe this. Even if I don't get 100% backpay surely I can sue him for money owed based on bank statements.

If you are WNI and want to play games, Labor Law says that if temporary verbal work agreements exist, it automatically becomes a permanent one, meaning there are even severance payments have to be paid as well.

You have proof of salary payments, with a good lawyer who knows...

 

[Dharma Police]

If you are WNI and want to play games, Labor Law says that if temporary verbal work agreements exist, it automatically becomes a permanent one, meaning there are even severance payments to be paid as well.

You have proof of salary payments, with a good lawyer who knows...

He's definitely hiding behind the notion that he can get away with this. Sad thing is, he just might be able to by law, but I'll be damned if he doesn't at least pay back the salary he owes me.

Not paying me for 7 months, when I still worked in the spirit of loyalty to the company, is not only unethical, but in my eyes he's crossing a moral line. It seems all too convenient that he suggested that I find another job, when I finally asked to get paid. I didn't even ask for interest.

I have never sued someone, it's not my style. I'll go this route to make it known that I mean business, but if he starts to weasel his way out of making restitutions, I just may have to pay him a visit. That's the thing with doing business. You screw enough people, one day it'll catch up to you.

 

[fastpitch17]

I would think your first stop would be Manpower and see what they have to say and then formulate additional moves from there. It very well could include getting a lawyer.

 

[Dharma Police]

I would think your first stop would be Manpower and see what they have to say and then formulate additional moves from there. It very well could include getting a lawyer.

Yeah I got a referral for a lawyer specializing in labor laws.

 

[harryopal1]

He's definitely hiding behind the notion that he can get away with this. Sad thing is, he just might be able to by law, but I'll be damned if he doesn't at least pay back the salary he owes me.

Not paying me for 7 months, when I still worked in the spirit of loyalty to the company, is not only unethical, but in my eyes he's crossing a moral line. It seems all too convenient that he suggested that I find another job, when I finally asked to get paid. I didn't even ask for interest.

I have never sued someone, it's not my style. I'll go this route to make it known that I mean business, but if he starts to weasel his way out of making restitutions, I just may have to pay him a visit. That's the thing with doing business. You screw enough people, one day it'll catch up to you.

Good luck. It never ceases to amaze me how employers can underpay staff entitlements. And it is not just petty crooks. Appalling the number of large corporations that are caught out paying employees less than their entitlements. I hope you have some success in attempting to get your oustanding wages but this has cost you already so it is important that you do not lose more by having it erode your morale and mental well being.'

Coles underpaid over 7,800 employees more than $115 million, Fair Work Ombudsman alleges

The Fair Work Ombudsman takes Coles to court for allegedly underpaying thousands of employees over $115 million

www.abc.net.au