Ministry of Agriculture Announces Intention To Ban Dog Meat Trade

Jeez... give us a break with your Indonesian government this, Indonesian Government that, Pak Asam manis. Your link says that "at a meeting on veterinary public health held by Indonesia’s Ministry of Agriculture, officials confirmed their intention to support a ban on the trade in dog meat and to deny veterinary certification for dog meat."
Basically "officials" have declared they support a ban on trade meat. Are they DPRs those people? Has it been debated in the DPR? Voted?
Have you read anything in the local medias such as Kompas concerning a soon to happen ban on the dog meat trade or are you just peddling your article of humanesociety.org without having verified how serious your source is?
How many declaration of this type by "officials" never become laws?

I have never said that it will actually become a law. I have said that the intention has been declared, and that I SUPPORT it becoming the law ... so both of these things are pretty much, definitively, true. Government officials said they want to / will do it, and I support it. AnD anybody with a ufkcing heart should support it too. My opinion, if you don't like it, have fun playing with your own..
 
but just IN CASE there are actually more than about 12 people reading and perhaps occasionally posting in this joint (which seems pretty unlikely, from the brief look-in I've had in the past few days ;) ) ....

If you ever wish to confirm the number of people currently reading the forum, we have a handy statistic tool just to the right bar (or keep scrolling down if you're on mobile).

At this very instant, it looks like this:
Capture.JPG


Discounting the 9 robots, that is still 36 people on the forum. Eight are logged in with a user name, 28 are browsing without logging in (guests). In fact, I don't think there has been a day in the life of this forum where this number has been fewer than 12. (It shows 8 members, but only lists 3 usernames, because the other 5 members have chosen to not publish their name when online. This can be set in user preferences).
 
I had forgot until I read steveandpennys write up how cruely dogs die, I was told by a Chinese friend the harder you beat a dog and the louder it howls the tastier the meat, I know in the West we do try and cause as little distress as possible, but to torture an animal isn’t really humane

Your choice of friends is rather telling. .
 
.
.... especially when no-one has even remotely mentioned that they would steal and kill your dog. Your statement was odd in this way too. The topic was about the trading of dog meat and the way they are butchered. For your information, most dog traded on the market are raised and sold by their "owners".

"These laws have largely been ignored and unenforced for decades, allowing for the theft and slaughter of millions of dogs and cats."

- Sydney Morning Herald, 6 August 2018

"Many of the animals are stolen family pets and illegally trafficked dogs collected from the streets and rural communities across Indonesia."

- Daily Mail.com, November 2nd, 2017

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5042541/Horrific-footage-Indonesia-s-dog-meat-trade.html


These are two mainstream media outlets, reporting that many of the animals are not bred for the trade, but rather are stolen pets and illegally trafficked strays. If you Atlantis or others, have factual information or other reporting to the contrary, please show it. Pet theft is a problem in Western countries, too, not just in Asia, but in Asia the stolen animals are 100% likely to end up as meat. So, for me to say that I would kill anyone who tried to harm one of my dogs is *not* a pure hypothetical.

* Please watch the video in the link above and tell me you have no problem to see it. (It is an answer I fully expect from you) *

Okay, so the video of the tukang buruh collecting the dogs in villages and throwing them into the truck does not *prove* that the animals are anyone's pets. It also does not show that they are not. In any case, the ones taking them are most certainly not their "owners", or if they have just been "sold" to them, as is likely in some cases (and is shown on the video at one point), the sellers are guilty of animal cruelty, with (unenforced) laws probably already on the books.

(again, to anyone who reads this, I encourage you to watch the embedded video)

PS: I am the OP of the thread, please don't condescend to tell me what the "topic" can include.
 
Last edited:
Public Information regarding the public health risk of the pet meat trade (as well as animal cruelty):


https://www.facebook.com/stopthedogmeattradeglobal


http://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking-news.php?id=111328


"
Anti-dog meat campaigners say tests of just nine dog carcasses from markets on the Indonesian island Sulawesi revealed one infected with rabies, highlighting the public health risks from the brutal trade.

The Humane Society International and Indonesian groups operating under the banner of Dog Meat Free Indonesia are campaigning to end the trade in live dogs for human consumption.

Earlier this year they released videos showing dogs being bludgeoned in front of spectators at Sulawesi markets and their hair burned off by blowtorch while alive.

The groups said the infection "hit rate'' is consistent with published studies showing a high prevalence of rabies-positive dogs for sale in markets in Indonesia and other parts of Asia. "


https://asiancorrespondent.com/2017...eted-activists-indonesia/#pisU56iHUA2zpfUb.97

I have not even mentioned the public health risk factor until now because I have focused on the animal cruelty aspect. Both of them however go hand in hand. - P A M
 
My final word to "steveandpenny":

I have re-read both of your posts again, and the best I can make out your final position (so far) is that you totally support a proposed ban on the dog meat trade, with exemptions for every part of the country where people actually, traditionally, eat dogs..

It seems to me pretty meaningless, in that case (both your "support" and the law that would read as above).

How many cats or dogs you lovingly care for at home doesn't mean squat to the ones still bound (literally) for the pasar at Tomohon and elsewhere, unless you have a place for them too and are going to take them home. While actually supporting a ban on the practice that gets them treated so cruelly up to being killed, might mean a little more to them if they could know it.
 
Last edited:
A note about "namecalling": The term "fishmonger" refers to a person who hawks or sells fish, just as a warmonger is one who encourages people to "buy" war; it (fishmonger) is not meant as a derogatory or pejorative epithet. To the best of my knowledge, the person I called a "fishmonger" is indeed, a fishmonger. No defamation intended. :)

Also by the way: if anyone should think that I posted this thread with some carefully thought-out intent to cause a stir, commotion, ruckus, brouhaha, dustup, controversy, conflagration or Apocalypse, leading anyone to run from the forum shrieking in horror ... please think again. It had no more carefully planned "intent" than my recent "DaDa" thread in the general chat section.

I saw the story posted at Facebook by HSI, I thought, 1) this is interesting and compelling to me personally, 2) this is relevant to a discussion of Indonesian life and current events and therefore most appropriate to post on an Indonesia Expat forum, and 3) perhaps it will spark some interest or conversation.

Everything else which follows is, from my perspective, a few people continually questioning my basis for posting this and claiming that it is what I claim it is, namely an initiative or plan by *Indonesian government officials* (ha ha ha), to ban the dog meat trade, which I support, and telling me that my support for a ban and my arguments are invalid.

After that they continue to try to shoot me down, and I keep responding. It's really nothing out of the ordinary, for those who have been around for awhile, particularly back at "the Old Forum", and nothing particularly "explosive" or "incendiary" happening here. I personally do not feel that using tools available to all forum members in post composition, like bolding or underlining, constitutes "screaming". I prefer to think of it as "emphasizing", but all opinions on that are theoretically valid, I suppose. For me personally, dogs being treated like (monetarily) valuable garbage is something which kind of raises my hackles and gets my blood boiling a bit .. guess it's just me.
 
Last edited:
So why is a cooked sausage in a bread roll called a hot dog, even in USA ?
 
Your choice of friends is rather telling. .

Why is it Warmie you make cretinus one Line remarks on what you know nothing about, for your info and only you the discussin with my Chinese friend occurred in Guangzhou after I had seen a shop just selling dog meat and he was of the same option as me that it wasn’t a nice site and he didn’t eat dog meat,
Perhaps the Moderators could sort this out
 
Yes, the NYT is a credible source, not withstanding the views of our President. The article at several points notes that trustworthy data is simply not available. Thus the article is essentially a string of anecdotes and quotes from persons and organizations with an agenda. Its a news story about what advocacy groups think is happening, absent the sensationalism characteristic of the Daily Mail.
 
Why is it Warmie you make cretinus one Line remarks on what you know nothing about, for your info and only you the discussin with my Chinese friend occurred in Guangzhou after I had seen a shop just selling dog meat and he was of the same option as me that it wasn’t a nice site and he didn’t eat dog meat,
Perhaps the Moderators could sort this out
Your post implied your friend had first hand knowledge of cruelty. You used that implication to bbulster
 
Why is it Warmie you make cretinus one Line remarks on what you know nothing about, for your info and only you the discussin with my Chinese friend occurred in Guangzhou after I had seen a shop just selling dog meat and he was of the same option as me that it wasn’t a nice site and he didn’t eat dog meat,
Perhaps the Moderators could sort this out
Your post implied that your friend had first hand knowledge of cruelty; an impression created to support your view. He did not. You and the Daily Mail have something in common.
 
So, if as atlantis has indicated, this city initiative or "agreement" of Tomohon will not be implemented "due to the failure of the petition drive", it means one of two things (to be fair, I don't know which);

1) the animal rights groups have misconstrued, or are lying about, the city government having already agreed to it, or

2) the City officals said to them one thing, but proved to be a chickenshit about actually doing anything

https://www.livekindly.co/indonesian-city-commits-to-ban-dog-and-cat-meat-trade/

You could have had an answer easily by researching the topic a little further, Pak asam Manis.

In the past couple of days I have asked their opinion to "officials" of the local government I happen to know. None gave me the impression that a ban of the dog meat trade was on the agenda.

Here is a declaration made by Olly Dodomkambey, governor of my province on the topic of Pasar Beriman:

https://news.detik.com/berita/d-383...bakar-di-tomohon-gubernur-sulut-itu-tak-sadis

To him, the processing of dogs in pasar Beriman is not sadistic in his own words (cara memotong atau mengolahnya tidak sadis dan tidak sembarangan).
Beside being governor of the province he is a very influential PDI-P cadre, former ketua fraksi PDI-P at the DPR.

I note that your link dates Feb. 2018. Olly's comment dates April 2018, so it should give you an idea about the answer to be given to your question.

Further researches would have lead you to similar comments by Jimmy Eman the mayor of Tomohon, all posterior to your link.

However, all of them, including the one I have discussed with in the past two days, are fully aware that something should/may be done, and in their own words, that it must be done in the respect of Minahasan people traditions.

I heard through the grapevine that the solution they work on is to basically hide the processing of dogs from the view of tourists, processing which is what is the most shocking and has dragged international attention and to better control the health of animals traded. The former is what is done in Pasar Bersehati and most pasar in Manado where dog meat is sold.

Would this curb the dog meat trade? Absolutely not. However, it will increase the potential for traffic but it would be long and vain to explain you. I don't think you want to hear anything but what you would like to happen.

One thing you should perhaps consider, is that in all links you posted, strictly no names of officials is given. This has contributed to ring alert bells in me. But perhaps it's just me. I like that, when something is quoted, the source be named. It eases verification. When no names are given, you can question the credibility and agenda of the people peddling it.In your links, it always remain blurred. "Officials", Tomohon Government...etc. but no names allowing to assess how credible the news is. Who are they, and, if one is so sure of his information, why not attributing the quote/declaration to his/her owner?

I paste you an excerpt of your link:

We received exciting news this weekend regarding our fight against the global trade in dog meat. At a meeting on veterinary public health held by Indonesia’s Ministry of Agriculture, officials confirmed their intention to support a ban on the trade in dog meat and to deny veterinary certification for dog meat.

Representatives of the Dog Meat Free Indonesia Coalition, of which Humane Society International is a member, were present to share the results of the coalition’s nationwide investigation of the trade. But the crucial influence was the clear communication by leading veterinary public officials, including Dr. Syamsul Ma’arif, Dr. Hastho Yuliadi, Dr. Yadi Cahyadi, and Dr. Wiwiek Bagj, that the dog meat trade is a serious public health threat, a significant animal welfare issue, and a substantial problem for Indonesia’s growing tourism industry.

Who are these officials, Pak Asam Manis? Are they the leading veterinary public officials? or the Ministry himself? If it's the former, I suggest you to be cautious. If the officials are them (it wouldn't be surprising since at least two of them are long term support of the anti dog meat trade lobby) it means they have the intention to support a ban by submitting their conclusion. Not much more. It is commendable from them to give a "clear communication" on the matter, and I think that some Associations, in their own communication, should follow their example. If it's the Ministry himself, then we are one step further. But anyway, you and I know that if it was him, he would be named.

What impresses me, Pak Asam Manis, is that you post a thread whose title is "Ministry of agriculture announces intention to ban dog meat trade" while their official website seems to make no mention of it. Oh ya... it's reported in Dailymail and the site of anti dog meat association. It must be true then. Apologies for having questioned the veracity of your thread.
 
I had forgot until I read steveandpennys write up how cruely dogs die, I was told by a Chinese friend the harder you beat a dog and the louder it howls the tastier the meat, I know in the West we do try and cause as little distress as possible, but to torture an animal isn’t really humane
Hi Anglian,
Though I have absolutely no doubt you were genuine in your intention, and that your friend also may have believed it, I think that you will admit that your friend was just reporting an hearsay, and has never seen it himself. I have heard this kind of thing to, never by anyone being a dog meat eater and never witness it, but always by people who were advocating not to eat dog meat.

What I can tell you is that the one hit death is the norm in my part of Indonesia. I certainly not say it ain't cruel, but I sure can tell you what you describe isn't the norm here.
I also have never heard anyone eating dog meat associating strike and tenderness of meat. It would be by the way ridiculous because whatever you do, dog meat is NEVER tender or even tasty. If you really interrogate people, what they crave about is more the taste of the bumbu/spices, associated to the meat.
 

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:0)

Follow Us

Latest Expat Indo Articles

Latest Tweets by Expat Indo

Online Now

Newest Members

Forum Statistics

Threads
6,598
Messages
110,924
Members
3,882
Latest member
Jordan437
Back
Top Bottom