Ahok's Blasphemy Trial Verdict - 9 May 2017

[Joko]

Kemanusiaan yang adil dan beradab... yeah, maybe not so much.

 

[Vicissidude]

Don't throw it away. If I'm not wrong you can get done for that too

I have a decent arm.. bet I can reach the river from my balcony.

 

[Euc-]

The prosecution dropped the Blasphemy charge due to no evidence to prove it but the judges still convicted him of it.

Is that even legally allowed? Being convicted of something you aren't accused of?

 

[fastpitch17]

Is that even legally allowed? Being convicted of something you aren't accused of?

It's Indonesia. They do as they please. Just because the prosecution dropped the charge for lack of evidence, the court paid no attention to the lack of evidence. Par for the course here. Perhaps the Supreme Court will see it differently.

 

[Anglian]

It's Indonesia. They do as they please. Just because the prosecution dropped the charge for lack of evidence, the court paid no attention to the lack of evidence. Par for the course here. Perhaps the Supreme Court will see it differently.

We hope so as this is ridicules

 

[Davita]

It's Indonesia. They do as they please. Just because the prosecution dropped the charge for lack of evidence, the court paid no attention to the lack of evidence. Par for the course here. Perhaps the Supreme Court will see it differently.

Exactly....the Jessica trial was similar. There was NO evidence of Mirna dying from cyanide yet the 'judges' found Jessica guilty of poisoning her.

 

[Jinx_15]

There's a conspirational theory that ahok was detained for 2 years so he can't applied to be the next vice president with jokowi for 2019 election.. but it still a wild conspiracy..

But seeing that HT said his father was a moslem so he'll be a moslem.. right?

 

[nd_eric_77]

There's a conspirational theory that ahok was detained for 2 years so he can't applied to be the next vice president with jokowi for 2019 election.. but it still a wild conspiracy..

But seeing that HT said his father was a moslem so he'll be a moslem.. right?

At this point, I think that Ahok would be more of a liability than an asset to Jokowi in the general election. Even there are a few majority Christian areas (plus Hindu Bali which loves Ahok), they would not be enough to overcome the demagoguery of the sermons against "kafir" Ahok in the Islam-dominated areas. In fact, were I a rival of Jokowi, I would probably WANT him to pick Ahok as a running mate.

 

[Daniel50]

My wife was reading a story on Facebook about a Chinese woman waiting for taxi, recently, when some guys went by on bikes with long robes and hollered at her kafir. She said she had asylum offer and job outside this country because of 1998 but decided to stay as Indonesia was her country. But now she feels sad and has doubts about her country.

 

[kratos]

Plutocracy rules here...
Hizbut Tahrir out, it would be total chaos if Ahok free. The military is clearly not 100% behind Jokowi after Gatot interview at Kompas.....

Yusuf kalla is the head of Mosque Council (dewan masjid), yet he said no shit when mosques are used for propaganda. Cikeas released the Kraken 411 FPI ISIS HTI, Cendana set up Buni Yani

But Ahok verdict could also be used by Jokowi to permanently shut down FPI and drag Rijik back here to Indonesia


well, let's see

 

[Daniel50]

Yes a lot of the problems are not that simple. There are a lot of different players. There are some rich people non Muslim etc want Ahok out for business/money reasons. There are some who also just want power and money. There are some who want those but also believe in a more fundamental view of Islam. Using reason and surely people want democracy doesn't work with some because they believe Islam needs to take a stronger role in society, that Islam needs to run things, Political Islam, and that you cannot separate the religion from this. Even in this there are a lot of varying degrees of belief and practice. But the radicals are always oppressive to other Muslims who don't share their beliefs and to all minorities/religions.

 

[serious_fun]

The prosecution dropped the Blasphemy charge due to no evidence to prove it but the judges still convicted him of it.

and now the 'judges' can sit in places of honour at the mosque, while receiving approving looks from all 'true believers'.



Indo just dropped quite a few spots in world opinion after this high-profile comedy.

 

[nosox]

So, when he appeals, the appeal goes to the Supreme court? If so, aren't these the same monkeys the FPI etc went to to ensure a "fair" judgement .......... poor Ahok .... he's fucked

 

[atlantis]

So, when he appeals, the appeal goes to the Supreme court? If so, aren't these the same monkeys the FPI etc went to to ensure a "fair" judgement .......... poor Ahok .... he's fucked

The appeal will go to the High Court (Pengadilan Tinggi) first which should take anything from two to five months. Usually, the High Court work pretty fast.

Then should any party being unsatisfied by the ruling, the case will be brought to the Supreme Court (Mahkamah Agung). In the past few years Mahkamah Agung has improved its record concerning speed at which cases were reviewed but it isn't rare that a year+ passes before a ruling is officially communicated to all parties, meaning that Ahok may stay in Cipinang over a year and be eligible for parole even before getting an answer from MA.

I apologize for being pessimistic but I would be very surprised if MA would overturn drastically the District Court ruling.

From memory I can't recall a single case of blasphemy which ended with an acquittal. Pasal 156/156a kuhp has not often been used in Indonesian court but each time a case has been brought to Court it ended with a conviction. Religion is a highly sensitive topic and I don't think that any judge would take the risk of considering the facts and decide an acquittal. Sacrificing an innocent has never been a tangible preoccupation of the justice system and Indonesian society when the spectrum of troubles to the public order was seen in filigram. It was true yesterday, it is true today and it will remain true tomorrow. Perhaps it is new for some in our community but cases such has the one of Neil or the one of Ahok are nothing but new.

Ahok has been fucked the day he has been indicted for blasphemy.

 

[ChrisTex]

You know it is bad when a friend in Kansas tags you to a post from the local news channel on Facebook about the verdict.

I wondering just how much this farce of a case is going to cost Indonesia in the short and long run.

 

[Daniel50]

From memory I can't recall a single case of blasphemy which ended with an acquittal. Pasal 156/156a kuhp has not often been used in Indonesian court but each time a case has been brought to Court it ended with a conviction. Religion is a highly sensitive topic and I don't think that any judge would take the risk of considering the facts and decide an acquittal. Sacrificing an innocent has never been a tangible preoccupation of the justice system and Indonesian society when the spectrum of troubles to the public order was seen in filigram. It was true yesterday, it is true today and it will remain true tomorrow. Perhaps it is new for some in our community but cases such has the one of Neil or the one of Ahok are nothing but new.

Ahok has been fucked the day he has been indicted for blasphemy.

I also remember a news documentary when the Canadian teacher was convicted and part of the story indicated how quite often in Indonesia people are convicted if judges think there is some strong public opinion they are guilty.......so it really begs the question why have a legal process, prosecutors, defence, judges and in fact laws on the books. How can the judges even spend that amount of time deliberating while ignoring the facts including from the prosecutors, in the Ahok case?

 

[Anglian]

I think that is the answer, the judges give a verdict that the public wants, guilty or not, the advantage of English law the judge has to follow what the jury decides, there are cases of jury tampering, but not on the scale of judge tampering here.
I have a friend who did jury service in England, they found the accused not guilty, reason he was just a stupid prat and they felt sorry for him, the judge gave them a telling off but couldn't change the verdict

 

[Asun]

Is there no trial by jury at all in Indonesia? Being tried by a jury of your peers is the hallmark of common law. Even Italy, home of the Roman law has trial by jury for serious cases.

 

[Davita]

Three of the judges in the Ahok trial have been promoted. It had nothing to do with the trial...it is said. https://en.tempo.co/read/news/2017/...-Judges-Handling-Ahok-Blasphemy-Case-Promoted

 

[fastpitch17]

Three of the judges in the Ahok trial have been promoted. It had nothing to do with the trial...it is said. https://en.tempo.co/read/news/2017/...-Judges-Handling-Ahok-Blasphemy-Case-Promoted

Promoted by the head prosecutor. Took 3 to 4 months to go through 4 stages. How long did the trial take? Hey judges, go with the prosecution and there is promotions in your near future. A smart person would have waited a little while before making this crazy announcement. There were 5 judges. Three were Muslim. Are these the three Muslims? There's your payoff. Why the Prosecutors office say they win 99% of their cases. They say because they are so prepared. yeah, prepared to pay off judges it seems.