What Keeps People In Indonesia?

[Daniel50]

No not in Europe. The best option for retirement is the Philippines..

Why..???

Because we expats fit in and are accepted in the Philippines... Nobody stares at you in the street... Nobody yells "hello Mister" or "hello Misses" everytime you go out... You will not be referred to by the racist term "Bule" or called a kaffir if you are not a Muslim.

And.. almost everyone speaks English and booze is cheap and plentiful.

So what keeps you in Indonesia ukcouple? It doesn't sound like retirement? Are there some positives for you here?

 

[scouser59]

No not in Europe. The best option for retirement is the Philippines..

Why..???

Because we expats fit in and are accepted in the Philippines... Nobody stares at you in the street... Nobody yells "hello Mister" or "hello Misses" everytime you go out... You will not be referred to by the racist term "Bule" or called a kaffir if you are not a Muslim.

And.. almost everyone speaks English and booze is cheap and plentiful increases

Also any increases to the British retirment will be paid, where as here in Indonesia they aren't,

Interesting anglian, I didnt know that , I learn something every day .

 

[ukcouple]

So what keeps you in Indonesia ukcouple? It doesn't sound like retirement? Are there some positives for you here?

When I first came to Indonesia about 20 years ago it was a much different place.

I loved Indonesia then because it seemed so easy going, relaxed and tolerant.

The way Islam was practised then was moderate. The hard line Middle Eastern Arab style Islam you see in Indonesia now is quite a new development and it seems to have crept up on us without us really noticing.

It was how Indonesia used to be that drew me here all those years ago. Sure when I first arrived the culture the food etc was new and exciting but that gets old after a while.

What keeps me here now is friends and relationships made over the years. If I arrived in Indonesia yesterday as I did 20 years ago it wouldn't have the same attraction for me.

 

[Davita]

Also any increases to the British retirment will be paid, where as here in Indonesia they aren't,

Interesting anglian, I didnt know that , I learn something every day .

Here's a list of countries where, if resident, a UK Old Age Pensioner gets UK COL indexation and all others do not....I have no idea why there is such discrimination.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...e-pay-an-annual-increase-in-the-state-pension

 

[ukcouple]

....I have no idea why there is such discrimination.

Nobody seems to know why they discriminate against certain countries.

It's unfair and has been a bone of contention amongst expats for many years.

 

[scouser59]

When I first came to Indonesia about 20 years ago it was a much different place.

I loved Indonesia then because it seemed so easy going, relaxed and tolerant.

The way Islam was practised then was moderate. The hard line Middle Eastern Arab style Islam you see in Indonesia now is quite a new development and it seems to have crept up on us without us really noticing.

It was how Indonesia used to be that drew me here all those years ago. Sure when I first arrived the culture the food etc was new and exciting but that gets old after a while.

What keeps me here now is friends and relationships made over the years. If I arrived in Indonesia yesterday as I did 20 years ago it wouldn't have the same attraction for me.

I agree the country is going down the "radical toilet" , which of course makes it less attractive prospect

 

[rabbit_39]

Just had a conversation with a potential client who is an international company looking to do projects in Indonesia (not to establish itself, yet). We had a good chat about Indonesia and its potential and the different types of projects I can help them develop in Indonesia that are within their frame of interest and limitations. They seemed interested and I went in for the kill and said that the best way to ensure that they get a project is a medium term commitment. Nothing moves fast in Indonesia. And I said I was willing to work with them to allow for a win-win solution for the both of us.

And then he said the following:
" Andre, why should I commit to any length to the Indonesian market? Or even stick to my commitment once I make it? Indonesia itself doesn't seem to commit to its own laws and regulations. If I'm willing to come into a country and invest in it, I only need a fairly high confidence that the laws and regulations I enter are being upheld by the country. Or if it was going to change, it's done in a way that allows me to adapt. In short, I need stability. I don't see Indonesia making a commitment to me as an investor, why should I make a commitment to it?"

Relating this back to this thread, I believe as someone who doesn't have an external tie to Indonesia (oversimplification of my condition), that statement is why I am only in Indonesia as long as I can still extract its resources for my benefits.

 

[Bad_azz]

I would simply turn that question back on him and ask why is he interested in investing in Indonesia at all?

 

[rabbit_39]

I would simply turn that question back on him and ask why is he interested in investing in Indonesia at all?

It's a gamble. A calculated risk. Project developers and businesses will weigh the potential of profits against the risks. Simple.

Without anyone willing to make the gamble, developing countries like Indonesia will never have any FDI. As a matter of fact, that's the role of development agencies and banks, to decrease the risks to the investors.

His question really isn't unique, in not so many words (or more words), it's a common sentiment that I'm experiencing more and more this last 2-3 years. I've just finished a circuit of SE Asia conferences in November/early December, and the topic of my talks were the different opportunities that those willing to be creative in the business model can take advantage of in Indonesia. And I can tell that I have to work much harder to convince people now than in 2011-2013.

Of course I'm not saying there's nothing good about Indonesia. Obviously many of you guys are finding it.

 

[rugby]

Of course I'm not saying there's nothing good about Indonesia. Obviously many of you guys are finding it.

It's awesome! The corner sate vendor just provided his motorbike and asked the warung guy to ojek me back to my house. I had only ordered 10 sticks.

 

[waarmstrong]

No not in Europe. The best option for retirement is the Philippines..

Why..???

Because we expats fit in and are accepted in the Philippines... Nobody stares at you in the street... Nobody yells "hello Mister" or "hello Misses" everytime you go out... You will not be referred to by the racist term "Bule" or called a kaffir if you are not a Muslim.

And.. almost everyone speaks English and booze is cheap and plentiful increases

Also any increases to the British retirement will be paid, where as here in Indonesia they aren't,

I thought the US Social Security system had problems, quirky rules and incomprehensible procedures, but now I am thinking it could be worse. Social Security at least pays out the equitable benefits without regard to the choice of retirement geography. This is my year to start on the dole, so my radar is up when anyone brings up retirement.

 

[Smallworld]

In your opinion are there "better" places in Europe to retire? If you want to answer, what are some things that keep you in Indonesia?

Daniel, to shortly put it yes there are. But which one place to choose would depend on each person individual needs.
What sort of life: a village, a small town or a city, lakes, mountains, sea, rivers? The only downside I can see is the need to learn new language and that most of the Europe is cold during winter which may put off many people who wish to retire in a warm country (not HOT and very humid).

But as for cost of living ... YES there are places in Europe where you don't have to pay your arm and leg to get some living space, food and medications.

What keeps me in Indonesia is: my wife. My wife's family has got this traditional way of thinking she will take over of family businesses, her social network is here for her not only friends but a huge family circle as well not to count all the business partners and acquaintances . To stay and support her parents and grow their businesses which she will later on pass to our children. In Indonesia she is someone important (that is how she feels) in UK she is no one. If you have by any chance seen movie "cek toko sebelah" then you will know what I am talking about.

 

[Davita]

It's a gamble. A calculated risk. Project developers and businesses will weigh the potential of profits against the risks. Simple.

Without anyone willing to make the gamble, developing countries like Indonesia will never have any FDI. As a matter of fact, that's the role of development agencies and banks, to decrease the risks to the investors.

His question really isn't unique, in not so many words (or more words), it's a common sentiment that I'm experiencing more and more this last 2-3 years. I've just finished a circuit of SE Asia conferences in November/early December, and the topic of my talks were the different opportunities that those willing to be creative in the business model can take advantage of in Indonesia. And I can tell that I have to work much harder to convince people now than in 2011-2013.

Of course I'm not saying there's nothing good about Indonesia. Obviously many of you guys are finding it.

As Rabbit says all investment is risk/reward related....but there needs to be a level playing field even so. Indonesia doesn't help itself getting the Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) it wants, and needs, to grow as it should given its bounty. Some in Gov't, like Jokowi and Sri Mulyani, clearly identify that but some xenophobic politicos/administrators thwart those ideas and everything flip-flops. No Indonesian government institution appears to collaborate with each other. There is no standard and investors should, at the very least, expect policies, once established, to be maintained.

Nobody asks for guarantees...but the risk/reward status in RI is low due to this instability...which is detrimental to the Indonesian economy and the people's welfare.

 

[Daniel50]

His question really isn't unique, in not so many words (or more words), it's a common sentiment that I'm experiencing more and more this last 2-3 years. I've just finished a circuit of SE Asia conferences in November/early December, and the topic of my talks were the different opportunities that those willing to be creative in the business model can take advantage of in Indonesia. And I can tell that I have to work much harder to convince people now than in 2011-2013.

So what are some things that have changed in your opinion? I know a businessman and he says Americans and Europeans are quite hesitant to invest here as they want more certainty but people from China are willing to invest regardless. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Daniel50]

Daniel, to shortly put it yes there are. But which one place to choose would depend on each person individual needs.
What sort of life: a village, a small town or a city, lakes, mountains, sea, rivers? The only downside I can see is the need to learn new language and that most of the Europe is cold during winter which may put off many people who wish to retire in a warm country (not HOT and very humid).

But as for cost of living ... YES there are places in Europe where you don't have to pay your arm and leg to get some living space, food and medications.

What keeps me in Indonesia is: my wife. My wife's family has got this traditional way of thinking she will take over of family businesses, her social network is here for her not only friends but a huge family circle as well not to count all the business partners and acquaintances . To stay and support her parents and grow their businesses which she will later on pass to our children. In Indonesia she is someone important (that is how she feels) in UK she is no one. If you have by any chance seen movie "cek toko sebelah" then you will know what I am talking about.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. It sounds like you guys are pretty rooted here. I have not seen "cek toko sebelah". I don't think there are any English subtitles for this so I would not get much out of it. I have heard several family members saw it and enjoyed it.

 

[Jarno]

So what are some things that have changed in your opinion? I know a businessman and he says Americans and Europeans are quite hesitant to invest here as they want more certainty but people from China are willing to invest regardless. Any thoughts on this?

Most likely Americans and Europeans see the lack of regulation as threat while the Chinese see it as an opportunity.

 

[Daniel50]

Most likely Americans and Europeans see the lack of regulation as threat while the Chinese see it as an opportunity.

Yes you could be right. I know rabbit_39 wrote it is much more difficult to convince people then in 2011 to 2013. I was wondering if he, or someone knows what might have changed? It is not like there was a lot of certainty 2011-2013 was there?

 

[Jarno]

Yes you could be right. I know rabbit_39 wrote it is much more difficult to convince people then in 2011 to 2013. I was wondering if he, or someone knows what might have changed? It is not like there was a lot of certainty 2011-2013 was there?

Well, the thing that has changed is that Jokowi doesn't belong to the inner circle that ruled the country since Suharto. Before that it was quite predictable what is and was going to happen. The ongoing struggle for power (between old and new) that currently shows its ugly face in the form of FPI, the mass demonstrations and whoever is backing it makes it a lot more uncertain. Once the shit hits the fan who knows which way the ball will roll.

 

[Davita]

Well, the thing that has changed is that Jokowi doesn't belong to the inner circle that ruled the country since Suharto. Before that it was quite predictable what is and was going to happen. The ongoing struggle for power (between old and new) that currently shows its ugly face in the form of FPI, the mass demonstrations and whoever is backing it makes it a lot more uncertain. Once the shit hits the fan who knows which way the ball will roll.

I absolutely agree with this analysis.
It is time for ALL Indonesians to determine their future...and not be intimidated by any religious and/or other zealots. Otherwise....the economic development for ALL Indonesians could have been bettered under 'socialistic' Dutch colonialism.

 

[Daniel50]

In this article he touched on what you indicated and adds, growing protectionism in the U.S., Europe and a slow down in China's economy.

https://forum.expatindo.org/showthread.php?1495-What-Keeps-People-In-Indonesia&p=23313