New laws- Government control

[harryopal1]

Just watching news regarding a whole gamut of new control laws. Gaol for a range of offences such as demonstrating without a permit, insulting the president or insulting the nation. And gaol for spreading Marxist Leninism. Not sure how that works if you are an academic teaching history or the nature of political systems. And the term "insult" could be interpreted to mean that any criticism of the president or the nation and you go to gaol.

I can imagine that there might immediately be an application to demonstrate against these new laws. And if that application is refused? Could be turbulent times ahead.

 

[Bob]

Just watching news regarding a whole gamut of new control laws. Gaol for a range of offences such as demonstrating without a permit, insulting the president or insulting the nation. And gaol for spreading Marxist Leninism. Not sure how that works if you are an academic teaching history or the nature of political systems. And the term "insult" could be interpreted to mean that any criticism of the president or the nation and you go to gaol.

I can imagine that there might immediately be an application to demonstrate against these new laws. And if that application is refused? Could be turbulent times ahead.

The following is on that subject

Indonesia’s new penal code takes effect, marking historic break with colonial law

Indonesia has begun enforcing its newly ratified penal code, replacing a Dutch-era criminal law that had governed the country for more than 80 years and marking a major shift in its legal landscape.

www.pbs.org

 

[Balifrog]

LGBT and gay sex allowed but communism not.....
History is hard to shake off...

 

[centurion]

LGBT and gay sex allowed but communism not.....
History is hard to shake off...

LGBT and gay sex is not allowed.

 

[Balifrog]

LGBT and gay sex is not allowed.

From the PBD article, it is NOT criminalized :

"Some advocates welcomed lawmakers' decision to drop a proposed article that would have criminalized gay sex, following opposition from civil society groups. The move was hailed as a rare positive outcome for Indonesia's LGBTQ community."

 

[centurion]

From the PBD article, it is NOT criminalized :

"Some advocates welcomed lawmakers' decision to drop a proposed article that would have criminalized gay sex, following opposition from civil society groups. The move was hailed as a rare positive outcome for Indonesia's LGBTQ community."

It is criminalized. This kind of activity is a sex out of wedlock, that is already criminalized.

 

[Balifrog]

It is criminalized. This kind of activity is a sex out of wedlock, that is already criminalized.

Well, you probably know better than the papers and lawiers.....
So, I am not going to waste time with you.
And TBH, in Bali nobody cares !

 

[jstar]

“In Bali nobody cares” is BS. There have been (anti-vice and illegal) raids over the years by vigilante neighborhood watch, some kind of self proclaimed militia to check if unmarried people were together. Obviously they didn’t dare to do that with tourists and in holiday destinations and accommodations.

The law only applies if a close family member (spouse, parent, child) files a complaint, which officials say won't happen with tourists. So that’s the reason tourists are ‘safe’. Money talks.

 

[Balifrog]

“In Bali nobody cares” is BS. There have been (anti-vice and illegal) raids over the years by vigilante neighborhood watch, some kind of self proclaimed militia to check if unmarried people were together. Obviously they didn’t dare to do that with tourists and in holiday destinations and accommodations.

The law only applies if a close family member (spouse, parent, child) files a complaint, which officials say won't happen with tourists. So that’s the reason tourists are ‘safe’. Money talks.

Concerns only muslims IMO...

And in 8 years presence I never heard about any case like that.

And the second paragraph limits the law a lot. Even for locals...

 

[Bob]

Concerns only muslims IMO...

And in 8 years presence I never heard about any case like that.

And the second paragraph limits the law a lot. Even for locals...

Don't underestimate how traditional most Hindu and Christian culture is in especially the rural parts of the country.

 

[Balifrog]

Don't underestimate how traditional most Hindu and Christian culture is in especially the rural parts of the country.

Fully agree for the Hindu part, they are rather fanatic, same as the other side..(my companion is Hindu, as well as all her family). I once commented on the silliness of spending every 7 months for Galungan.... Mama Mia, the reaction shocked me....
No clue about Christians, except in the US where they are rather excessive as well...

 

[centurion]

Well, you probably know better than the papers and lawiers.....
So, I am not going to waste time with you.
And TBH, in Bali nobody cares !

Here I explain as to five-year old. Sex out of wedlock is not allowed in any case. Gay sex is a sex out of wedlock. So, gay sex is not allowed.

 

[centurion]

Concerns only muslims IMO...

And in 8 years presence I never heard about any case like that.

And the second paragraph limits the law a lot. Even for locals...

Don't underestimate the Bali governor. He has a plethora of funny ideas.

 

[Balifrog]

Don't underestimate the Bali governor. He has a plethora of funny ideas.

I know...
Subway, expressway over the sea, electric tram, second airport, quality tourist only...

The 25k meal warungs are full of quality, high spending tourists...

The last idea, asking proof of income to tourist in order to keep out the cheap ones !

Questions Raised Over Bali’s Plans Make Tourists' Bank Statement Checks Mandatory

Bali’s Governor Wayan Koster has announced plans to check the financial status of all foreigners arriving on the island.

thebalisun.com

Oops, off topic...

 

[centurion]

The last idea, asking proof of income to tourist in order to keep out the cheap ones !

Questions Raised Over Bali’s Plans Make Tourists' Bank Statement Checks Mandatory

Bali’s Governor Wayan Koster has announced plans to check the financial status of all foreigners arriving on the island.

thebalisun.com

Oops, off topic...

This last idea would require declaring Bali independent republic. Provincial government is not in charge in immigration policy and for 60 days visa it is required to submit monthly statements at application. Not to mention they cannot collect even the tourist tax as the Airport authorities or immigration will not do their job for them.

And second, one who can pay 1000 or more USD for ticket to Bali for sure has some funds.

 

[Balifrog]

nd second, one who can pay 1000 or more USD for ticket to Bali for sure has some funds.

Hmmmm....
From what I see around here, "some" have funds.
Really rich people don't come to Bali !

 

[harryopal1]

Whether it's rich or really rich I think what is wanted are tourists who stay in $300 a night hotels, hire chauffered cars and pay for packaged tours.

 

[Bob]

Fully agree for the Hindu part, they are rather fanatic, same as the other side..(my companion is Hindu, as well as all her family). I once commented on the silliness of spending every 7 months for Galungan.... Mama Mia, the reaction shocked me....
No clue about Christians, except in the US where they are rather excessive as well...

You should travel some in eastern Indonesia. There are some wonderful areas to visit. And you'd get an idea of what Christian areas are like.
About everything's excessive in the US now.

 

[jstar]

Whether it's rich or really rich I think what is wanted are tourists who stay in $300 a night hotels, hire chauffered cars and pay for packaged tours.

Those are the Chinese tourists. It’s just a shame the organizers negotiate $50 room rates, own the (Chinese) restaurants and have their own staff and cheap bus services.

The only thing that is making the locals (some) money, is when the tourists are dropped off at Coco or Pepito. (Supermarkets.)

 

[jstar]

You should travel some in eastern Indonesia. There are some wonderful areas to visit. And you'd get an idea of what Christian areas are like.
About everything's excessive in the US now.

North Sulawesi is much more telling. We are complaining about the mosques but quite some family in law say it’s not so different with the churches. Religion is extremely important in this country. And the majority decides what you should do and hear.