Zero-dollar tours....a new form of tourism

[jstar]

Quite interesting what we see happening in Bali; there have been big efforts to increase the amount of tourists. But it seems now the average tourist spends much less than what (s)he did in the past.

The Japanese, quite wealthy compared to other countries, are practically gone (a bit of an exaggeration but you get my point). The amount of Russian visitors seem to have stagnated. Quite a lot of Indian tourists visit the island nowadays. But obviously the Chinese tourists on the island have become the largest group. The amounts are so big that the resorts and hotels can be forced in agreeing to bottom prices.

But what's more; the tour operators which are owned by Chinese, have their own touring bus service, make the groups visit selected Chinese restaurants, have them 'voluntary' shop at huge outlet centers and silk stores (you can guess who owns them and where the silk is produced), and drop off the tourists at supermarkets in Jimbaran where they can pay with WeChat (a Chinese payment app).

This has happened in other South East Asian countries as Thailand as well. So it seems the local economy and people do not benefit a lot from this relatively new type of 'rob Peter to pay Paul' setup.

 

[El_Goretto]

Wow, that's quite scary... But maybe people feel more at ease doing tourism in an environment they feel safe (probably why they choose tours in the first place). Maybe they think they won't be scammed by Chinese tour operators, Chinese restaurants, etc.

 

[scouser59]

Ya , bali is a low rent destination now , im pretty sure most of the hotels will struggle to make a profit at the lower end, where some chinese guests have been paying as little as 15 k per night , which I imagine wouldn't even cover electricity . That wont last !

 

[Daniel50]

Well, people need to try to provide for themselves and their families. This could set up some resentment towards the "Chinese" by some locals. I also believe there are/were some other negative thoughts/beliefs/stereotypes about Chinese tourists.........not spending money......rude.....I don't know what else. But on a personal level, using generalizations, I would probably take some stingy tourists over the drunken party tourists in some other areas of Bali. But local people also need to benefit from the tourism.

 

[Balifrog]

Same thing happens in Thailand since years. The government has taken some actions against it (based on tax evasion and working without W.P.) but than its the Tourist Authorities of Thailand that complains it will chase Chinese tourists away, and will make their annual target number look bad.....

Personally I cant stand the Chinese (well 90% of them) and do avoid them like the plague.

 

[Daniel50]

Personally I cant stand the Chinese (well 90% of them) and do avoid them like the plague.

Why?

 

[Balifrog]

Why?

I have lived / worked in HKG for 8 years, and seen the ever increasing arrivals of mainlanders.

Rude, noisy, disgusting table manners, no idea about queing, you name it.....
As soon they have a bit of money they become completely arrogant as well....

Honkies are a bit better educated, but still.... 8 years among them has used up all my patience.

Ask any taxidriver, waiter, hotel lobby staff, plane cabin crew....what they think about mainland Chinese !

 

[Jamu]

I don't have any issue with the nationality of tourists to Bali, however I would question the wisdom of promoting Bali to nationalities who tend to come on the so-called zero dollar package tours. I think the new governor realizes there is such a thing as quality (as in spend per person per day) over quantity (pure tourist visits), but maybe it's already too late. Also, living near Ubud, I can't stand the very large tourist buses these visitors use, which clog the narrow streets and cause macet from hell.

 

[jstar]

Rude, noisy, disgusting table manners, no idea about queing, you name it.....
As soon they have a bit of money they become completely arrogant as well....

Eh, ever been to Jakarta? I can tick off most of those. And look what's happening in resorts in Turkey and in Egypt...And in Bali the people who I see not behaving well have my own skin color.

I think what you're describing is the development and evolution of a third world country society. Esp. with their nouveaux riches.

If you look at the Chinese communities in Singapore and Malaysia for instance, you see a very different picture.



Mass tourism always brings turmoil and issues. But in this case, the locals are being left out; the money does not stay in Bali.
.

 

[waarmstrong]

I guess in some people's assessments the recently prosporuos Chinese are the new Ugly Americans.

 

[harryopal1]

President Widodo has just given a speech emphasizing the need to increase tourism to help Indonesia's economy and China is a country to be targeted for a major lift in Chinese visitors.

Tourism is a major income earner for most countries these days and of course it does provide much needed employment. That said there are serious negatives. One of these is that so much of the cash flow relates to foreign owned enterprises. Another important issue that is often ignored is loss of access for indigenous citizens to waterfront and beach areas as major hotel groups see these areas as theirs and often employ security guards to keep unwanted locals away.

On the topic of political leaders clearly addressing national issues I was very impressed with the Singaporean Prime Minister, Lee Hieng Loong's speech at a national day rally yesterday. "Social mobility is more important than inequality, and Singapore must not allow social stratification to harden.... "

It was a very well considered and delivered speech aimed at maintaining national cohesion. It would be a pleasant change to hear an Australian Prime Minister deliver an outline for the future in such clear and positive form.

 

[El_Goretto]

I have lived / worked in HKG for 8 years, and seen the ever increasing arrivals of mainlanders.

Rude, noisy, disgusting table manners, no idea about queing, you name it.....
As soon they have a bit of money they become completely arrogant as well....

Honkies are a bit better educated, but still.... 8 years among them has used up all my patience.

Ask any taxidriver, waiter, hotel lobby staff, plane cabin crew....what they think about mainland Chinese !

Ugly stereotypes and generalizations are a slippery slope.

If all Australians or French were judged by some of those less refined samples found in Bali, I am sure you would think it to be ridiculous.

Also, keep in mind that some of our members may have family in mainland China whom I'm sure would not only take offense at your comments but could also prove you wrong.

 

[scouser59]

Unfortunately, as a resort area becomes "too cheap" it attracts the wrong sort people, eg the costa del sol in spain , the canaries etc , high season used to be populated by a large number of drunks , fights were common , not something you wanna see on holiday imho.
Bali is cheaper, I stay away from kuta in the evening .

 

[El_Goretto]

Reminds me of a funny story.

A couple years ago, we went to Bali and rewarded our maid for her hard work by taking her with us.

We figured she'd be interested about bule nightlife, her being 19yo and all, so one night we took her to see a club in Legian.

It was her first time going to such place and she was mesmerized. That is until a group of rowdy OZ highschoolers really got the party started by going around on the dance floor with a life like strap-on sticking out of the zipper. Even worse, she didn't catch on immediately that it was not a real appendage.

I was so embarrassed as this was not the kind of image of Westerners I wanted to give her but at the same time extremely amused at the awkward situation.

 

[Jaime C]

There are lots of mainland Chinese that are normal tourists. You’ll always get some bad behavior, of course. The last 5 years, I’ve seen lots of Chinese tourists on package deals just ruin places. I’ve seen this in Malaysia, Vietnam, and to a smaller degree, Bali.

One strange thing I noticed, was at breakfast in BKI. Day after day, the Chinese tourists would heap their plates with food, and then leave without eating half of it. I can understand if you don’t like a dish, so you don’t eat it. To do the same thing day after day, and waste so much food seems criminal. The staff were painfully aware of the behavior.

 

[dafluff]

The local newspaper has this story on the front page for 2 days in a row now. Basically about tourist who do not spend enough money, or worse, spend money only in shops/hotels/restaurants that are owned by the tour company, hence no value to the economy. Even the governor put in his 2 cents.

I think this is the direct result of government tourism targets that only look at number of arrivals, and nothing else. Hopefully there will be meaningful progress on this, but as with anything else here, it is usually a flash in the pan, then nothing happens.

 

[jstar]

It's more than bad behavior to ruin a place though Jaime. I've seen exactly the same done by Russian tourists in Southern Turkish and Egyptian Red Sea resorts. They have created an amazing bad name for themselves, mainly by plundering the (breakfast) buffets and not eating it. Obviously many groups have built a rather bad name in certain parts of the world (British in Greece and Spain, Dutch in Belgium and France, Australians in Bali, etc. etc.).

And of course the concept of 'zero income' trips with mandatory attendance of meetings and shopping sessions (to buy carpets in Turkey, subscribe to time sharing in Spain, purchase household appliances like vacuum cleaners in Germany) is already quite old.

But going back to the concept of moving and keeping all money and having it flow back, by monopolizing and owning the complete process (transportation, food & dining, shopping); now that is quite new. I think that's rather unique to the Chinese tourist industry, I haven't seen it before.

 

[snpark]

Don't worry Dubai has the same problem with Brits, all coupon cutters from The Sun staying in the Burj for $300 a week getting plastered at the buffet then getting arrested and moaning to the Daily Mail

Like Tenerife, Lanzarote in the 90's
Cheap airfares are to blame, uneducated people travelling with no respect or manners
Like some of the bule in Jakarta, raja minyak etc who think just because they have a few $ (sometimes literally ONLY a few $) that they are higher up than the "Asian" next to them, not realising just exactly WHO that Asian is (sometimes a real billionaire / daughter of a General, owner of a big company etc etc)

Just be respectful, you might win the fight against the bar man inside, but by the time they drag you outside, 100 of his uncles from the kampung are ready to help you "get home"
Mind your way down those concrete steps in the fire escape too! They can be slippery!

 

[Chiron]

Same sort of issues with the mega cruise ships. We've taken a few cruises, and they're not all bad. However, if you stuff 5000 people on a floating hotel, where half the rooms are sold at deep discounts, you're going to run into a few people who spoil it for the rest of the passengers. I've witnessed some pretty crude behavior in this select group of people. They seem to be the same sort of "coupon cutters" that @snpark is referring to.

We've now become quite picky about cruises, and are more inclined to have other types of vacations nowadays. The value proposition is just not there anymore.

 

[snpark]

BTW Bali could or should follow the lead of Boracay (Philippines) and CLOSE the whole island for 6 months to clean, refurbish, build infrastructure etc, then reopen but limited number of tourists, hotels etc etc even strict rules for the beach, drinking, smoking etc

Now Thailand thinking to do the same for Maya Beach (Kho Phi Phi) (Famous for the movie The Beach) and close to clean up all the cr4p and reopen but with limits