WNA, wife sponsored Kitap, working without IMTA in PMA

[Bad_azz]

I think you will have more people joining you in the case if you clear up some small details as follows;

1. Who will be paying for the cost? Are you shouldering everything?
2. If the cost is to be shared, how much is the estimated total cost?
3. And how is it going to be shared? Equally among those who have joined the fight?

I would think of it not as a fight, rather as a persistent pushing for clear legislation to be enacted legitimately.

 

[Bad_azz]

No, not you. But I understand Atlantis is keeping that possibility open, others might as well.

I am considering it, not just yet as I still have some ties to the UK.

 

[Dave70]

I am considering it, not just yet as I still have some ties to the UK.

Yes, keeping possibilities open... would have been easier if Indonesia allows dual citizenship.

 

[Banana72]

Maybe it's just wishful thinking but I am just wishing for the government to really let ex-wnis and mix marriage couples to work without imta (at the very least with family business). That $1200/year fee is such a ripoff in my opinion...with us paying it without knowing where it goes.

 

[dannyboy]

I could understand why the $1200 is demanded by the gov... Assuming that the company could get an RPTKA and IMTA for the ex-WNI or spouse KITAP/S holder but decided not to, in order to save money.

But what if the WNA or the company that he/she is planning to work for couldn't fulfill the requirement for RPTKA or IMTA? What if the WNA is not in any way more skilled than the local workers (as per RPTKA requirement)? Does it prevent them then from working to fulfill the family responsibility?

 

[Dominique]

Things just got way more interesting, Imigrasi have seized my passport and opened a full scale investigation.

Besides that, I also found out about ministry regulation Hukum Dan Hak 27 / 2014, in article 28 it actually says that even holder of spouse sponsored KITAS/P need RPTKA.

Ongoing...I'll update as the drama unfolds. If anybody has good advice, it is more than welcome!

Hi,

I think there is a blur part in the set of laws. You have a wife sponsored KITAP, granted for family reunion. It does not say that you may not work, but the regulation on TKA says that any foreigner working in indonesia must have a work permit.
I have also tried to object about the need for KITAS for myself, being the managing director and one of the shareholders of the company, based on the laws you have indicated. No they replied, you still need a KITAS.
The reason why I did not object any farther is two fold :
1/ it is easier to do just what they say, even though you can't find any legal background in support for what they claim.
2/ I have been to court already, with a very expensive lawyer, though for a radically different reason. I will never do that, never ever again. For that particular case, I was perfectly in my right, and had (me, not the lawyer) all legal background in support for my claim. I suppose I was still innocent at the time, and thought that only going to court would prove to the "world" that I wan't being just another arrogant foreigner trying to by-pass the law. But what I found out is that there is no justice at court, just a challenge between judges and prosecutors as to whom will rip you off most before having to deliver a "justice decision". In the end it cost the company a fortune, a no-one ever admitted that no fault had been made.

I invite you to take this extremely seriously. Being right is not necessarily enough to defend yourself, and if the problem is just that 2 different laws may come into contradiction one against another, you will not win. The recent reaction of imigrasi is a sign in that direction : rather than give you right from their point of view, and thus suggest that manpower could be wrong, they will soon find out that you are the one at fault.
Please just give it up, and don't risk to be eventually expelled and declared persona non grata in Indonesia, it's really not worth it.

 

[dannyboy]

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news...bill-on-job-creation-what-we-know-so-far.html

Btw, you can hope that this omnibus will be approved by the house of rep...(Though I personally doubt that it will be anytime soon)


Foreign workers

Indonesia will open more chances for expatriates to work in the country, especially in start-ups.

In the omnibus bill, foreign workers will also be allowed to work in Indonesia without a permit in positions that range from members of boards of directors and commissioners, and diplomatic or consular staff, to researchers and emergency engineers. Foreign workers in start-ups will also be exempted from work-permit requirements.
This compares with a previous stipulation in Article 42 of Law No. 13/2003 on Manpower that only exempts diplomatic and consular staff from work permits for foreign workers.

 

[jstar]

I think you refer to asosiasi percawinan campur, perca. Unfortunately they held a meeting with Imigrasi and manpower with a negative outcome. At that meeting, Manpower did not accept the legal reasoning and insisted we need a work permit. Is all covered in perca website and other threads in this forum. What I see missing in all of that is Manpower actually showing the laws on which they base their position.

I think there are some issues with that PERCA website, but this is the info from that meeting.

Meeting on 7 March 2015 with Manpower officers and PERCA:

A) Holders of KITAS/KITAP sponsored by spouse are allowed to work in the company during a full work permit, including having IMTA* .
B) Foreign workers cannot work in two different places (the same profession or different) EXCEPT investor / commissioner of PMA (If one works in three places the number of IMTA must also be 3).
C) If the activities of the foreign worker are in more than 1 place / province then he/she must have an inter-provincial IMTA .
D) Case: Husband / wife of a mixed marriage with cuisine chef background want to open a small café, with a small seating area is classified as a small business and does not require IMTA. When this business grows crowded and large, than it is necessary to have operating permits from the relevant authorities . When the businesses becomes a legal entity, then this foreign worker must have IMTA.
E) Case: Foreign husband of a mixed marriage is already retired. Enters Indonesia with VOA and becomes an investor in a hotel in Bali. Once in a while he does work behind the scenes such as checks on the financial controll department. With such conditions, it means the husband has been conducting work in Indonesia and must have KITAS and IMTA, because even not all the time he is working .
F) Case: A foreigner in a mixed marriage with KITAS sponsored by wife. Working from home and having online businesses. Does not have an office and legal business such as PT or PMA. Because this foreigner is conducting work even though he only works online so this foreigner must have the IMTA. This foreigner also cannot sign work contracts in Indonesia on behalf of himself .
G) Case: A foreigner who works and own business as an acupuncturist, must obtain an official recommendation from the local health office before doing business and work activities. If already have a recommendation from the relevant authorities, the foreign must have the IMTA to be able to work in Indonesia .
H) A foreigner holder of KITAS/KITAP sponsored by spouse is allowed to work in Indonesia. The need of IMTA is to be seen from what the job, workings for a legal entity or not, small or large business .

CONCLUSION:
Although the Immigration Act 6 of 2011 Article 61 states that the holder of a Limited Stay Permit and Permanent Stay Permit can work and/or do business to make ends meet for him/her and/ for his/her family, but still has to refer back to the Labour Law No. 13 year 2003 and Permenakertrans No. 12 year 2013, which essentially mean that a foreign worker in a mixed marriage is allowed to work without a work permit if in the informal sector, freelance or have a small business which is not a legal entity. When working in a legal entity then MUST have IMTA.

NB: Although the focus were the mixed married couples , these situations are also valid for foreigners holding KITAP sponsored by their Indonesian : mother , father , brother or sister.

*IMTA = Work Permit (this became Notification)

 

[dannyboy]

CONCLUSION:
Although the Immigration Act 6 of 2011 Article 61 states that the holder of a Limited Stay Permit and Permanent Stay Permit can work and/or do business to make ends meet for him/her and/ for his/her family, but still has to refer back to the Labour Law No. 13 year 2003 and Permenakertrans No. 12 year 2013, which essentially mean that a foreign worker in a mixed marriage is allowed to work without a work permit if in the informal sector, freelance or have a small business which is not a legal entity. When working in a legal entity then MUST have IMTA.

Note 1 : Although the focus were the mixed married couples , these situations are also valid for foreigners holding KITAP sponsored by their Indonesian : mother , father , brother or sister .

Note 2 : IMTA = Work Permit (this became Notification)

Thanks for this Jstar, do you have any idea how do you even interpret the "informal sector" or "freelance"? how do you even own a small business that is not a legal entity?

 

[jstar]

Good points, and if you work 'freelance', shouldn't you be able to generate invoices? And doesn't that make it formal again?

 

[Helpful Herbert]

In case F how could you get an IMTA? Who is going to be the sponsor - Google?

 

[Bad_azz]

Yes, keeping possibilities open... would have been easier if Indonesia allows dual citizenship.

The thing is , I read somewhere(yes, sorry no reference) that to get citizenship one has to already have a job here.......................................

 

[jstar]

In case F how could you get an IMTA? Who is going to be the sponsor - Google?

Yeah, that's somewhat of a stretch of course (euphemism of the century). And they don't even bother to check or try to control all these digital nomads here since they realize it's practically impossible to charge them with anything.

The thing is , I read somewhere(yes, sorry no reference) that to get citizenship one has to already have a job here.......................................

Normally you need an income of some sorts, but you can do a declaration and don't have all these concerns. See the thread 'how to obtain Indonesian Citzenship' where @DzulnSiti describes the process.

 

[Tinoz]

Hi,
I am an ex-WNI. Currently my KITAP is in the process at the immigration, as well as my husband's.

I have asked the immigration what kinds of work are we able to do without having to get a work permit. They said that small businesses were fine, like opening a warung. However that was that. They were not able to show me a written document that details what an ex-WNI KITAP holder and their foreign spouse KITAP holder are allowed and not allowed to do.

I then asked more questions. They told me to go to the Departemen Tenaga Kerja.

So I did, I went to the department in Depok (as my I live in Depok). Surprise, surprise, they said that they hadn't handled any work permits for foreign workers since 2018. They suggested me to go to the Kementrian Ketenagakerjaan Republik Indonesia.

An immigration agent my husband contacted said that we should be able to get work permits by going to the Dept of Man Power, as we can use my brother's business to sponsor us. I don't know how true this is.

Here I am today at the Kementrian. Was directed to 2 different offices before I was told that I had to go to the TKA section, which is at a corner of one of the buildings, near a parking lot.
Been waiting for my number to be called since 10 am. There are 1 lockets available, only 2 have officers assisting people. The room is full, and there are only 2 people being placed to assist
It is now after 1 PM, I am having some coffee at their cafeteria, my number is 42, they were calling number 22 just before 12 PM. The people who were waiting with me told me that it is better to come in early (at 8 or 8:30) to get your number. The lockets open at 9:30. If I don't get called today or if the information I receive today is not clear, I will come back tomorrow.

The same people also told me that usually the person who gives information at the locker doesn't know all aspects of TKA matters, hence the back and forth visits.

It seems the website of the office hasn't been updated with the current information. So it will be interesting to see what kind of information they will give me today.

 

[dafluff]

An immigration agent my husband contacted said that we should be able to get work permits by going to the Dept of Man Power, as we can use my brother's business to sponsor us. I don't know how true this is.

This is sort of true, but then your brother's business it the only place that you can work at.

It seems the website of the office hasn't been updated with the current information. So it will be interesting to see what kind of information they will give me today.

Ask them to provide actual law citation to support their assertion.

 

[Samoerai]

Has there been any update regarding a foreigner with Kitas-spouse can work in Indonesia. Is it still a 'grey area'?

In the Jakarta Post 13 Feb 2020 it is mentioned that the Omnibus was submitted to the House of Representatives and it says "Foreign workers must get written work permits except .... those working at start-ups, ...”

Have the raised questions been answered regarding e.g.

1. 'What is a small business?'
2. Can a small Indonesian PT (with capital 50 juta) on the name of WNI-spouse, hire a foreigner?

And has the Omnibus already passed the House of Representatives?

 

[snpark]

A small business is like a small family business with 1 or 2 employees like a warung
Working for someone else you will need an Imta etc
Yes you can be hired by a PT if you fit the criteria as a necessary category etc

 

[Samoerai]

A small business is like a small family business with 1 or 2 employees like a warung

Yes, that's my understanding. The husband (WNA) with Kitas-spouse and wife (WNI) can start a small business, but when the business gets bigger, let's say into a Indonesian PT on the name of the wife. How big is big? What is the limit for capital to put into the PT to be ably to ask for a IMTA for the husband, being a foreigner?

 

[centurion]

Yes, that's my understanding. The husband (WNA) with Kitas-spouse and wife (WNI) can start a small business, but when the business gets bigger, let's say into a Indonesian PT on the name of the wife. How big is big? What is the limit for capital to put into the PT to be ably to ask for a IMTA for the husband, being a foreigner?

The minimum subscribed and paid-in capital (modal ditempatkan dan disetor) for a local PT making the company eligible for sponsoring foreign workers is 1 billion Rp

 

[Samoerai]

The minimum subscribed and paid-in capital (modal ditempatkan dan disetor) for a local PT making the company eligible for sponsoring foreign workers is 1 billion Rp

Ok. Thanks for the reply. So, when a start up business like resto or hair salon grows into a Indonesian PT with capital 1 billion. Can the husband get an IMTA? In the context of all those restrictions on jobs from Manpower?