Why We Don’t Care About Our Health

[marcus]

... It is the same thing with drinking alcohol, beer, fine wine, Whisky, champagne in moderation.

In my view it is far from 'the same thing' or 'fine' . When you say something like that , we would appreciate if you give the reference from where you got it .

From https://www.expatindo.org/community/threads/alcohol-from-beverages-is-toxic.8008/ (World Health Organization)
[Alcohol is a toxic substance ... and has been classified as a Group 1 carcinogen by the International Agency for Research on Cancer decades ago – this is the highest risk group, which also includes asbestos, radiation and tobacco. Alcohol causes at least seven types of cancer ...
Risks start from the first drop
... the risk to the drinker’s health starts from the first drop of any alcoholic beverage ...]

 

[harryopal1]

In my view it is far from 'the same thing' or 'fine' . When you say something like that , we would appreciate if you give the reference from where you got it .

From https://www.expatindo.org/community/threads/alcohol-from-beverages-is-toxic.8008/ (World Health Organization)
[Alcohol is a toxic substance ... and has been classified as a Group 1 carcinogen by the International Agency for Research on Cancer decades ago – this is the highest risk group, which also includes asbestos, radiation and tobacco. Alcohol causes at least seven types of cancer ...
Risks start from the first drop
... the risk to the drinker’s health starts from the first drop of any alcoholic beverage ...]

"Risks start from the first drop
... the risk to the drinker’s health starts from the first drop of any alcoholic beverage ...]"

This could put you on the Hit List for the alcoholic beverages industry. Start wearing a disguise.

 

[pantaiema]

In my view it is far from 'the same thing' or 'fine' . When you say something like that , we would appreciate if you give the reference from where you got it .

From https://www.expatindo.org/community/threads/alcohol-from-beverages-is-toxic.8008/ (World Health Organization)
[Alcohol is a toxic substance ... and has been classified as a Group 1 carcinogen by the International Agency for Research on Cancer decades ago – this is the highest risk group, which also includes asbestos, radiation and tobacco. Alcohol causes at least seven types of cancer ...
Risks start from the first drop
... the risk to the drinker’s health starts from the first drop of any alcoholic beverage ...]

https://www.expatindo.org/community/threads/alcohol-from-beverages-is-toxic.8008/page-2 Post No#23

Should we assume that WHO health experts are more knowledgeable than health specialists in countries renowned for medical, health, nutrition research as well as strict food and drink regulations, such as those in Europe and the U.S.?

In Europe, Western and Eastern European countries, moderate alcohol consumption has been part of tradition for centuries, since ancient times, including among the Vikings and Romans.

In Asia, countries such as Japan (with sake), Korea (soju), and China (baijiu) have their own drinking cultures centered around national beverages.

Now, compare this with the life expectancy of populations in places where alcohol is banned or heavily restricted, like Indonesia. The difference itself is an evidence. Certainly, other factor also contribute, but at least it serves as evidence that drinking alcohol in moderation will not shorten your life expectancy.

Human health and anatomy are highly complex, and even today experts are still uncovering new findings. Just because an inherent benefit has not yet been identified does not mean it does not exist.

Many people who have tried will know the difference between eating red meat or a tender steak with red wine or beer compared to pairing it with water, or enjoying white wine, beer alongside fish and shellfish.

Certainly drinking clean water is better than consuming alcoholic drink, but this is simply stating the obvious since everyone knows that water is cheaper and abundant, at least everyone knows that it is good for your pocket. I can not blame WHO for their view about drinking alcohol, as less alcohol will mean more money will be available to provide basic sanitary, clean water, and to combat poverty. More money will be available for ordinary people pocket that could be used to buy medication or health treatment when needed.

Do you consume sugar or salt even though you know that avoiding them completely would be healthier? Do you ride your motorbike to go shopping or sightseeing, even though staying at home would reduce your risk of accidents? If your answer is yes, then why?

Did you watch James bond movie what is James Bond’s signature and favorite drink ? Did you watch UFC or other MMA event, are you aware that many MMA fighters drink alcohol. These people could take more than five people who just drink water.

This is Tom Aspinal a British UFC heavy weight champion sharing pint moment with mate Curtis Blade.

This is what he said: 'A beer makes everything feel better'

Verifying Device

The utilitarian principle shows that people constantly balance between enjoyment pleasure, happiness against potential pain, suffering, risks, and this has always influenced human decision-making. If we approach the issue from this perspective, the debate could go on endlessly.

Even religious leaders, the Pope, pastors, and priest. all of them consume alcohol in moderation. On the top of that 'Jesus' and his disciples also drink alcohol which suggests that drinking alcohol is not a sin.

 

[pantaiema]

"Risks start from the first drop
... the risk to the drinker’s health starts from the first drop of any alcoholic beverage ...]"

This could put you on the Hit List for the alcoholic beverages industry. Start wearing a disguise.
View attachment 5171

In ancient times, did the alcoholic beverages industry exist, and was it capable of influencing or deceiving kings and queens? If such proof were ever revealed, the one responsible might find himself under the guillotine

 

[marcus]

Should we assume that WHO health experts are more knowledgeable than health specialists in countries renowned for medical, health, nutrition research ...

I don't recommend anybody to assume just by reading one source of information . I did read many articles supporting what WHO states (see below) . Yes there are others saying a moderate consumption is not harmful . So when I saw you say that , I felt that I had to show people that it may not be true .

------------------------------------------

From https://www.nhs.uk/better-health/drink-less/ (National Health Service - UK's Government)
[Drink less alcohol ...
Stopping or drinking less alcohol can make a big difference to your health ...]

Does Drinking a Glass of Wine Have Health Benefits?

People have been drinking wine for thousands of years, and you may wonder if doing so offers any benefits. This article explains the health benefits of drinking wine, as well as its potential downsides.

www.healthline.com

From the reference above :
[According to the NIAAA-National Institutes of Health and the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (an USA's Government website), past research overestimates the benefits of moderate drinking, and current research indicates that even low levels of drinking have added risks ...]

What we know about the health impact of drinking a glass of wine a day

"The level of alcohol consumption that does not harm health is zero," says a review of dozens of studies conducted in recent years on the effect of light drinking. The 20 or so authors of the paper, and other experts, insist that "alcohol is carcinogenic from the first drink". In their view...

sciencemediacentre.es

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/13/well/mind/alcohol-health-effects.html

[Even a Little Alcohol Can Harm Your Health ...]

Bad news, red wine drinkers: alcohol is only ever bad for your health | Devi Sridhar

We needn’t be puritanical about having a drink, but we can no longer deny that it harms us, even in small quantities, says Devi Sridhar of the University of Edinburgh

www.theguardian.com

 

[jstar]

We all know what’s good and what’s bad. Of course I realize I will be healthier and probably live (somewhat) longer if I skip the coffee, alcohol, fat and soda’s. Am I willing to do that? Nope.

NB: Moving out of a big city as Jakarta or Bandung will also considerably improve your health.

 

[pantaiema]

We all know what’s good and what’s bad. Of course I realize I will be healthier and probably live (somewhat) longer if I skip the coffee, alcohol, fat and soda’s. Am I willing to do that? Nope.

NB: Moving out of a big city as Jakarta or Bandung will also considerably improve your health.

We’re all going to die anyway. There’s no clear proof that avoiding alcohol (In moderation) leads to a longer life, if anything, some evidence points the other way, though of course many other factors play a role. (See Post #23.) And let’s not forget the utilitarian philosophy of Jeremy Bentham and John Stuart Mill, which is still regarded as one of the most reasonable approaches to decision-making.

I don't recommend anybody to assume just by reading one source of information . I did read many articles supporting what WHO states (see below) . Yes there are others saying a moderate consumption is not harmful . So when I saw you say that , I felt that I had to show people that it may not be true .

------------------------------------------

From https://www.nhs.uk/better-health/drink-less/ (NHS UK)
[Drink less alcohol ...
Stopping or drinking less alcohol can make a big difference to your health ...]

Does Drinking a Glass of Wine Have Health Benefits?

People have been drinking wine for thousands of years, and you may wonder if doing so offers any benefits. This article explains the health benefits of drinking wine, as well as its potential downsides.

www.healthline.com

From the reference above :
[According to the NIAAA, past research overestimates the benefits of moderate drinking, and current research indicates that even low levels of drinking have added risks ...]

What we know about the health impact of drinking a glass of wine a day

"The level of alcohol consumption that does not harm health is zero," says a review of dozens of studies conducted in recent years on the effect of light drinking. The 20 or so authors of the paper, and other experts, insist that "alcohol is carcinogenic from the first drink". In their view...

sciencemediacentre.es

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/13/well/mind/alcohol-health-effects.html

[Even a Little Alcohol Can Harm Your Health ...]

Bad news, red wine drinkers: alcohol is only ever bad for your health | Devi Sridhar

We needn’t be puritanical about having a drink, but we can no longer deny that it harms us, even in small quantities, says Devi Sridhar of the University of Edinburgh

www.theguardian.com

Red wine or beer should not be treated as medicine, so no sensible person would drink red wine solely for its supposed heart benefits. People drink it because it offers something they cannot get from plain water. Research findings on the health effects of red wine are mixed. But there is fact that suggest that people living in the countries where wine drinking is part of the culture tend to live longer. Just look the notable example in Greece and other Mediterranean region, they have been drinking wine for thousands of years, and it’s deeply woven into their culture. Similarly to rice wine (sake) in Japan.

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/medical/ask-the-experts/red-wine-and-your-heart#:~:text=Published%3A,it%20with%20the%20Mediterranean%20diet.

What are the benefits of drinking red wine?

Red wine may have several health benefits, according to research. Learn about the benefits, risks, evidence, and how much to drink here.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

Top Science-Backed Health Benefits of Drinking Red Wine

We break down several red wine benefits when consumed in moderation. From immunity to eye and heart health, here's why red wine can be healthy.

www.realsimple.com

Drinking red wine for heart health? Read this before you toast

The connection between red wine and heart health might not be what you think. Here's what science has to say.

www.heart.org

Drink Alcohol Only in Moderation - MyHealthfinder | odphp.health.gov

If you choose to drink, it’s important to have only a moderate (limited) amount — that’s up to 1 drink in a day for women and up to 2 drinks in a day for men. And some people shouldn’t drink at all.

odphp.health.gov

 

[marcus]

... There’s no clear proof that avoiding alcohol (In moderation) leads to a longer life,

Maybe not a proof but strong evidences , from what I did read .

The lack of a proof (if there is no one) , in my view , is because any study cost money and one that will be against big businesses will have big difficulties to be financed/sponsored . And when such study is done , like 'The China Study' (see details below), it does not get much attention from the media .

In the 'other hand' , there are many 'studies'/propaganda in favor of big businesses .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study : ... The authors conclude that people who eat a predominantly whole-food, vegan diet—avoiding animal products as a source of nutrition, including beef, pork, poultry, fish, eggs, cheese, and milk, and reducing their intake of processed foods and refined carbohydrates—will escape, reduce, or reverse the development of numerous diseases ...

if anything, some evidence points the other way ...

Lets use common sense :

Alcohol is toxic (same as poison) , so how can we believe it is not bad for our health ?

------------------------

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/toxic : Toxic : adjective ; 1 · containing or being poisonous material ...

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3959903/ (an USA's official website)
Poster's Note : Information not in original order
[...Toxic and other adverse effects of alcohol on organs and tissues in humans are largely a consequence of its metabolism to acetaldehyde, and associated formation of reactive oxygen and nitrogen species, depletion of co-factors (e.g., NAD+), and impairment in energy homeostasis ...

The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that 4.5% of the global burden of disease and injury, and 4% of all deaths worldwide are attributable to alcohol . Alcohol is the leading risk factor for death among males aged 15-59, particularly in Eastern Europe ...]

 

[gemima]

There is , from what I did read .

Lets use common sense :

Alcohol is toxic (same as poison) , so how can we believe it is not bad for our health ?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/toxic : Toxic : adjective ; 1 · containing or being poisonous material ...

Thanks for the health lecture. I will continue to drink alcohol in moderation and continue enjoying my life.
You live in Jakarta? You know the air is also toxic here?

I feel like there are more important things to be worrying about - arguing with internet strangers is not doing you much good either.

 

[Balifrog]

Alcohol is the leading risk factor for death among males aged 15-59, particularly in Eastern Europe ...]

Hahaha..... Of course, if you down a liter of vodka per day.....

 

[jstar]

if you down a liter of vodka per day....

 

[pantaiema]

The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that 4.5% of the global burden of disease and injury, and 4% of all deaths worldwide are attributable to alcohol . Alcohol is the leading risk factor for death among males aged 15-59, particularly in Eastern Europe ...]

I haven’t read the full report, but from what I gather, the study doesn’t seem to distinguish between moderate drinkers and heavy drinkers. If that’s the case, then again it’s just stating the obvious.

If alcohol is truly as harmful as claimed, then how do we explain the fact that people in the Mediterranean region and in Japan, where wine and alcohol have been part of the culture for thousands of years, enjoy some of the longest life expectancy in the world?

Marcus (and even the WHO) also haven’t addressed some basic questions that were asked before:

• Do you consume sugar, juice from fruits, or soft drinks to some extent? They’re full of sugar, which isn’t good for blood sugar levels or your tooth. There is drinking water out there cheaper and then abundant.
• Do you consume salt or salty foods?
• Do you go shopping or sightseeing by car, motor bike even though staying home would technically reduce your risk of accidents?

Bonus questions:
For those in Indonesia who have chosen vegetarianism simply because health experts recommended it, are they actually growing their own fruits and vegetables, or just buying them at the market? If it’s the latter, then how can they be sure what kinds of fertilizers or pesticides were used?

Do you always cook your own meals, or do you eat out occasionally? If you also do the latter, then how can you be sure the ingredients being used is safe to consume, the raw materials being used are free from dangerous fertilizers, pesticide, especially in Indonesia, where the Food Safety Authority doesn’t seem to be fulfilling its role effectively? It has been reported many times that some 'Bakso' (Meat ball soup) in Indonesia have been mixed with Borax, and dipped into formalin to make it chewy, tasty and long lasting. This is far more toxic than alcohol.

Why people keep eating, doing the things where there is a healthier and cheaper, saver alternative ?

To me the answer is very obvious.

 

[Hawk256]

Why people keep eating, doing the things where there is a healthier and cheaper, saver alternative ?

Most people I know feed their pets healthier foods than they feed themselves.

 

[marcus]

... arguing with internet strangers is not doing you much good either.

It would be true if I think negatively . Not true because I write here just to 'exercise' my brain (if in addition , I help few others , even better) .

 

[marcus]

If alcohol is truly as harmful as claimed, then how do we explain ...

Marcus (and even the WHO) also haven’t addressed some basic questions ...
Do you consume sugar, ...Do you consume salt or salty foods?Do you go shopping or sightseeing by car, ...
For those in Indonesia who have chosen vegetarianism ....
Do you always cook your own meals, or do you eat out occasionally? If you also do the latter, then ...

As usual , you write too much without focusing on the main point I asked you .

Of course there are many other subjects related with 'Health' : food/non-alcoholic beverage , physical exercise , sleep , pollution , pesticide , food additive , ...

Answering you briefly :
I specifically try to avoid as much as possible sugar , salt ; don't drink juices neither soft drinks (drink & cook with mineral water - drink only 100 ml of coffee per day in the morning) , stay home mostly , I am vegetarian (cook myself at low temperature - but of course I know they have pesticide) , take food supplements/probiotics , exercise every day , have a lot of plants to decrease the pollution and heat , sleep well in a dark & silent place , brush my teeth after any meal (breakfast + early dinner only) , ...

 

[pantaiema]

As usual , you write too much without focusing on the main discussion .

Answering you briefly :
I specifically try to avoid as much as possible sugar , salt ; don't drink juices neither soft drinks (drink & cook with mineral water - drink only 100 ml of coffee per day in the morning) , stay home mostly , I am vegetarian (cook myself at low temperature - but of course I know they have pesticide) , take food supplements/probiotics , exercise every day , have a lot of plants to decrease the pollution and heat , sleep well in a dark & silent place , brush my teeth after any meal (breakfast + early dinner only) , ...

Well the same thing as usual, you do not answer the questions which were triggered from your own previous answers. Those questions are actually rhetorical questions.

The responses to these questions will help people understand why some individuals appear not to care about their health. As reflected from my previous comments, I personally, don’t believe that many people out there don't care to their own health. Ignoring certain aspects of health, where there are other priorities or for personal reason doesn’t necessarily mean that they don’t care about their own health.

You have added more information, so I could provide more commentary:
If you’re able to do all those things, good for you. But not everyone has the time, resources, or privilege to live that way. If you see people are not doing what you are doing, it does not mean they do not care their health. Choosing a different lifestyle doesn’t necessarily mean someone is neglecting their health as people have different priorities and personal circumstance

Living according to a utilitarian approach doesn’t equate to ignoring health either. Many people consciously balance enjoyment and pleasure against potential risks or discomfort. For example, consuming alcohol in moderation, sharing dessert (or other type of comfort food, guilty pleasure) with friends or eating street food occasionally might not be the healthiest option physically, but it can contribute to mental well-being and strengthen social connections. That, too, is an important part of overall health and life.

In short, health isn’t one-size-fits-all. It exists on a spectrum where individuals make trade-offs between physical wellness, mental happiness, cultural traditions, and practical realities.

If someone in Indonesia were to focus exclusively on physical health, they would essentially need to grow all their own fruits and vegetables, never eat out, and avoid exposure to pollution or traffic-related stress. But in doing so, they risk overlooking mental and social well-being, social bond.

Similarly those who are just focusing on on physical health, they should totally stop consuming sugar, salt or any other product that contain these stuffs. Keep in mind you could survive without consuming any additional sugar, salt. But many will consider it as a very extreme approach to physical health.

 

[Balifrog]

You guys must be bloody bored to have time to waste on looooong posts like that ?