Westerner deported from Singapore for doing same day visa run

[Tupai Hitam]

Provided this even happened at all. Has anyone verified this story? I wouldn't just believe anything I'd read on Coconuts Jakarta.

Good point. The basis of the story is true. Man went to Singapore upon expiry of tourist visa, denied entry, sent back to Cengkareng and detained. But perhaps there is more to it than just that (note, however, that Singapore does sometimes deny entry to certain Westerners). The man in question was advised to have the video taken down, as publicity in any case involving Indonesian officialdom is invariably counterproductive. Usually better to be silent, respectful, contrite and find a solution. That video might not have helped him, as he remains incarcerated.

 

[Davita]

Is there ANY contributing media information on this case...I've searched and found nothing to corroborate the coconut story. Anybody help?

 

[fastpitch17]

Is there ANY contributing media information on this case...I've searched and found nothing to corroborate the coconut story. Anybody help?

The video was reported as being made by Sacha Stevenson, the one that makes the "How To Act Indonesian" vids. Supposedly a friend of hers. I doubt Coconuts would use her name to promote a fake story.

 

[William King]

Is there ANY contributing media information on this case...I've searched and found nothing to corroborate the coconut story. Anybody help?

Foreigner in detention after violating visa.

Hardly news, eh?

 

[HappyMan]

Based on that Tom Hanks movie... whatever it was called, I thought that the arrivals area of an international airport was not considered to be national soil... or is that only in America, in a movie? It makes some sense, as having the arrivals area as national soil would mean that any foreign national intending to apply for a VOA would be violating the immigration laws until they got their stamp. If it is true that the arrivals area is an "international area", then the guy would not be doing anything wrong just by arriving at an Indonesian airport and being denied a visa, right? I mean, he's not on Indonesian soil, so what did he do wrong by being denied a visa and hanging out not in the country?

Also, if the arrivals area is not international, then whether or not he has a stamp to show he entered Singapore seems like a pretty moot point when there is clear proof that he left the country... in the form of an immigration officer who witnessed him disembarking a plane from Singapore. I don't see the way immigration could spin this to say he did anything wrong. Personally, I'm the bloody minded type who would consider, depending on the detention center conditions, waiting around for Indonesia to buy my ticket back to the US.

 

[Jaime C]

Based on that Tom Hanks movie... whatever it was called, I thought that the arrivals area of an international airport was not considered to be national soil... or is that only in America, in a movie? It makes some sense, as having the arrivals area as national soil would mean that any foreign national intending to apply for a VOA would be violating the immigration laws until they got their stamp. If it is true that the arrivals area is an "international area", then the guy would not be doing anything wrong just by arriving at an Indonesian airport and being denied a visa, right? I mean, he's not on Indonesian soil, so what did he do wrong by being denied a visa and hanging out not in the country?

Also, if the arrivals area is not international, then whether or not he has a stamp to show he entered Singapore seems like a pretty moot point when there is clear proof that he left the country... in the form of an immigration officer who witnessed him disembarking a plane from Singapore. I don't see the way immigration could spin this to say he did anything wrong. Personally, I'm the bloody minded type who would consider, depending on the detention center conditions, waiting around for Indonesia to buy my ticket back to the US.

The Terminal?

I doubt Indonesia would buy you a ticket anywhere. Either the US embassy would "loan" you the money, or your ass would be tired of being in jail, and some friend or relative would pony the money up.

 

[atlantis]

I'm the bloody minded type who would consider, depending on the detention center conditions, waiting around for Indonesia to buy my ticket back to the US.

As Jaime said, Indonesia would not buy you a ticket for anywhere.

However, if you are unable to pay for your ticket, Imigrasi is legally entitled to detain you in any of their facilities up to 10 years, and this without a court trial.

The law however doesn't specify if, after the ten years, the ticket out of Indonesia is at the expense of the Indonesian State and I admit that I am a bit curious about it. If you intend to try, please come back and report in ten years to tell us the outcome.

 

[ratu_tuaq]

Based on that Tom Hanks movie... whatever it was called, I thought that the arrivals area of an international airport was not considered to be national soil... or is that only in America, in a movie? It makes some sense, as having the arrivals area as national soil would mean that any foreign national intending to apply for a VOA would be violating the immigration laws until they got their stamp. If it is true that the arrivals area is an "international area", then the guy would not be doing anything wrong just by arriving at an Indonesian airport and being denied a visa, right? I mean, he's not on Indonesian soil, so what did he do wrong by being denied a visa and hanging out not in the country?

Also, if the arrivals area is not international, then whether or not he has a stamp to show he entered Singapore seems like a pretty moot point when there is clear proof that he left the country... in the form of an immigration officer who witnessed him disembarking a plane from Singapore. I don't see the way immigration could spin this to say he did anything wrong. Personally, I'm the bloody minded type who would consider, depending on the detention center conditions, waiting around for Indonesia to buy my ticket back to the US.

I know that in Australia, you can be denied entry after arriving and before "crossing the border". For example, if the immigration staff believe you're going to contravene the rules and requirements of your particular visa (they find your CV in your bag, or contact numbers for employers in your phone, and they believe you're coming there to work but you've only got a tourist visa), or if you've ticked "I've been convicted of a criminal activity" on your incoming passenger card, and upon checking with your home country, the immigration staff decide you're someone they don't want in Australia, if said convictions have been too recent, too frequent or too violent.

At that point, you are told you have been "denied entry" to Australia and are not allowed to "cross the border" (ie they refuse to stamp your passport). Then you are kept in detention at the airport, and deported back to your home country.

So yes, to answer your question in a long-winded way, I believe that the arrivals area, prior to passing through immigration and getting your passport stamped, is not considered territory of that particular country.

 

[Puspawarna]

In 1990 or so, I was "detained" at the airport in Australia. But it was for boring reasons. Due to tropical storms, our flights from Hawaii to Bali got terribly screwed up and they ended up flying us through Sydney, where we had a very long layover. This was apparently a huge problem for Australian immigration officials, who had a planeload full of people with no permission to enter the country. We got big stamps that said "TWOV" (traveling without visa) in our passports and were sternly told NOT to leave the confines of the small area we were permitted to stay in.

 

[atlantis]

I thought that the arrivals area of an international airport was not considered to be national soil... or is that only in America, in a movie?

They are definitively part of the legal territory of a country and are only a pseudo extra territoriality. I think that the best example I could give you is that if you would be committing a crime within this zone, you would be arrested, prosecuted and tried by the officers of the country the airport is located.

It's only a legal fiction created by laws (and not in all countries) which allow someone to transit in an airport without a valid visa and, often, for a limited time.

 

[Davita]

When travelling to the USA from Vancouver (YVR) airport, you enter USA immigration at YVR airport before departure but after security. I guess, if denied entry, just turn around and go home.

They also have an immigration booth on the dock if arriving by pleasure boat to the USA San Juan Islands. It has a camera which transmits your picture and your passport details to an office somewhere and they send a code number that you record.
When arriving back to an immigration-dock in Vancouver you have to call on a smartphone to Victoria HQ and send a picture that you are at the dock...you then make a verbal customs declaration. I did hear of somebody sneaking drugs and they were caught. I probably look so innocent 'coz I've never been inspected and done that many times.... (crossed the border and moored my boat....not smuggled any dope...)

 

[PhilippeD]

They are definitively part of the legal territory of a country and are only a pseudo extra territoriality. I think that the best example I could give you is that if you would be committing a crime within this zone, you would be arrested, prosecuted and tried by the officers of the country the airport is located.

It's only a legal fiction created by laws (and not in all countries) which allow someone to transit in an airport without a valid visa and, often, for a limited time.

Since recently Canada ask to have a visa (free and received in less than 24 hour) for transit in an canadian airport. You can not just pass by anymore.

 

[jstar]

I think that is even the case in the UK; they have something called a transit visa.

 

[Davita]

Here is what I wrote on another forum about a year ago...maybe worth posting here to complement PhilippeD's post #32

Anyone contemplating visiting Canada soon, who previously were visa-exempt, should note the following link...How do I apply for an eTA for travel to Canada?

 

[Tupai Hitam]

as he remains incarcerated.

UPDATE: He's not being detained in any sort of cell - but cannot leave the airport. Cannot enter Indonesia and apparently lacks permission (and funds) to leave Indonesia. Mentions his brother provided funds for a ticket to leave on a KLM fight but something went wrong.

Contrary to advice to avoid drawing attention to himself, he has uploaded 13 videos (and counting) of life trapped inside Soekarno-Hatta Airport (Terminal 2?): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDiiNSWW5YQ

He records his daily weight-loss on the baggage scales. Seems to be sleeping on the floor of a small Lion Air baggage-handling office. Says Indonesian Immigration great and Lion Air great.

Situation much like the Tom Hanks movie. Watching his vlogs is like reading one of Dostoevsky's short stories of wretched pathos.

 

[Smallworld]

UPDATE: He's not being detained in any sort of cell - but cannot leave the airport. Cannot enter Indonesia and apparently lacks permission (and funds) to leave Indonesia. Mentions his brother provided funds for a ticket to leave on a KLM fight but something went wrong.
...

This whole situation seems to be artificial. Why he or his family hasn't contacted his own embassy?

 

[Davita]

This whole situation seems to be artificial. Why he or his family hasn't contacted his own embassy?

Agreed...this is sounding fishier by each post.
He must have left Indonesia...they stamp your passport at the airport departure point as leaving...so he must have exited legally.
The fact that Singapore denied entry...as others have said... meant it was his home (passport) country that needs to deal with the issue. Unless that country is in some turmoil....as in the Tom Hanks movie.
Indonesia shouldn't be concerned unless something else hasn't been disclosed and he was returned to Indonesia for that reason...therein is the real question.

 

[jstar]

his home (passport) country that needs to deal with the issue. Unless that country is in some turmoil....as in the Tom Hanks movie.
Indonesia shouldn't be concerned unless something else hasn't been disclosed and he was returned to Indonesia for that reason...therein is the real question.

Well, he has a rather strong Dutch accent (I would dare to say Rotterdam or Den Haag) so the turmoil has to be irrelevant if I'm right.

Someone who has such a grasp of Bahasa Indonesia, has been here for quite some time; let's face it. (You don't pick that up in your home country or during an extended vacation.) And then I would understand if the Indonesians would argue there can not be an entrance on Tourist Visa anymore. Esp. with the possible appearance of someone who is working in this country.

Good to hear something positive about Lion for once btw.

 

[Euc-]

What I found strange about his videos is that he is at the luggage carousels. Aren't those behind immigration meaning he is already in Indonesia?

I watched video #8, in which he says that Indonesian Immigration had told him that there was no problem for him to enter Indonesia if he would fly out and come right back. To me this doesn't make sense, as how would they check this? Why doesn't he get on a flight to KL/SIN, NOT go through immigration but stay in the air-side area of the airport, check-in online, print out the boarding pass and say to Indonesian immigration that he just arrived from his home country (Which obviously is the Netherlands, where they do not stamp the passports of citizens entering or leaving the country..)

I don't even understand why Indonesian immigration would care if he has an entry/exit stamp from Singapore, the important thing is that he LEFT Indonesian territory, which he did by flying to Singapore, wether he entered Singapore or not should be irrelevant. Unless there is something else going on he should simply be allowed back in.

 

[Euc-]

Well, he has a rather strong Dutch accent (I would dare to say Rotterdam or Den Haag) so the turmoil has to be irrelevant if I'm right.

Someone who has such a grasp of Bahasa Indonesia, has been here for quite some time; let's face it. (You don't pick that up in your home country or during an extended vacation.) And then I would understand if the Indonesians would argue there can not be an entrance on Tourist Visa anymore. Esp. with the possible appearance of someone who is working in this country.

Good to hear something positive about Lion for once btw.

Nederlander?

I believe the guy is a member of the infamous "bugils", and he spend more than half his life here. (Despite that he still has quite an accent indeed).