Hiroshima and Nagasaki

[harryopal1]

Thousands of Japanese are gathering to commemorate the dropping of atomic bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima 80 years ago. This is an important moment and should never be forgotten. However it is unfortunate that it seems many young Japanese are being educated with some Japanese schools omitting or softening the history of Japanese war crimes. Somewhere between 200,000 and 300,000 Chinese butchered in Nanking. An estimated 20 million victims in occupied countries with massacres, torture, rape, forced labour and killed by famine and disease directly resulting from Japanese occupation politices and war strategy.

Germany seems to have dealt more realistically with the reality of war crimes. Unfortunately Japan seems to focus more on it being the victim or war rather than acknowledging the appalling atrocities committed by Japanese forces.

It is so hard to reconcile the politeness, courtesy and decency of most Japanese against this terrible history.

 

[Shadrach]

Thousands of Japanese are gathering to commemorate the dropping of atomic bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima 80 years ago. This is an important moment and should never be forgotten. However it is unfortunate that it seems many young Japanese are being educated with some Japanese schools omitting or softening the history of Japanese war crimes. Somewhere between 200,000 and 300,000 Chinese butchered in Nanking. An estimated 20 million victims in occupied countries with massacres, torture, rape, forced labour and killed by famine and disease directly resulting from Japanese occupation politices and war strategy.

Germany seems to have dealt more realistically with the reality of war crimes. Unfortunately Japan seems to focus more on it being the victim or war rather than acknowledging the appalling atrocities committed by Japanese forces.

It is so hard to reconcile the politeness, courtesy and decency of most Japanese against this terrible history.

That is a shame to Whitewash the past. The Truth should be told, regardless what it is. Atrocities were committed by Everyone during those times. What a strange time in history for Japan and Germany to start Wars at the same time. I've heard that the culture there is one where all the People follows rules to the T. No one dares to break out of the routine. Maybe someone on the forum can enlighten us more about this?
I went there once to see a Friend that was a scientist. Because of his work, he had a two story apartment which is luxury there. Most People live in very small dwellings. I was shocked when I went to a food market. An apple was wrapped in plastic individually. A cantaloupe melon was $20. They sold beer in all size cans, out of a vending machine.
From what I've seen in a few video's of the bombings, it looked Horrendous. The poor civilians didn't deserve what happened to them, but also, the poor People of SE Asia that Japan invaded, didn't deserve What the Japanese Military did to them either. There are No Winners in War!

 

[vocalneal]

I think more people were killed in the fire bombing of Tokyo but that seems to go unnoticed.

 

[Hawk256]

I think more people were killed in the fire bombing of Tokyo but that seems to go unnoticed.

There is at least some merit to the idea that the nuclear bombs actually resulted in less loss of life than if the war had continued. Japan would not likely have surrendered under any other circumstances and the war would have dragged on with continuous fire bombing.

 

[harryopal1]

One of the delicate issues is to do with the role of the Emperor Hirohito. General MacArthur deemed it necessary for public order to keep the Emperor in place. A lot was done to represent the Emperor as a kind of puppet of the military and not directly responsible for war crimes. The Emperor never made a public apology for Nanking or other atrocities and it was important to Japanese that he not be put in such a position. Emperor Hirohito was privy to all the war plans including a decision to use terror as a policy of management. Hiirohito was passionate about biology and would have known of the terrible experiments done at Harbin where much work was done to try and develop biological means of spreading disease as a weapon of war. Prisoners of war and other civilians were subjected to a horrible litany of tortures committed in the name of science. Anything critical of the Japanese emperors is fraught with the same kind of punishment possibilities as with the King in Thailand. An absolute no no.

 

[Balifrog]

Something one has to keep in mind is that the perpertrators of all horrible war crimes are ordinary people like you and me.
A few years before, they were probabily having drinks in the pub with work colleagues or mates and playing pool before going home to their wife and kids.
Nobody is a born monster.
But exceptionnal circumstances, like war, will bring the best and the worst out of people.
Some of those "ordinary people" will turn heroes, some will do horrible things.
Both temporary.
When I watch videos from the Ukrainian war, where drone operators finish off wounded soldiers (both sides), I wonder "how can you do something like this ?"
But I know the answer.

I saw a documentary on ex SS guys. One admitted mass executing Jews in a Polish village. Asked "how did you feel, what did you think when pulling the trigger ?"
His answer was "Nothing, I just tried to aim well to avoid him to suffer. Anyway if I had refused to do it, I would have been executed and the guy as well..."

Humans have been killing each other since their origin, and it's not going to change.

 

[gemima]

Something one has to keep in mind is that the perpertrators of all horrible war crimes are ordinary people like you and me.
A few years before, they were probabily having drinks in the pub with work colleagues or mates and playing pool before going home to their wife and kids.
Nobody is a born monster.
But exceptionnal circumstances, like war, will bring the best and the worst out of people.
Some of those "ordinary people" will turn heroes, some will do horrible things.
Both temporary.
When I watch videos from the Ukrainian war, where drone operators finish off wounded soldiers (both sides), I wonder "how can you do something like this ?"
But I know the answer.

I saw a documentary on ex SS guys. One admitted mass executing Jews in a Polish village. Asked "how did you feel, what did you think when pulling the trigger ?"
His answer was "Nothing, I just tried to aim well to avoid him to suffer. Anyway if I had refused to do it, I would have been executed and the guy as well..."

Humans have been killing each other since their origin, and it's not going to change.

Dan Carlin (American radio/ podcaster and hobby historian) does a great dig into the Japanese perspectives in his mammoth podcast series Supernova in the east (hardcore history). Its like 20+ hours long. I learnt a lot - esp about them taking Indonesia and the horrible reality of fighting in jungles. Grim stuff.

 

[centurion]

There is at least some merit to the idea that the nuclear bombs actually resulted in less loss of life than if the war had continued. Japan would not likely have surrendered under any other circumstances and the war would have dragged on with continuous fire bombing.

Allies estimaded 1 million casualties for their own soldiers in case of invasion of Japan. The war already ended in Europe, so the nuclear option was a shortcut.