Falling out of love with Indonesia.

[Chiron]

Nusa Penida has some nice beaches. Probably can be enjoyed for a nominal amount of pies.

 

[Daniel50]

Hahaha........yes someone should be able to enjoy this with nominal pies.

 

[snpark]

Most beaches, as well as shorelines, not covered with flotsam, vendors, or drunken tourists.

So anywhere but Bali then

 

[Mark Ev]

No sure where you are from but perhaps your home town is drawing you back and finding the negatives in the travel and places may be easier than looking for and finding the positives in Indonesia.

 

[Daniel50]

Seriously, there are people who search and never find. People, and life, can seem complicated. Anthony Bourdain reported having a heroin addiction which he overcame. However, on his episodes, which I really enjoyed, I would see him drinking copious amounts of alcohol, which is a depressant. Not a good combination if you are somewhat depressed and it does not treat addiction but merely provides a substitute. For many people the restless searching is an inside job. Of course there are always outside factors like lack of meaningful connections etc. etc......Also some people push others away through their own behaviors and attitudes and never really address their problems. Wherever you go there you are so we can never really escape but people have many ways to try to distract and escape some are healthier then others. As life progresses any combination of these can make life seem more hopeless. A new place can often provide a temporary escape until the imperfections in myself begin to surface then I will become unhappy once again. Life is never perfect and some days are better then others but again a lot of it begins with ourselves.

 

[vocalneal]

Wherever you go there you are so we can never really escape but people have many ways to try to distract and escape

Hash House Harriers?

OK I'll get my hat!

 

[jstar]

Wherever you go there you are so we can never really escape but people have many ways to try to distract and escape some are healthier then others. As life progresses any combination of these can make life seem more hopeless. A new place can often provide a temporary escape until the imperfections in myself begin to surface then I will become unhappy once again. Life is never perfect and some days are better then others but again a lot of it begins with ourselves.

I agree with your “wherever you go you’ll always take the weather with you” assessment.

But I also think there are certain (cultural, religious, ...) characteristics of a region and country -similar to those of a person I guess- that can be nauseating and off-turning.

Me myself, I could never live somewhere while closing myself completely off from the society around me.

And if someone really doesn’t care about anything in the world and doesn’t need anything but a roof on the beach of a Bounty island, some mates and a coconut to suck from, go to NTT or the Moluccas. Let’s see how long it lasts..

 

[Daniel50]

I agree with your “wherever you go you’ll always take the weather with you” assessment.

But I also think there are certain (cultural, religious, ...) characteristics of a region and country -similar to those of a person I guess- that can be nauseating and off-turning.

Me myself, I could never live somewhere while closing myself completely off from the society around me.

And if someone really doesn’t care about anything in the world and doesn’t need anything but a roof on the beach of a Bounty island, some mates and a coconut to suck from, go to NTT or the Moluccas. Let’s see how long it lasts..

I didn't really take the living on a beach literally and I am sure for some people what they value shifts over time eg. career less important and for some others it doesn't. I am sure there is a wide range of beliefs and values which drive people and eg. dealing with some of my own beliefs and values will not bring eg. better health care to where I am living.

I to would become too bored and would not last on a beach with a few mates. But I guess whether I live on Bali, or elsewhere, I will need the basics eg. for me a comfortable place to live, of course what constitutes comfortable can vary from person to person. I will also need some human connection/relationships again this varies among people some need more some less. And then what a person adds to this is dependent on their personality/character, beliefs/values, talents/interests.

I am aware of some of the shortcomings of the place/country I am moving to but as you stated somewhere earlier there is closer access to family and for me some other positives to where I will live. There are also things I don't like. If I can make a difference in some small way then it is up to me if I choose to help or choose not to become involved, detach or choose between options.

But for me I always need the basics to fall back on.....meaning some food, a decent place to live and a few people who I believe love me and who I love. Then again I can continue to add or take away other interests. It is probably better for me, those around me and the larger world if I do not choose things which are self destructive and destructive to others. Of course some of these things can take over and control many aspects of my life. Even in this there is a wide range of beliefs, values, opinions and experiences. Many differences are not that important and some can be very important.

 

[waarmstrong]

Nice place to visit, but I would not want to live there.

 

[Burungkecil]

Coincidentally I have begun thinking about my future in Indonesia too. I've been here for 20 years and am currently renewing my KITAP. I'm not sure if it's thoughts of a lifetime KITAP that have triggered the thoughts about the future but this is the first time that I have questioned whether I will be here for the remainder of my life.
I recently spent five months back home in the UK helping to look after my father who has Alzheimer's and still miss the old place for all its faults.
Then when I got back to Jakarta after a longish break I began to see Indonesia with new eyes. I contrasted it to twenty years ago when you rarely saw women wearing a veil, the pace of life was slower, the roads were quiet and getting from A to B was almost pleasurable. Plenty of improvements too but it's the increasing religious conservatism that is worrying me more than anything. Ahok losing the Jakarta gubernatorial election owing to his religion, Jokowi choosing a Muslim cleric as his running mate, even the introduction of all-female buses and trains (ostensibly on the grounds that there were too many groping men but suiting the agenda of the pro-Syariah brigade) are indicative of a changing atmosphere here and one that I'm not keen on.

 

[nd_eric_77]

I resisted posting here as long as I could... but seriously... we ordered Pizza Marzanno via Go-Food tonight... Worst Go-Food decision EVER!!! WHAT THE ACTUAL F*** is wrong with pizza places here???!!!???!!! The amount of mozzarella cheese between the TWO LARGE PIZZAs was MAYBE enough to cover two SLICES of pizza in a legitimate pizzarria. And don't even THINK about giving me the BULLSH*T EXCUSE of "mozzarella is expensive here"... IF YOU CAN"T AFFORD MOZZARELLA, THEN YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO SELL PIZZA!!!!!!!!!! Uggh, when my wife insists on ordering something different from the admittedly sh*tty pizza hut (PHD), I would like to at least get something that tastes reasonably similar to actual pizza. But NOOOOOOOO, Indonesia loves sh*tty pizza!!!
Good pizza requires a large quantity of mozzarella. If you can't accept that, then you can't sell good pizza.

 

[snpark]

I guess maybe because we are in Indonesia not Italy?

The nasi goreng in Milan sucks too

 

[lifelongexpat]

Worst Go-Food decision EVER!!!

At least your food arrived complete. I've had one pillock of a driver help himself to the contents of a Go-Food order before.

 

[Daniel50]

Plenty of improvements too but it's the increasing religious conservatism that is worrying me more than anything. Ahok losing the Jakarta gubernatorial election owing to his religion, Jokowi choosing a Muslim cleric as his running mate, even the introduction of all-female buses and trains (ostensibly on the grounds that there were too many groping men but suiting the agenda of the pro-Syariah brigade) are indicative of a changing atmosphere here and one that I'm not keen on.

Yes, hopefully they don't become too oppressive towards others but this is what may happen, all in the name of religion. We are going back to live in Baliwood, the real Bollywood, and although it is not perfect hopefully we can live a peaceful/quiet life. If not we will have to see what options are available to us. But my wife's family are a big drawing card.

 

[harryopal1]

Coincidentally I have begun thinking about my future in Indonesia too. ....
Then when I got back to Jakarta after a longish break I began to see Indonesia with new eyes. I contrasted it to twenty years ago when you rarely saw women wearing a veil, the pace of life was slower, the roads were quiet and getting from A to B was almost pleasurable. Plenty of improvements too but it's the increasing religious conservatism that is worrying me more than anything. Ahok losing the Jakarta gubernatorial election owing to his religion, Jokowi choosing a Muslim cleric as his running mate, even the introduction of all-female buses and trains (ostensibly on the grounds that there were too many groping men but suiting the agenda of the pro-Syariah brigade) are indicative of a changing atmosphere here and one that I'm not keen on.

 

[Daniel50]

Harryopal you did not post anything.............is it you agree or did you go to sleep at the keyboard or something...?

 

[harryopal1]

Oops! I had visitors and accidentally posted the blank reply. My wife is from Bandung and much prefers Bali where the oppressive nature of extremists is not felt and she says this also seems a much safer environment. Of course, in Bali the increasing impact of tourism is more evident and driving anywhere from Denpasar to Jimbaran is not a lot of fun. But the northern end of the island, Singaraja or that area is much easier.

Most places don't compare favourably with how they were 20 years ago. I left Melbourne to head north in 1997 and visiting now is like being in a foreign country. Road traffic has become so much heavier and not a lot of fun.

As someone on a very small pension I can certainly have a much more pleasant lifestyle in Bali given the relative costs of living.

 

[Daniel50]

Of course, there are places that are rated by some as great places to live eg. Melbourne, Vancouver etc. but they also have traffic,high cost of living and various social problems, like anywhere in the world. Of course some places are worse then others. Sometimes it is just a status thing..... oh I live here, or here, but actual life for most people isn't that great. We are basically simple, laid back people. So, a relatively quiet place close to services and just try to enjoy life day by day.

 

[waarmstrong]

Many of my family are more conservative in their dress in recent years. Under the jilbabs and robs they are pretty much the same people.

 

[jstar]

Yes, hopefully they don't become too oppressive towards others but this is what may happen, all in the name of religion. We are going back to live in Baliwood

As many here, I have seen what happened in larger cities as Istanbul, Brussels and Jakarta, the previous decades.

Now I don’t consider myself a bigot who feels jeopardized by the increase of ladies with headscarves. But I do feel people from religious denominations should also respect and leave non believers be, not force their rules upon others.

And that doesn’t seem possible. What I’ve seen in Central and West Java is that the tolerance has been decreasing considerably. And if constant loud noise is considered normal and complaining is blasphemous and will make you go to jail (do not pass GO, do not collect 200 rupiah), and if the local supermarket is not allowed to sell me a beer anymore, those are signs for me it has gone too far in this society.

Now in Baliwood, it is not so far. Yet. But if we consider a 60/40 division now, the economic transmigration of people from other islands which is not stopping, the KIPEM system under legal attack by the eKTP (which could have a huge impact on local elections), the big pockets of Javanese in certain places in Jimbaran (Taman Gria) and Denpasar (under Sanur and in outskirts of Kuta) where the call for prayer is as loud as in Jakarta, it is only a matter of time it will be similar.

Of course the touristic party centers will remain, but outside of those I give it 10 years max before we’re there...