Being Black In Indonesia

[Davita]

Is it just me or does anyone else find it difficult to follow a thread when some make a response, or accusation, without referring to whom or what they are responding to?
It isn't necessary to click the reply button everytime but a simple re: post #?..... would at least give the thread some continuity.

 

[vocalneal]

verbally harassed with racial slurs, falsely accused of crimes, being forced to explain your disability before being allowed to board a bus...

I have never done any of those so consider me disgusting if you must. I'm just not jumping on the "woe is me" bandwagon. That being said I am not American so not indoctrinated from birth in one direction or another.

Maybe you could answer? From which section of the melting post of US society most prison inmates come from. Were the inmates forced to commit the crimes they committed. There is never smoke without fire. To quote Monty Python? "It's a fair cop but society is to blame" .

I guess i could add that most modern Germans don't continually blame the Brits for bombing them, neither do modern Brits blame the Germans. So how many generations will it take the "woe is me" brigade to let bygones be bygones as the Europeans have.

 

[gemima]

I have never done any of those so consider me disgusting if you must. I'm just not jumping on the "woe is me" bandwagon. That being said I am not American so not indoctrinated from birth in one direction or another.

Maybe you could answer? From which section of the melting post of US society most prison inmates come from. Were the inmates forced to commit the crimes they committed. There is never smoke without fire. To quote Monty Python? "It's a fair cop but society is to blame" .

I do think you need to consider the generation effects that slavery/ poverty have on a group of people. African Americans never started from a level playing ground thanks to the effects of slavery. I'm not sure why I'm bothering to reply to you because I get the feeling you have a fixed view on this matter.

I'm Irish, and I see the ill effects of colonization on my country to this day in so many aspects of life there when I compare us to other Europeans. You can't snap your finger and say "we're all equal now", these things take so long so normalize.

Regarding your point about prison population I suggest you look at the 2016 documentary 13th. It might open your eyes to some of the injustice that Black people face in the US.

 

[Vicissidude]

I have never done any of those so consider me disgusting if you must. I'm just not jumping on the "woe is me" bandwagon. That being said I am not American so not indoctrinated from birth in one direction or another.

Maybe you could answer? From which section of the melting post of US society most prison inmates come from. Were the inmates forced to commit the crimes they committed. There is never smoke without fire. To quote Monty Python? "It's a fair cop but society is to blame" .

I never said you did those things. But you mock and belittle the victims of racial discrimination with your "woe is me" sentiment.

I recommend you read the book The New Jim Crow for more insight on the criminal justice system and structural racism that exists in the US.

 

[jstar]

Never heard of prostitutes though.

Those are women (or men) who sell their bodies.

I think many Africans are associated as drug dealers.

Esp. Nigerians, while many of course are involved in businesses dealing with jewelry, textiles or oil.


But I agree what @dafluff states in his first response. Everything 'exotic' and foreign here is approached with laughter and staring.

And I heard a security guard mentioning a 'orang bule nigeria'. Wow, must have been an albino.

Society is full with racism, saying that it is more extreme in Indonesia is really pushing it. In Puerto Rico for instance, there was definitely a 'the darker you are, the less you are' approach. Colleagues of Spanish descent were more often (and questionably) selected for promotion. But in California or so, the positive discrimation got completely out of hand. If you are a female who is gay and colored and with a disability, you will never get fired, even if you screw up everything you do.

Having said that, even here there is quite some prejudice which can lead to discrimination of course. Javanese are backstabbers, Sundanese look good but are dirty, Chinese are rude, Ambonese are fighters and bone breakers, in Flores they only want to party, Manadonese girls are promiscuous, etc.

But also within ethnic groups people discriminate; see for instance the negative connotations as the word HITACHI (used for dark colored Chinese, you can figure out the words used in the abbreviation) or even BENTENG (CINA), from the pasar area in Tangerang.

 

[Vicissidude]

Regarding your point about prison population I suggest you look at the 2016 documentary 13th. It might open your eyes to some of the injustice that Black people face in the US.

Haven't seen that one, I'll check it out! I just watched the documentary series TIME: The Kalief Browder Story, which I think you'll like. Kid was tried as an adult and held in one of the most dangerous prisons for 3 years, tortured and starved, 800 days in solitary confinement, all because he was accused of theft, and the prosecution kept delaying to try and get him to take a plea deal like 99% of people would under the circumstances. He was eventually found not guilty, suffered from PTSD, and killed himself.

Maybe vocalneal will say he deserved it.

 

[vocalneal]

This thread started out about being African in Indonesia. I have answered as honestly I can and now the thread is being dragged into the continental US's problem. Yes I did mention the US first. But that's because it is Americans that seem to think this whole skin colour thing is a bigger issue than it actually is outside the US and in Indonesia or Asia in particular.

Yes Indonesians may stare at Africans who are particularly dark but it is no different to the way they stare at particularly blonde European women or children.

I will now get my hat!

 

[Anglian]

I travel by train from Chicago to Kansas City, my friend and I went to the Buffet Car, wasn't many people there, till eventually just me and my friend, we got chatting to the black cook, probably the most interesting person I ever met in the US, we helped him eat all the extra food, no charge, he told us stories of different towns we passed through, his name was Rastus, I said to him I thought only poor black slaves in Hollywood films were called Rastus, he said the name was his mums idea, as he might be famous one day, he really made that trip

 

[Anglian]

well I suppose as there aren't to many black people here, a natural progression to bring in the US,

 

[ChrisD]

Coming to this thread late, but I noticed a few nervous looks here in Bali from local friends (Balinese and Javanese) when they saw afro-americans.

I asked once and their response was "Ebola" - the wonders of rumours on social media

 

[Puspawarna]

^ Sounds like an American perspective where most of the "woe is me" people live.

As you are not American, and as far as I know have not lived in the US nor witnessed the trials that African-Americans face in the US, I don't think you have the right to deride the American black experience.

I've had the excellent fortune to live and work side-by-side a lot of black Americans, and they have taught me a lot about racism. (Not by lecturing me, either; I've simply had the chance to hear their stories and see how people interact with them.) Dismissing people who experience racism as "woe is me" wimps is simply wrong-headed.

 

[Anglian]

I can vouch for what you are saying Puspa, when I worked in Saudi we had two black Americans, one I mentioned in a previous post, they were both given a very hard time by a white American foreman who hailed from Florida, it got quite bad that myself and several Brits had to have shall we say a quite chat with him to lay of our two friends, things improved considerably after that, I’m quite sure my two mates could look after themselves, but we thought we should sort things out before they got too serious

 

[harryopal1]

Being black in Australia is no laughing matter either. Racism is a day to day experience if you are an Aboriginal, Torres Strait Islander, black American or you fall into the general definition of "coloured ".

Vocal Neal's comment, "From which section of the melting post of US society most prison inmates come from. Were the inmates forced to commit the crimes they committed. There is never smoke without fire." is not an uncommon, perhaps even majority view point and not unlike the attitude of former Australian Prime Minister, John Howard who argued that Australia should disregard a "black armband view of history".

This kind of thinking totally denies the debilitating impact of oppression. Perhaps the best analysis of the the impact of this was provided by the black, Martinique writer, Franz Fanon in his book "Wretched of the Earth" first published in 1961. He argues that the most oppressed develop a self hatred of their own powerlessness and become very self destructive. This can be seen very starkly with Aboriginal to Aboriginal violence. .

Consider this: Australian Aborigines were driven off the land by waves of settlers and confined mostly in reserves and settlements and were not recognized as citizens of Australia until 1967. Generations were confined to the fringes of white society and dependent upon government handouts to survive. With lack of education and work opportunities drink and resort to crime became established patterns for many. Today Aborigines represent 3% of the population while 28% of the prison population is Aboriginal.

As wards of state in Queensland Aboriginal and Torres Stait Islander people were totally under the control of government and reserve superintendents who could deal with a trouble maker by sending that person away from family or another reserve a thousand kilometres away without any right of appeal. The "protective" powers of the Queensland Act continued into the late sixties and beyond.

Segregation in hospitals, cinemas, eating and other places continued into the 1960s framing life for those people who were not living on reserves or covered by the act. I remember the pain of a young Aboriginal Vietnam veteran telling me that he was not allowed to enter hotels with mates for a drink even though he had served the country overseas.

But it seems this powerful reality of the Aboriginal and Islander experience should be swept way with an, "Ahh forget it and just get on with it."