Almost 60% of Muslim Teachers Intolerant, Hold Radical Views

[Burungkecil]

Worrying statistics revealed in a Jakarta Globe article today following a survey carried out by a state Islamic university.

https://jakartaglobe.id/news/nearly...intolerant-many-vilify-modern-science-survey/

 

[Fred]

The big problem with statistics is they tend to prove whatever the person quoting the numbers wants to prove.
I found a hundred percent of people I questioned about this agree.

 

[El_Goretto]

The big problem with statistics is they tend to prove whatever the person quoting the numbers wants to prove.
I found a hundred percent of people I questioned about this agree.

Except that's not how statistics work at all.

If you had read the article, you would have found this information:

The results of a national survey by Syarif Hidayatullah State Islamic University's Center for the Study of Islam and Society (PPIM), published on Tuesday, show that nearly 60 percent of Muslim teachers are intolerant, while about 46 percent had radical leanings.

The PPIM conducted the survey between Aug. 6 and Sept. 6, randomly sampling 2,237 Muslim teachers from regular and Islamic schools across the country. Respondents were given an implicit bias test consisting of computer-assisted questionnaires that measured their levels of intolerance and radicalism.

The center reported a 2.07 percent margin of error and a confidence level of 95 percent.

This tells us that the organization who conducted the study seems reputable and unbiased (being an Islamic organisation itself) and that their methodology seems on point (statistically significant sample, good confidence level, etc).

So as far as what PPIM has published is truthful, it doesn't seem like The Jakarta Globe is trying to prove whatever they want to prove.

 

[Daniel50]

I am too lazy to track down sources but there have been various agencies in Government/Universities/Academics/Media noticing this trend especially since Ahok. Some indicated this sort of woke a lot of people up. At least many don't have their head in the sand denying what is happening in Indonesia. How this will evolve I am not sure but it would suggest more intolerance and rigidity. Some others have put this on their "reason" list to start thinking of leaving Indonesia.

Of course not everyone in Indonesia sees the West, mainly the USA, as a culture they want to evolve to either. It seems either more Arab or more Western is perhaps how it is viewed by many/some?

 

[Fred]

This tells us that the organization who conducted the study seems reputable and unbiased (being an Islamic organisation itself) and that their methodology seems on point (statistically significant sample, good confidence level, etc).

I think you have to read further than assumptions.
The university runs courses and seminars in anti extremism and has quite a little business from that line of work, and a lot of world attention.
I wouldn't claim for a moment anything unreasonable is going on, just assumptions are a bit of a killer to any given argument.

 

[El_Goretto]

I think you have to read further than assumptions.
The university runs courses and seminars in anti extremism and has quite a little business from that line of work, and a lot of world attention.
I wouldn't claim for a moment anything unreasonable is going on, just assumptions are a bit of a killer to any given argument.

But short of conducting the survey myself, there has to be some amount of assumption, don't you think?

 

[Fred]

But short of conducting the survey myself, there has to be some amount of assumption, don't you think?

We don't need to assume there are radical elements in Indonesia because killings over the years make it very clear there are.
The university has a valid point, that being extreme ideas are spread to the under-educated, making so many of Indonesia's poorest potential canon fodder for those at the top of the tree These people being there either because of what they believe is religiously correct, or just because they like the cash, power, and inexhaustible supply of women to sit on their face.

Education is the key to dumping the extremists (and improving Indonesia in general), not bleating on about the problem on forums but returning to your coffee and newspaper the moment you've read the piece and quacked on a little.

 

[El_Goretto]

You keep shifting the goal posts @Fred.

First you say the JG (the one quoting the figures) is making the numbers say whatever they'd like them to say (I paraphrase)

Then I point out that it's reasonable to assume the figures are trustworthy (happy to be proven otherwise) because the institute who did the study are an Islamic organization promoting Islamic values, as opposed to, say, a western far right media with an agenda; and also because there seem to be a transparent and sound methodology. And you seem to criticize me for making that assumption.

Then you move on to pointing out there's no need to have assumptions as to whether there is rising intolerance in Indonesia. So what kind of assumption are we talking about? Assumption that the institute is making a truthful survey or assumption about the state of intolerance in Indonesia?

And finally, you end up somewhat agreeing with the PPIM study.

I'm having a hard time following your train of thought.

not bleating on about the problem on forums but returning to your coffee and newspaper the moment you've read the piece and quacked on a little.

Well, at least it contributes to raising awareness.

These people being there either because of what they believe is religiously correct, or just because they like the cash, power, and inexhaustible supply of women to sit on their face.

Please.

 

[Fred]

First you say the JG (the one quoting the figures) is making the numbers say whatever they'd like them to say (I paraphrase)

You didn't paraphrase, you made it up.
I didn't say that

I wouldn't claim for a moment anything unreasonable is going on

See

 

[Fred]

And you seem to criticize me for making that assumption.

Of course I did - You can't argue points based on assumption.
I assume Trump's mother had an unnatural relationship with goat but I can hardly argue the point as I have no evidence,

 

[Fred]

I'm having a hard time following your train of thought.

Not making assumptions would be helpful.

 

[Fred]

Then you move on to pointing out there's no need to have assumptions as to whether there is rising intolerance in Indonesia.

This is a reading comprehension issue. I didn't mention RISING anything, only the existence

We don't need to assume there are radical elements in Indonesia because killings over the years make it very clear there are.

Perhaps you'd like to brush up on your English skills so you don't make yourself look foolish by arguing points you made up in your head.

 

[El_Goretto]

You didn't paraphrase, you made it up.
I didn't say that

See below. That's what you said and yes I did paraphrase.

The big problem with statistics is they tend to prove whatever the person quoting the numbers wants to prove.

Of course I did - You can't argue points based on assumption.

Not making assumptions would be helpful.

Well, didn't you immediately assume that (and I'm not paraphrasing here) the big problem with statistics is they tend to prove whatever the person quoting the numbers wants to prove?

This is a reading comprehension issue. I didn't mention RISING anything, only the existence

Tomato, tomahto.

Perhaps you'd like to brush up on your English skills so you don't make yourself look foolish by arguing points you made up in your head.

Oh please, the good ol' "your English sucks", that's laughable. I've already established that whatever you said makes no sense, that you keep going in circles and contradicting yourself. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that either you are having difficulties with English yourself or you are making this ridiculous argument on purpose. One thing is for certain, you may want to brush up your skills on statistics.

The fact that your only arguments are "I didn't say that", "learn to read" and "your English sucks" leads me to think that there is nothing more to be gained from this discussion, that I have made my point and have nothing more to say on this trivial matter. Thank you and have a good week end.

 

[Fred]

Well, didn't you immediately assume that (and I'm not paraphrasing here) the big problem with statistics is they tend to prove whatever the person quoting the numbers wants to prove?

A general statement you've taken out of context to make it mean what you want it to say

 

[Fred]

Tomato, tomahto.

Please quote where I mentioned "Rising" - Oh, you can't because you made it up.

 

[Fred]

you keep going in circles and contradicting yourself.

No, you just assume too much so get the wrong idea. Once you've confused yourself, you argue about things I haven't said

 

[Fred]

I have made my point and have nothing more to say on this trivial matter.

You've made no points as you answered what you thought were the questions, not what were the questions.

 

[Daniel50]

I've already established that whatever you said makes no sense, that you keep going in circles and contradicting yourself. In fact, I'd go as far as to say you are making this ridiculous argument on purpose.

 

[snpark]

Fight fight fight lol

 

[Fred]

Well, didn't you immediately assume that (and I'm not paraphrasing here) the big problem with statistics is they tend to prove whatever the person quoting the numbers wants to prove?

Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions - No facts

As for your contentions about my attitude regarding gay sex, you're wrong.

Oh, sorry, I assumed you were talking about that so I paraphrased (Also known as "Talking total bollocks", something you're very much guilty of).