Aceh local Gov't plans...

[Pilgrimrunner]

Aceh Provincial Administration have some plans...

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...-as-punishment-under-bylaw-official-says.html

 

[Anglian]

Execution has never stopped a criminal from committing Rape, murder robbery or drug smuggling, but I suppose it gives simple minds some satisfaction in thinking they have a means of deterrent which in fact doesn’t work

 

[Balifrog]

Not really agree with you Anglian.
When I worked in Saudi in the early 80's we could buy a TV, put it on the backseat of the car, and walk around leaving the car open, no problem. Cuttinc the hand of any thief was clearly a deterrent...
Dont know about nowadays ?
IMO it works if really applied swiftly.
Not that I am for it !

 

[waarmstrong]

Execution has never stopped a criminal from committing Rape, murder robbery or drug smuggling, but I suppose it gives simple minds some satisfaction in thinking they have a means of deterrent which in fact doesn’t work

As a deterrent, capital punishment is of little effect, as you note. It does function to satisfy the need for retribution, a need experienced by more than "simple minds."

 

[waarmstrong]

Not really agree with you Anglian.
When I worked in Saudi in the early 80's we could buy a TV, put it on the backseat of the car, and walk around leaving the car open, no problem. Cuttinc the hand of any thief was clearly a deterrent...
Dont know about nowadays ?
IMO it works if really applied swiftly.
Not that I am for it !

Anecdotal evidence has its limitations, especially to support a causal relationship. Perhaps most Saudis and their guest workers acted in deference to the tenants of their faith, rather than out of fear.

 

[IndoTom]

Execution has never stopped a criminal from committing Rape, murder robbery or drug smuggling, but I suppose it gives simple minds some satisfaction in thinking they have a means of deterrent which in fact doesn’t work

Execution has stopped repeat offenses for sure!

 

[waarmstrong]

Life w/o parole also stops repeat offences and, surprisingly, its an option less expensive than execution.

 

[IndoTom]

Life w/o parole also stops repeat offences and, surprisingly, its an option less expensive than execution.

Don't you believe they commit even more crimes while in prison? So a life sentence for them may just make other lesser criminals even worse and then those are the ones that get out of the revolving door prison system. Wow this sounds like the criminal prison system in the USA. That's a model to run away from not emulate. I would like to live in a place where criminals are afraid and repentant not "galak" or emboldened when caught. Not saying Indonesia is the model either. I'll never forget Mrs "Lupa Berat" and Guyus "the tax man", although Trump has trumped their act.

 

[IndoTom]

Not really agree with you Anglian.
When I worked in Saudi in the early 80's we could buy a TV, put it on the backseat of the car, and walk around leaving the car open, no problem. Cuttinc the hand of any thief was clearly a deterrent...
Dont know about nowadays ?
IMO it works if really applied swiftly.
Not that I am for it !

Who would steal AGAIN after they lost 1 hand? It's very difficult to use the bathroom without hands.

 

[Dan]

Life w/o parole also stops repeat offences and, surprisingly, its an option less expensive than execution.

No on two accounts.

First, sending someone to prison, even for life, does not end recidivism. They still have ample opportunity to harm other inmates and prison workers. The other obvious problem here is that while it may be true in a country like the United States that life in prison is cheaper than execution because of legal costs and due process, none of that is true in Aceh. Execution would be, by far, the cheapest option available to our kangaroo courts in Aceh.

 

[Dan]

The media frenzy concerning Aceh's supposed mulling of new methods of execution was premature, the jurist who actually suggested it as a possibility has already said it was purely in accordance with his role as a Muslim jurist. Aceh's DPR is NOT presently seeking to expand Qanun Aceh to include decapitation and amputation. In fact, only a few years back, Aceh's governor summarily rejected an effort to introduce rajam, stoning, as a penalty.

What should be important to ExpatIndo's readership is not so much Aceh's leadership supposedly (but not really) mulling this, but signs that MUI's leadership supports this as well. This should surprise no one: MUI is made up of Muslim jurists and decapitation and amputation are punishments recommended in the Qur'an itself.

While I am generally OK with capital punishment, I have been tickled by the response from the Indonesian government. The argument I have seen is that Aceh does not have the authority to enact such punishments. Yet in their own Law on Governing Aceh they state that the Aceh government's elected officials are obliged to enact and enforce the shari'a and Qanun Aceh. The LoGA is a conflicted document, as is the concept that Aceh can be a semi-autonomous but fully integrated province of Indonesia.

Either Aceh needs to adhere to the Indonesian Constitution or Aceh needs to be separate. I support the latter, strongly, because I do not believe Acehnese lives can be entrusted to the government that tried to kill them. But if Indonesia is going to do this, they need to do it one way or the other. There's no room for middle ground, and seeking it will only further push Aceh's indigenous peoples closer to a new rebellion.

https://www.cnnindonesia.com/nasion...1/mui-sepakat-penerapan-hukum-pancung-di-aceh

 

[Dan]

Article 16, Clause 2 of the LoGA:

"Other mandatory affairs which become the authorities of Aceh Government are the implementation of Aceh special characteristics which among others cover:

a. Administering religious life in the form of implementing Islamic syari’at for its worshippers in Aceh by maintaining the inter-religious community harmony of life;

b. Administering indigenous life based on Islam;

c. Administering good quality education as well as increasing local content subject matter in accordance with Islamic syari’at;

d. Role of ulama in the stipulation of Aceh policy; and

e. Administering and management of hajj in accordance with statutory regulations."

The LoGA also stipulates that the Aceh government must adhere to Indonesia's Constitution. The idea here is that shari'a is somehow not in conflict with the Indonesian Constitution, so it's perfectly OK that the Aceh government implements the shari'a. In fact, it's mandatory that they do so.

Indonesia really needs to make up its mind on this issue.

http://www.ifrc.org/docs/idrl/968EN.pdf

 

[Anglian]

Not really agree with you Anglian.
When I worked in Saudi in the early 80's we could buy a TV, put it on the backseat of the car, and walk around leaving the car open, no problem. Cuttinc the hand of any thief was clearly a deterrent...
Dont know about nowadays ?
IMO it works if really applied swiftly.
Not that I am for it !

In general that’s true, but in the early80s when I was there several policemen were executed for rape, we had several cars broken into, it was reported, but no action taken until Saudia found a wheel on one of their trucks had been taken, I then had to visit the local police station to give evidence, a visit there is enough to put you on the straight and narrow, but in general you are correct Saudis are very law abiding, my real horror is public executions, in America people are excuted with chemicals that don’t work, I sometimes think a person should die for a terrible crime then I think they should have the rest of their miserable life suffering in a crappy prison

 

[Anglian]

Here is an odd piece of news which we read in the Saudi newspaper Arab News in 1980, 80 people were stoned to death in1979 for adulatory, we really puzzled over this on how one could commit adulatory, in a country which was so protective of its women, nothing to do with Aceh, but just another method of execution and no matter how horrendous the deterrent people will continue to commit serious crimes, as Warmie said it does give us some satisfactory rather than the deterant

 

[Pak Tani]

Either Aceh needs to adhere to the Indonesian Constitution or Aceh needs to be separate. I support the latter, strongly, because I do not believe Acehnese lives can be entrusted to the government that tried to kill them. But if Indonesia is going to do this, they need to do it one way or the other. There's no room for middle ground, and seeking it will only further push Aceh's indigenous peoples closer to a new rebellion.

I find that an interesting view on the situation. The situation is completely different now. Suharto is gone and the governments after him have changed. GAM has signed a peace treaty and RI troops have withdrawn. There is an agreement over Aceh's natural resources and also an agreement that give the Aceh quite a big deal of autonomy to organise and rule it's province how they want it. The situation is more or less stable, economically and socially, so most families can live in peace and raise their children without having to worry about severe poverty, a civil war or anarchy. On top of that Aceh enjoys the safety of an army that protects it against groups or countries that want to harm it.
Why support separatism and risk all of the things above?

 

[Minuteman]

When in Rome....

 

[Dan]

I find that an interesting view on the situation. The situation is completely different now. Suharto is gone and the governments after him have changed.

Until at least 2004, prior to the tsunami, the Indonesian military was on the ground, killing locals. They stopped once the eye of the world was upon them, once they had to come to some kind of reconciliation due to the unprecedented nature of the disaster. I have multiple relatives who were harmed by the Indonesian military, some of them not even associated with GAM.

GAM has signed a peace treaty and RI troops have withdrawn. There is an agreement over Aceh's natural resources and also an agreement that give the Aceh quite a big deal of autonomy to organise and rule it's province how they want it. The situation is more or less stable, economically and socially, so most families can live in peace and raise their children without having to worry about severe poverty, a civil war or anarchy. On top of that Aceh enjoys the safety of an army that protects it against groups or countries that want to harm it.
Why support separatism and risk all of the things above?

It's true that the Acehnese people are tired of struggling. Even a population as tenacious as the Acehnese need stability. They have not stopped desiring some kind of independence, however. I know very few Acehnese who support remaining part of Indonesia as it stands today. Like all people, they have differing views on how this can be achieved. Some are staunch separatists, who would see an independent Aceh. Others believe that Sumatera should be an independent state. Very few Acehnese, or other people indigenous to Aceh, take a positive view of remaining part of Indonesia.

The Acehnese have a right to self-determination, no matter how ill-conceived that vision may appear to be. Before the term "Indonesia" was ever coined there was an Aceh, and it was likely the last independent stronghold of a Chamic people in this world. It's special, to them, to me. Acehnese people are my loved ones, my relatives, my family. If Aceh remains part of Indonesia, it will suffer the same fate the Acehnese and other natives of Sumatera have seen in the east of the island: transmigration and slow destruction of the indigenous cultures that live there.

What risk is there in supporting separatism? Aceh is still poor, still developing. If they left Indonesia it would be a lateral move at worst, and I argue at least then they'd be fully in charge of their resources. Indonesia does not "defend" them from anything, Aceh has no fear of foreign foes other than Indonesia at this time. I honestly cannot imagine any real benefit to staying part of Indonesia.

The reality is that Indonesia will not let them go, not without a fight. The real question is not "why support separatism," the real question is "why can't Indonesia let them go?"

 

[nd_eric_77]

The reality is that Indonesia will not let them go, not without a fight. The real question is not "why support separatism," the real question is "why can't Indonesia let them go?"

Because emas. IMHO, the reason Indonesia cannot let go of Aceh has nothing to do with Aceh. If Indonesia lets Aceh go, Papua - and all the gold therein - will be the next province to fall. Indonesia could survive without Aceh (albeit with its precious ego wounded), but Indonesia cannot afford to lose Papua.

 

[Dan]

Because emas. IMHO, the reason Indonesia cannot let go of Aceh has nothing to do with Aceh. If Indonesia lets Aceh go, Papua - and all the gold therein - will be the next province to fall. Indonesia could survive without Aceh (albeit with its precious ego wounded), but Indonesia cannot afford to lose Papua.

And how will the Papuans achieve that? By some estimates, they are already a minority in their own homeland. That's it, game over.

Now, I do agree that their concern with Aceh is that the fire of insurrection will spread to other provinces. A lot of indigenous peoples want what Aceh has, and more. West Papua and Papua are in a similar situation to Aceh's some decades back when Aceh was seen as "resource rich" during the height of natural gas production.

The gas fields are mostly dried up, so perhaps Indonesia can learn to let go of Aceh. Now that they've sucked the blood out of it, that is.

They'll do the same to the Papuans. It's how colonialism works.

 

[rabbit_39]

What about the special allocation fund for Aceh, Papua, and West Papua? In 2017 they received close to 20 trillion rupiah, right around 1.5 billion USD. This is in addition to the usual provincial budget etc that everyone gets.

I guess either we have been talking to different people from the three provinces, or they're telling you different things than what they tell my Indonesian engineers, technicians and community development experts when they visited those three provinces.