Credit card for foreigner

[jstar]

Did they block Visa/MC directly or block the issuing bank.

if credit card companies Mastercard and Visa blocked all Russian citizen's payments

Visa said all transactions initiated with their cards issued in Russia will no longer work outside the country and that Visa cards issued by financial institutions outside of the country will no longer work within Russia. And MasterCard made similar statements.

It’s rather interesting to see that both prevent cross-border transactions, but that they also allowed to have all domestic transactions in Russia still continuing after a switch by the Russian central bank.

So they suspended their network services and have nothing to do with domestic transactions anymore, even can’t block them.

 

[Samoerai]

Of course the current BI / Indonesian government plans are (practically) based on the MIR system.

I didn't know that. So BI and all banks in Indonesia depend on the Russian payment processing system?

 

[jstar]

Of course the current BI / Indonesian government plans are (practically) based on the MIR system.

Mir (payment system) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

All to circumvent the dependency on foreign payment processing companies which are pushed by foreign governments to stop their activities in the country. The same for Apple Pay and Google Pay of course.

Apple blocked the use of the Apple Pay system in combination with the MIR credit cards btw.

So even if you have a ‘local’ card and payment system, foreign sites using these can still be prohibited and stopped of course. (Think of eBay, PayPal, AliExpress, Amazon, …) So then only the domestic payments are safeguarded.

Those MIR cards were accepted in 10 countries in the world, and in 11 others its implementation was being assessed.

Now obviously it’s not really shocking if you see where: Armenia, Vietnam, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Belarus, South Ossetia, Abkhazia and South Korea. The latter is somewhat of a surprise, I wonder if they blocked them now.

That Indonesian (BI) card could of course be used in the ASEAN countries, which would already be interesting for quite some people.

.

 

[jstar]

I didn't know that. So BI and all banks in Indonesia depend on the Russian payment processing system?

No sorry, what I meant was the same concept.

 

[Samoerai]

No sorry, what I meant was the same concept.

I see, the concept/idea that BI doesn't want to depend on foreign credit payment systems/companies, like Mastercard and Visa.

 

[jstar]

Yes, that National Payment Gateway (GPN) from Bank Indonesia I was talking about, was introduced in 2017. The Russians have something similar which they introduced in 2014 after Crimea, it is called SPFS. And India has NEFT as their own gateway with RuPay as a network with cards. Also available as credit card, India has more success in getting it accepted in other countries. So Indonesia can apply the CASE (Copy And Steal Everything) methodology to get this system in place…

 

[Samoerai]

Even with a credit card, other banks usually will still ask you for deposit also - because BI needs the money ;-)

btw what happens to the deposit, let's say 130 million? When one use the creditcard, will the bank credit the deposit? Or credit one's bank account?

 

[snpark]

No your limit matches the deposit. That's kept in a seperate account as security
The card works fine and you pay every month as normal. But at all times you have a security deposit with the bank in case you run away
Until they trust you enough to use their money not your own

 

[pantaiema]

I remembered there were a discussion previously about credit-card where people were asked to put deposit first and they still called it credit card with different name such as "secured credit card". There are also "pre-paid credit card" (so they call it) to be used as currency card where you load certain amount of money and then spend it to whatever currency you want using their own exchange rate. Certainly they could call it whatever they want. Probably they name it credit card as it sounds posh and bear a certain social status. It is named as such to con people, making people feeling good thinking they are getting a credit-card as common people understand it. Keep in mind not many people could get credit-card (in traditional term). Only people with certain level of income, credit history could get credit cards.

Whatever they call it, but from the name suggest "CREDITcard". Credit means you take credit from the bank and pay it later. If you are just using your own money you have deposited / saved in the bank then this is not taking credit. Looking into the way they are functioning, this is just a debit-card without a current account, a saving card or a pre-paid currency card.

 

[Samoerai]

Looking into the way they are functioning, this is just a debit-card without a current account

Well, that was my question previously. Is it a prepaid creditcard (meaning: you load money on it, but you can pay with it everywhere) OR is it a normal creditcard (meaning the creditcard company VISA / MASTERCARD gives you the credit) but with a deposit that the bank keeps save e.g. in case you run away. That's a big difference. As I understand from @snpark it's is a normal creditcard.

 

[snpark]

That's a preloaded debit card
Debits from whatever is in your card only NOT your account so therefore fraud risk minimised they can only take what's on the card
Not clean your account dry

 

[jstar]

There is a good alternate name for a ‘prepaid creditcard’…… debit card

If doesn’t really exist of course. The fact that many credit cards are handed out by banks and that many people have some kind of auto debit on their account (in the west, not here!) doesn’t change the fact you get the possibility of a delayed payback. So a deposit / collateral is to avoid damage from you running away yes.

I have one of these hoarders at home that does the credit card collecting thing. She has 6 cards on average since I asked her to wind down (it was really ridiculous before). Of course at every restaurant or online order there’s a nice discount. But with the e-wallet systems that becomes less and less relevant.

 

[Samoerai]

I have one of these hoarders at home that does the credit card collecting thing.

 

[Samoerai]

But with the e-wallet systems that becomes less and less relevant.

7 Aplikasi E-Wallet Paling Banyak Digunakan di Indonesia

Tren e-wallet terus meningkat seiring pertumbuhan pesat transaksi digital. Menurutmu, apa saja aplikasi yang populer dan banyak digunakan masyarakat?

www.telkomsel.com

 

[fastpitch17]

If you want to use any type of Indonesian bank card on line you have to have a credit card. They will not accept a debit card. My US debit card is accepted as a credit card everywhere but not local cards. Ecash is best and discounts are available and the banks really want you to use their online systems. Many time banks have discounts/points if you use their debit cards in a brick and mortar store. Bigger discounts using their credit cards.

 

[pantaiema]

I have one of these hoarders at home that does the credit card collecting thing. She has 6 cards on average since I asked her to wind down (it was really ridiculous before). Of course at every restaurant or online order there’s a nice discount. But with the e-wallet systems that becomes less and less relevant.

I personally have more than that, and I am not considering myself as a hoarder. Keep in mind it is highly unlikely you could get all of the perks, benefits which might come with the credit cards by simply having one card. A few to name:

• Free International Travel Insurance
• Cashback on purchase using your Creditcard
• Zero interest on Balance Transfer, or zero interest for purchase for a few months/years
• Free loading/fees for transaction in foreign currencies
• While most creditcards will apply interest for ATM cash withdrawal on the day of cash withdrawal, a few Credit card will give you a grace period without paying daily interest until the next statement date.
• You want to keep your oldest credit card, to show your credit histories and stability in managing your personal finances to be recorded by Credit reference agencies
• You want to keep the credit card with the highest limit
• Using a different Payment network so at least one Master and one Visa. In case one network has issue with its network while you are away from home and desperetaely need to use your credit card, you still have one backup to use.
• You might use the creditcard to generate a small direct debit, as sometimes your bank will give you a higher interest rate if you have direct debit coming from your current accounts.

That is already nine. Nowadays it is easy to consolidate all of the cards in one fintech app, and simply choose which one you want to use, so no need to carry all of them with you all the time.

You might not get those credit card benefit issued by Indonesian banks, but I personally know a few people in Indonesia have more than a dozen creditcards, as they get discount varies around 15-35% for eating out in particular restaurants.

So I do not think those who have a lot of credit-cards are hoarders as long as as they use it tactically and it costs nothing to get it and to keep it.

 

[Samoerai]

I have a creditcard from ING/The Netherlands. I only use it for emergencies. Using this creditcard is 'mahal banget'.

1. Payments in foreign currencies are subject to a so-called 'exchange rate surcharge'. This means that the exchange rate is increased by 2.00% per transaction.
2. If you want to withdraw cash from an ATM with your Credit Card, you pay 4% of the withdrawn amount with a minimum of € 4.50 per withdrawal. If your withdrawal is in a currency other than the euro, you pay an additional exchange rate surcharge of 2.00% per withdrawal.

So, that's why I want to apply for a creditcard in Indonesia and ask previously those questions.

 

[pantaiema]

I have a creditcard from ING/The Netherlands. I only use it for emergencies. Using this creditcard is 'mahal banget'.

1. Payments in foreign currencies are subject to a so-called 'exchange rate surcharge'. This means that the exchange rate is increased by 2.00% per transaction.
2. If you want to withdraw cash from an ATM with your Credit Card, you pay 4% of the withdrawn amount with a minimum of € 4.50 per withdrawal. If your withdrawal is in a currency other than the euro, you pay an additional exchange rate surcharge of 2.00% per withdrawal.

So, that's why I want to apply for a creditcard in Indonesia and ask previously those questions.

That is the way, many banks make money from people who do not pay attention to various fees incurred. But in some countries there are a few specialist credit cards where you get all of that with zero fees, near perfect exchange rate e.g using Master/VIsa, Mid market exchange rate without fee added.

For No1. Could you not use your N26 credit/debit card ?? N26 offers zero fees for transaction in foreign currencies. Alternatively Wise

For 2. I am not quite sure whether Indonesian Bank will allow you to withdraw cash from ATM using Credit card without advanced payment fees. Here we are referring to a truly credit card as people understand it, not a dupe credit card aiming to con people by asking people to put a certain amount of money into saving earning a pittance interest rate or no interest at all. If it is a truly credit card people should be able to withdraw cash from any ATM in Indonesia, not only depend on a particular bank ATM. Instead of using credit-card, for cash withdrawal from ATM, could you not just use your debit card issued by Indonesian Bank ??

 

[Samoerai]

That is the way, many banks make money from people who do not pay attention about fees. But in some countries there are a few credit cards where you get all of that with zero fees, near perfect exchange rate e.g using Master/VIsa, Mid market exchange rate without fee added.

For No1. Could you not use your N26 credit/debit card ?? N26 offers zero fees for transaction in foreign currencies. Alternatively Wise

For 2. I am not quite sure whether Indonesian Bank will allow you to withdraw cash from ATM using Credit card without advanced payment fees. Here we are referring to a truly credit card as people understand it, not a dupe credit card aiming to con people by asking people to put a certain amount of money into saving earning a pittance interest rate or no interest at all. If it is a truly credit card people should be able to withdraw cash from any ATM in Indonesia, not only depend on a particular bank ATM. Instead of using credit-card, for cash withdrawal from ATM, could you not just use your debit card issued by Indonesian Bank ??

I have also a ING debit card, which I also use only in emergencies, because of the extra fee of 3,50 euro every time I withdraw money at the ATM + a terrible exchange rate.

Luckely I have a bankaccount here in Indonesia + debitcard. So, I use Wise to transfer money to it.

But, an Indonesian credit card is what I need.

 

[Samoerai]

The other day, someone told me that 1% of the Indonesian people are labeled 'rich'.

So, he asked me ... how much money/capital do you need to belong to that 1% ...?
I didn't know ... must be '2 or more trillions', I said
No, he said ... only '1 billion rupiah'.

So, would this be 'benar'?
Are there some statistics to verify this?