Gloria Natapradja: Young girl's dream crushed by Indonesian citizenship law

[Wisnu]

I'm more interested with this young lady, if anything we can do to help her. She is innocent.
I heard there's small demo to support her to be paskibraka and petition in change.org


Edit by Dafluff:

Found a link in English. I saw it on today's Jakarta Post, but could not find an online version. The link below is the article verbatim however.

http://annx.asianews.network/content...ship-law-25608

PS: Also changed thread title to be more descriptive of the situation.

 

[Puspawarna]

Can you provide readers with some links that you think describe the case well?

 

[rabbit_39]

She wants to be a what?

 

[Wisnu]

http://news.detik.com/read/2016/08/...tuk-gloria-paskibraka-di-menit-menit-terakhir


Ps.
I'm not able to acces this forum from my office computer. Use mobile. Hopefully the link I copy and paste is working

 

[Wisnu]

I can't find link in English.
She is 16 years old, was born in Indonesia from indonesian mother and French father. She has French passport but unfortunately she does not have ibdonesian passport.
After working hard for months, they refuse her from the sacred flag hoisting troop for tommorow celebration

 

[Alia]

I've signed the petition, she is a victim I can say, poor girl.

 

[dafluff]

My own commentary: This one pisses me off more than the Arcandra case, because in this case the victim is a 16 year old girl. Unfortunately I can't find any confirmation of her dual citizenship status. It is said she has a French passport, but never did get an Indonesian one. She also has some sort of stay permit valid until 2021, which seems to me is a KITAP, but the Minister of Youth called it a temporary stay permit, so I don't know exactly what it is.

The comment by a high ranking police officer in charge of Paskibraka training is also interesting:

Jakarta Garrison I chief Brig. Gen. Yosua Pandit Sembiring, whose unit is in charge of the Paskibraka boot camp, said the State Palace would be off-limits for Gloria.

“Citizens will lose their citizenship if they have a [foreign] passport. Gloria has that,” said Yosua. “We must comply with the law.”

Which we know is not true, due to dual citizenship allowance until children reach 18 years of age. But this guy is a police Brigadier General and doesn't know that...oh well.

For those who don't know, Paskibraka is a unit that once a year hoists the national flag during independence day ceremonies. The highest level of which is of course the state palace, although provincial and regency capitals also have their own. The members of Paskibraka are high school students, and in the case of the national team, each province sends one male and one female to Jakarta each year, and they are often top honor students (or also often children of provincial officials, but whatever). It is very competitive and also prestigious for the chosen students who spent over one month drilling for the job.

 

[Davita]

Re: post # 7 by Dafluff

Sorry....I've duplicated your observation on the other thread concerning Arcandra as I didn't see this 'till after posting.

My understanding is that a child, born in Indonesia to one parent being a citizen, automatically confers citizenship. A passport is only a travel document. My mother was Scottish and never had a passport....

Her parents must have purposefully applied for her French citizenship as that would not have been automatic....Atlantis, I recall, has the details of how those children could enable dual-nationality.

BTW she also looks Indonesian...and cute, with hair and didn't....

 

[atlantis]

Which we know is not true, due to dual citizenship allowance until children reach 18 years of age. But this guy is a police Brigadier General and doesn't know that...oh well.

It may be not a case of him not being aware of it, Dafluff, but a case of us having only partial information on and missing to read the fine prints and deduct from it.

First of all I would like to say that, as certainly anyone here, I find this case a real shame for Indonesia.

To better understand BrigJenPol Sembiring comment you have to keep in mind an important detail: her age. She is 16 and therefore is born in 2000, 6 years before the enactment of UU 12/2011 which has granted dual citizenship to kids born from a mixed marriage.

If kids born after August 1st, 2006 are said as being dual citizen, it is NOT AT ALL the same for those born prior to August 1st, 2006, like one of my kid and like Gloria. These kids were born foreigner if their father was foreigner and at the enactment of UU 6/2011 they did NOT become automatically dual citizen.

Concerning Theo, my son, I had to process his naturalization, and to do so there was a time limit (August 1st, 2009 as per UU 12/2006). Many parents of kids born prior to August 2006 were not aware of this time limit. Others already managed to get an Indonesian passport (obviously by dodgy means) and then were screwed when the law took force and were unable to register the dual citizenship of their kids because he/she was already a citizen, at least officially if not legally...etc.

Sometimes the kid was Indonesian by law (parents not being married and therefore kids not having officially a father, allowing him her to be WNI) but the parents managed to get the father's citizenship to the kid through the father's country of origin embassy. This defacto dual citizenship was illegal under Indonesian law and many parents when the new citizenship came to force were afraid to be in trouble and therefore didn't legalized the situation.

Just around me, I know quite a few kids of Gloria's age whose dual citizenship or even sole Indonesian citizenship is dodgy and could be challenged legally.

There is in fact quite a few possibilities to explain BrigJenPol Sembiring's words. He may well talk out of his ass, but it also could easily could be that, as for many kids of Gloria's age, her dual citizenship has not been properly registered.

What I want to say you Dafluff, is that when you have a kid born prior to August 2006, there is no such thing as an automatic dual citizenship allowance until children reach 18 years of age. It had to be processed, and many kids have been left out of the procedure for a wide array of reasons.

 

[fastpitch17]

http://jakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/...dismissed-independence-day-flag-raising-team/

http://jakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/...petition-bring-gloria-back-flag-raising-team/

 

[dafluff]

It may be not a case of him not being aware of it, Dafluff, but a case of us having only partial information on and missing to read the fine prints and deduct from it.

First of all I would like to say that, as certainly anyone here, I find this case a real shame for Indonesia.

To better understand BrigJenPol Sembiring comment you have to keep in mind an important detail: her age. She is 16 and therefore is born in 2000, 6 years before the enactment of UU 12/2011 which has granted dual citizenship to kids born from a mixed marriage.

If kids born after August 1st, 2006 are said as being dual citizen, it is NOT AT ALL the same for those born prior to August 1st, 2006, like one of my kid and like Gloria. These kids were born foreigner if their father was foreigner and at the enactment of UU 6/2011 they did NOT become automatically dual citizen.

Concerning Theo, my son, I had to process his naturalization, and to do so there was a time limit (August 1st, 2009 as per UU 12/2006). Many parents of kids born prior to August 2006 were not aware of this time limit. Others already managed to get an Indonesian passport (obviously by dodgy means) and then were screwed when the law took force and were unable to register the dual citizenship of their kids because he/she was already a citizen, at least officially if not legally...etc. Just around me, I know quite a few kids of Gloria's age whose dual citizenship or even sole Indonesian citizenship is dodgy and could be challenged legally.

There is in fact quite a few possibilities to explain BrigJenPol Sembiring's words. He may well talk out of his ass, but it also could easily could be that, as for many kids of Gloria's age, her dual citizenship has not been properly registered.

What I want to say you Dafluff, is that when you have a kid born prior to August 2006, there is no such thing as an automatic dual citizenship allowance until children reach 18 years of age. It had to be processed, and many kids have been left out of the procedure for a wide array of reasons.

Thank you for your elaboration. Great to have these posts to dig out all that information buried inside that head of yours!

But strictly speaking from the quoted article, the general was wrong. He specifically said that Indonesians lose their citizenship when they obtain a foreign passport while referring to someone who may be eligible for dual nationality. We know ownership of a foreign passport does not negate citizenship for dual national children up to the age of 21. If he had said that she was never a citizen or not a dual citizen since she was never registered then that would be different.

Finally it really shouldn't matter whether she is a citizen or not. These hyper-nationalistic laws are a mockery and makes Indonesia look like a small-minded nation. She is not applying for state benefits or a high ranking office, she is just marching with 60+ other kids to raise a flag. I don't care if they call it a sacred flag or whatever.

 

[William King]

These hyper-nationalistic laws are a mockery and makes Indonesia look like a small-minded nation.

Perhaps there's a reason for that...

 

[fastpitch17]

Perhaps there's a reason for that...

Maybe because it is a small minded nation that puts too much emphases on religion practices then it does it constitution.

 

[Davita]

According to Wiki....
Generally, Indonesian citizens are those natural Indonesian people and those of other nationalities that are endorsed by the law as Indonesian citizens. Indonesian nationality regulated by Law No. 12/2006 (UU No. 12 Tahun 2006). The Indonesian nationality law is based on jus sanguinis and jus soli. The Indonesian nationality law does not recognize dual citizenship except for persons under the age of 18 (single citizenship principle). After reaching 18 years of age individuals must choose one citizenship (limited double citizenship principle).

Indonesian citizen

An Indonesian citizen is:

• one who before the enactment of this law was already an Indonesian citizen
• a child from a legal marriage whose parents are Indonesian citizens
• a child from a legal marriage whose father is an Indonesian citizen and mother is a foreign citizen
• a child from a legal marriage whose mother is an Indonesian citizen and father is a foreign citizen

I'm aware that wiki isn't always accurate but If this is correct this makes Gloria an automatic Indonesian citizen...passport or no passport.

 

[dafluff]

According to Wiki....
Generally, Indonesian citizens are those natural Indonesian people and those of other nationalities that are endorsed by the law as Indonesian citizens. Indonesian nationality regulated by Law No. 12/2006 (UU No. 12 Tahun 2006). The Indonesian nationality law is based on jus sanguinis and jus soli. The Indonesian nationality law does not recognize dual citizenship except for persons under the age of 18 (single citizenship principle). After reaching 18 years of age individuals must choose one citizenship (limited double citizenship principle).

Indonesian citizen

An Indonesian citizen is:

• one who before the enactment of this law was already an Indonesian citizen
• a child from a legal marriage whose parents are Indonesian citizens
• a child from a legal marriage whose father is an Indonesian citizen and mother is a foreign citizen
• a child from a legal marriage whose mother is an Indonesian citizen and father is a foreign citizen

I'm aware that wiki isn't always accurate but If this is correct this makes Gloria an automatic citizen...passport or no passport.

That is correct for children born after 2006 (after the law passed), but it is not retroactive to kids born earlier such as Gloria, unless specifically applied for. Just like in Atlantis' elaboration.

 

[Davita]

That is correct for children born after 2006 (after the law passed), but it is not retroactive to kids born earlier such as Gloria, unless specifically applied for. Just like in Atlantis' elaboration.

Thanks for that...I was just about to correct it myself when I realized she was born before the UU changed to allow equal-gender parents in this regard.

 

[dafluff]

Some good news! Gloria was invited by President Jokowi to lunch at the palace (the only one of the team to receive the honor) and was reinstated in time to do the afternoon ceremony.


Finally someone in the government (most likely Jokowi himself) realized the ridiculousness of the whole situation, the amazing photo opportunities this presents, and showed some leadership. Good outcome for Gloria and Jokowi both.

(image from Kompas)

 

[atlantis]

This is a super news, D. I was fearing for her. At 16, having her name put forward like that and being denied to do something which was certainly very important for her, may have traumatized her. Good on Jokowi. Merdeka!

 

[fastpitch17]

Some good news! Gloria was invited by President Jokowi to lunch at the palace (the only one of the team to receive the honor) and was reinstated in time to do the afternoon ceremony.


Finally someone in the government (most likely Jokowi himself) realized the ridiculousness of the whole situation, the amazing photo opportunities this presents, and showed some leadership. Good outcome for Gloria and Jokowi both.

Good for him or them or who ever. It was the right move except I wouldn't have singled her out for the invitation. It was a team to begin with.

 

[dafluff]

Good for him or them or who ever. It was the right move except I wouldn't have singled her out for the invitation. It was a team to begin with.

I believe it is customary for the team also to have a meeting/dinner with the President at some point. I think after the two ceremonies. She was invited for lunch as to not be left out while her team is doing the morning ceremony.