Shortage of 498,000 teachers in Indonesia next year?

[Balifrog]

Throwing a wrench in the gears here, but several Middle East, Muslim countries have a high level of education.
Jordan, Iran and till some time ago Lebanon..

Ever tried a business negociation with a Lebanese guy ?
I have seen a money discussion between a Lebanese and a Vietnamese.... They simply hated each other ! It was all about who is going to screw the other party....

 

[jstar]

Some yes. Mainly the ones that are or very rich or focused on western countries. Like parts of Jordan and the capital. Iran was before the Islamic revolution very liberal. And Lebanon was never a real Muslim country, the business partners we had there were all Christian.

 

[Pak Tani]

In Indonesian public schools there is almost no time spent on learning Arabic. It's the Pondok Pesantren where people go to learn about Islam besides the complete or partial national curriculum. Approximately 15% of school children go to these types of schools. Yes, they spend time there to learn Arabic, maybe even 20% of their time, who knows.
Back home there are schools that teach classical languages, Latin and ancient Greek. Students spend up to 3 + 3 hours per week on these subjects. The ROI is not easy to measure on the resources invested in these subjects. Yet nobody calls these students 'handicapped' for 'wasting time' on learning languages nobody speaks anymore.
There is a lot of room for improvement in the Indonesian educational system to create a better educated generation, everyone agrees. But if one thinks the solution is closing all pondok pesantrens and to stop teaching Arabic, he doesn't understand a part of Indonesian society.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

We all understand Indonesian society and why it's impossible to close these schools. It is also a major reason why the country is so uneducated and will never escape being a poor country. Both things can be true.

 

[Hawk256]

We all understand Indonesian society and why it's impossible to close these schools. It is also a major reason why the country is so uneducated and will never escape being a poor country. Both things can be true.

Not really sure why you chose to be here. You seem to dislike most everything about the country. You knew this was the country with the largest Muslim population in the world, right? Do you have anything positive to say about Indonesia?

 

[jstar]

In Indonesian public schools there is almost no time spent on learning Arabic. It's the Pondok Pesantren where people go to learn about Islam besides the complete or partial national curriculum.

No, that’s somewhat of a misunderstanding; a pesantran is a (religious) boarding school. But there are also so called madrasahs which as day schools can be state-run (Madrasah Negeri) or private (Madrasah Swasta). Mostly the latter, and there are approx. 84.000 of these schools. They’re not managed by the ministry of education but -as one could expect- under control of the ministry of religion. So where would the focus be then? A conservative estimate is that 30% of their time, the kid’s education is religion related. Whether that’s a lot or not, I leave up to you to judge.
.

 

[Wisnu]

In Indonesian public schools there is almost no time spent on learning Arabic. It's the Pondok Pesantren where people go to learn about Islam besides the complete or partial national curriculum. Approximately 15% of school children go to these types of schools. Yes, they spend time there to learn Arabic, maybe even 20% of their time, who knows.
Back home there are schools that teach classical languages, Latin and ancient Greek. Students spend up to 3 + 3 hours per week on these subjects. The ROI is not easy to measure on the resources invested in these subjects. Yet nobody calls these students 'handicapped' for 'wasting time' on learning languages nobody speaks anymore.
There is a lot of room for improvement in the Indonesian educational system to create a better educated generation, everyone agrees. But if one thinks the solution is closing all pondok pesantrens and to stop teaching Arabic, he doesn't understand a part of Indonesian society.

That was my personal experience in elementary, middle, and high school in Indonesia 4-5 decades ago, and also my children when we were still living in Indonesia; never studied Arabic. Indeed, we learned to read the Quran as part of Islamic religious studies, it was only 2 hours every week. Nowadays I believe it's not much different. I don't know much about the curriculum in Islamic boarding schools and madrasah, but @Pak Tani 's explanation seems very reasonable. What I know in Egypt (6 years living there) there are around 3000 Indonesian students and around 5000 Malaysian students studying at Al Azhar University in Cairo. I know about 30 of them personally because I often play badminton together. Most of them come from Islamic boarding schools and madrasah from various regions in Indonesia. They seem intelligent, of course fluent in Arabic and quite good in English. I don't know whether they later will live decent or not, but quite a few important figures in this country are graduates of Islamic boarding schools, including Gus Dur, Mahmud MD, and Nurcholis Majid. I've been fortunate enough to meet Nurcholis Majid several times and have great respect for his intellect. I also know a number scientists with doctoral degrees abroad who have completed the Quran and are fluent in Arabic and other languages. What I want to say here is that many people who take the time to study the Quran and Arabic are not stupid at all, in fact, many of them are far smarter and more successful than me, who is pathetic in the Quran and only speak shukran despite living in an Arabic-speaking country for 6 years.
I do agree there's big gap and various issues in education in Indonesia that requires improvement regardless teaching Arabic or not. Many students in remote schools, especially in eastern Indonesia, are in a very sad situation.

 

[jstar]

Not really sure why you chose to be here. You seem to dislike most everything about the country. You knew this was the country with the largest Muslim population in the world, right? Do you have anything positive to say about Indonesia?

This is only one step away from the moronic argument “if you don’t like it here, leave”.

I know for sure Herbert has much more experience with this society than the majority of the forum members and is definitely entitled to his opinion.

Which could be somewhat agonizing yes. But in the past (forum) it got much harder and many (who lived here for decades and were fully integrated) were convinced a lack of iodine was the main reason for a backward society. And yes, some did leave.

 

[jstar]

Since we are sharing personal experiences my 2 rupiah:

The ex Asisten Rumah Tangga (PC, they still say maid over here unless on TV) of my mother in law visited her during Chinese New Year. Nice, she took her two kids. She was proud to say the eldest attended a high quality madrasah which was not cheap.

When the 8 (?) year old saw the cross with Jesus on the wall he pointed at it and whispered to his mother: “Mami, Setan?”

 

[harryopal1]

Since we are sharing personal experiences my 2 rupiah:

The ex Asisten Rumah Tangga (PC, they still say maid over here unless on TV) of my mother in law visited her during Chinese New Year. Nice, she took her two kids. She was proud to say the eldest attended a high quality madrasah which was not cheap.

When the 8 (?) year old saw the cross with Jesus on the wall he pointed at it and whispered to his mother: “Mami, Setan?”

I thought that Jesus was recognized in Islam as a prophet.

 

[jstar]

Of course

 

[Dave70]

Since we are sharing personal experiences my 2 rupiah:

The ex Asisten Rumah Tangga (PC, they still say maid over here unless on TV) of my mother in law visited her during Chinese New Year. Nice, she took her two kids. She was proud to say the eldest attended a high quality madrasah which was not cheap.

When the 8 (?) year old saw the cross with Jesus on the wall he pointed at it and whispered to his mother: “Mami, Setan?”

What are they teaching at the madrasah? Intolerance? Hate?

I wonder how the mother responded, it must be embarrassing for her.

 

[Hawk256]

This is only one step away from the moronic argument “if you don’t like it here, leave”.

And you really know moronic arguments. Don't put words into other people's mouths. I certainly have never put them in yours.

 

[harryopal1]

If a student sees Christ, one of their own prophets as Satan, it suggets perhaps rather poisonous attitudes to western influences. It does not sound like a very healthy environment given the oft repeated assertion that Islam is a religion of peace.-

 

[Wisnu]

If a student sees Christ, one of their own prophets as Satan, it suggets perhaps rather poisonous attitudes to western influences. It does not sound like a very healthy environment given the oft repeated assertion that Islam is a religion of peace.-

I have been interacting with many people and have heard various intolerant statements but typically addressed to the adherents, not to the prophets. In fact, we're asked to remember the name of the 25
prophets by singing a song that I can still remember until now.
It is uncommon for maid kids whispered (but can be heard by other) very negative comments at their mom employer home. Typicaly they are very shy.

 

[Wisnu]

Not really sure why you chose to be here. You seem to dislike most everything about the country. You knew this was the country with the largest Muslim population in the world, right? Do you have anything positive to say about Indonesia?

I remember when I was assigned to an hardship country working on one of the most challenging energy projects in the world, had a colleague who always complained about everything—whether it was his local team, working conditions, local culture, food, drinks, his local girlfriend, ect —everything was always negative. Seem like he live in the hell. He always compared the situation to his country. We fellow expats were tired of hearing it. My boss even scold him, "If everything's easy, we don't need you, no need to mobilize expensive expat.

Interestingly, when his contract wasn't renewed, he begged to be extended and not repatriated.

In my experience, the coworkers who complain the most are the least competent. They complain and blame others to hide their incompetence.

 

[Pak Tani]

What are they teaching at the madrasah? Intolerance? Hate?

There is a religion that teaches its followers to hate Jesus, that he was a liar, a sorcerer, and an adulterer, and that he will burn in excrement in hell. But I assume you know very well that this religion is not Islam, David.
Islam teaches us that Jesus was a prophet and one of the best people who ever lived on earth. However, Muslims believe that Jesus was created by God and that, as part of creation, he may not be worshipped. Only the Creator has the right to be worshipped.
If there is an eight-year-old child who does not know this, he must be taught to respect Jesus as a prophet.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Jesus was the son of God, not a prophet. It's written in the bible. How would you like it if people start saying incorrect things about your top guy on a public forum?

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Incidentally I just spent a great couple of weeks in Malaysia. Didn't hear a mosque loudspeaker once, and only even saw about 3. And it's literally an islamic country.
Indonesia has got the implementation of it seriously and haramly wrong.

 

[Bad_azz]

How is it that every post in here almost, no matter what it is about, turns into moaning about Islam or Islamic practices? Guys , seriously grow up and just make a bashing whoever whatever topic somewhere you can be contained and stop contaminating the space all over the forum.
It got old years ago.