Indonesian Youth and Smoking

[serious_fun]

A short documentary about Indonesian youth and tobacco use.


I wonder who those Chocolate Djarum billboards are targeting?

 

[Hawk256]

A short documentary about Indonesian youth and tobacco use.


I wonder who those Chocolate Djarum billboards are targeting?

The ones showing a nasty tracheotomy? Not sure I buy that they are targeting youth. They said the same thing with vape flavors but it turns out that older people actually like cinabun flavored vapes more than they like nasty tobacco. The youth would still pickup smoking no matter what the flavor. That has been the case since the discovery of tobacco.

 

[Balifrog]

In most Indo guys mind, if you don't smoke (at 15), you're not a man....
Well, remember the Marlboro cowboy....

 

[serious_fun]

The ones showing a nasty tracheotomy?

IMHO the images of smoke related injuries/diseases do nothing to discourage smokers. Look at the use of color to essentially hide the image on packaging. Very sneaky while being in compliance with the regulation.

Banning public advertisements for cancer sticks is what should be done without delay.

Perhaps islamic scholars or spokespeople could show some genuine concern for youth and make public statements/start a campaign?* That may be the way to alter village mentality.

*has it already been done?

 

[serious_fun]

Well, remember the Marlboro cowboy....

He died of lung cancer and heart disease years ago.

 

[snpark]

And Dr Atkins of diet fame infamously died by slipping on ice outside his apartment and smacking his head

Life is full of irony. Steve Irwin being sadly one of them

And all the comedians who commit suicide from depression

 

[snpark]

In most Indo guys mind, if you don't smoke (at 15), you're not a man....
Well, remember the Marlboro cowboy....

View attachment 5535

Lucky he had a buddy wingman, although sadly he died got run over by a school bus

 

[Balifrog]

He died of lung cancer and heart disease years ago.

Well, even at that time he was older than me...
I respect signiority...

 

[Hawk256]

Banning public advertisements for cancer sticks is what should be done without delay.

The US did that years ago. It didn't directly affect the number of smokers from what I remember. And they are still better than the "ask your doctor" commercials. Most of the time, the side effects are worse that what they are treating. Surely no other countries are allowing that.

 

[harryopal1]

In most Indo guys mind, if you don't smoke (at 15), you're not a man....
Well, remember the Marlboro cowboy....

View attachment 5535

Prominent actors, became Marlboro Men including Wayne McLaren, David McLean, Dick Hammer, and Eric Lawson, all died of smoking-related illnesses

 

[Hawk256]

I have always wondered why the Native Americans that smoked pure, home grown tobacco didn't have the rate of smoking illnesses that regular cigarette smokers had. 80-90 year olds smoking like a chimney with relatively clear lungs. Maybe it's more the chemicals that the cigarette manufacturers are putting in the cigarettes?

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Perhaps islamic scholars or spokespeople could show some genuine concern for youth and make public statements/start a campaign?* That may be the way to alter village mentality.

If they were being consistent then smoking would clearly be haram, because tobacco is a stimulant. However they enjoy it too much to ban it. Apparently it was once banned for a short time in Mecca but then miraculously became halal again when too many people complained.
Which makes me think, do cigarettes have halal certification?

 

[serious_fun]

However they enjoy it too much to ban it.
Which makes me think, do cigarettes have halal certification?

This is from a quick AI prompt:

Most contemporary scholars and fatwa institutions (such as Muhammadiyah and MUI, referencing the views of academics) tend to prohibit cigarettes because of their health impacts that harm themselves and others.. Cigarettes are considered haram because they damage the body, are wasteful, and contrary to the principles of health in Islam. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
Here are the details related to the law of smoking in Islam:

• Reasons for Retribution (Haram): Smoking is considered to damage the body and cause disease, which is contrary to the teachings of Islam to keep itself from destruction.

nothing that a few brown envelopes of cash can't work around. Just joking - I'd never insinuate such a thing.

 

[serious_fun]

The US did that years ago. It didn't directly affect the number of smokers from what I remember. And they are still better than the "ask your doctor" commercials. Most of the time, the side effects are worse that what they are treating. Surely no other countries are allowing that.

Tobacco advertising + sponsorship bans linked to 20% lower odds of smoking and 37% lower risk of smoking uptake

 

[Hawk256]

Tobacco advertising + sponsorship bans linked to 20% lower odds of smoking and 37% lower risk of smoking uptake

You know this is from an anti tobacco company using pooled data, right? That says a lot on it's own. I say (just like alcohol) kids don't need an advertisement.

 

[Hawk256]

This is from a quick AI prompt:


nothing that a few brown envelopes of cash can't work around. Just joking - I'd never insinuate such a thing.

Fatwa's generally don't revolve around brown envelopes. All Imams I know say smoking is Haram. However the government and religion don't always line up. I know a Muslim that smokes and knows it's Haram, he says it's his sin and it's between him and Allah. Hard to argue that point.

 

[serious_fun]

You know this is from an anti tobacco company using pooled data, right? That says a lot on it's own. I say (just like alcohol) kids don't need an advertisement.

It may be; I didn't check the source but just copied the first URL which the search engine spit up.

The issue isn't really about the efficacy of advertising & imagery, though methinks that advertising tobacco products has a much more powerful effect than we know. I'd be shocked if advertising did NOT have strong effect on wooing new consumers...otherwise why the h3ll would tobacco companies advertise so much ? One cannot escape tobacco advertising in the region where I live. 'Ubiquitous' is an understatement.

 

[serious_fun]

Fatwa's generally don't revolve around brown envelopes. All Imams I know say smoking is Haram. However the government and religion don't always line up. I know a Muslim that smokes and knows it's Haram, he says it's his sin and it's between him and Allah. Hard to argue that point.

I also know a Muslim who smokes.

Oops - correction. Make that millions of Muslims who smoke.

In any case, the thread began as a discussion of YOUTH smoking.

We are, one assumes, reasonably intelligent adults and we do know for a fact that using tobacco products is harmful. Working to hook new 'consumers' to replace the ones who have died is creepy.

Hmmm...Perhaps if the product being sold didn't have life threatening side effects...

 

[Hawk256]

I also know a Muslim who smokes.

Oops - correction. Make that millions of Muslims who smoke.

In any case, the thread began as a discussion of YOUTH smoking.

We are, one assumes, reasonably intelligent adults and we do know for a fact that using tobacco products is harmful. Working to hook new 'consumers' to replace the ones who have died is creepy.

Hmmm...Perhaps if the product being sold didn't have life threatening side effects...

It could be argued that McDonalds has life threatening side effects as well. Colas, candy, so many things. We need to stop the kids for getting into those habits as well.

Unhealthy diets and junk food consumption cause approximately 11 million deaths globally per year. These premature deaths are largely due to non-communicable diseases (NCDs) like cardiovascular disease, cancers, and diabetes, often driven by high salt, sugar, and processed meat consumption, as well as low intake of whole grains and vegetables

 

[Helpful Herbert]

It could be argued that McDonalds has life threatening side effects as well. Colas, candy, so many things. We need to stop the kids for getting into those habits as well.

Unhealthy diets and junk food consumption cause approximately 11 million deaths globally per year.

But this thread is about why millions of Muslims do something that they know to be haram. Are they actually just pretending to be Muslim, and should the official statistics be changed to represent that fact?
If Indonesia is reclassified as a Muslim minority country, after taking out all the smokers, then things could change quite a lot.