Why Indonesia...?

[Hawk256]

Hey that's encouraging to hear thanks. I've dated a few girls from NZ but hmmm the kiwi culture has really changed even from 10 years ago. I blame it on social media. many woman are now only looking for the perfect partner that ticks all the boxes. 6 foot, 6 figures, 6 pack , and 6 in..hes . I only tick one of those boxes

NZ are the same as most Western women and unfortunately means that they may be expecting too much. Not all of course but the number seems to be quickly growing. The best advice I ever got in my life came from an expat in Thailand. He told me to never put more into a relationship than I was willing to walk away from.

 

[flying kiwi]

NZ are the same as most Western women and unfortunately means that they may be expecting too much. Not all of course but the number seems to be quickly growing. The best advice I ever got in my life came from an expat in Thailand. He told me to never put more into a relationship than I was willing to walk away from.

Sooooooo many theories on it . I cant claim to be an expert with 2 failed marriages. But Id like to think Ive learned somthing along the way LOL. So my theory is if both give 100% you can get a pretty robust relationship. But if people only meet half way thats always a transactional thing and if you dont do that then I wont do this . It can spiral down pretty quick. Trick is to find somebody with that generous attitude , and also be that person for your partner.

 

[Shadrach]

Be careful who you take advice from. Some people have absolutely zero experience with the topic they claim to be an expert on. There are people with questionable motives everywhere and you have to use some common sense. There are also some genuinely kind people just looking for a partner.

That's true that there are sincere people out there all over the World. I was just pointing out some of the pitfalls that can, and have happened to many naive travelers seeking Love in a foreign land. You are right about using common sense, and to be patient in matters of the Heart!

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Sooooooo many theories on it . I cant claim to be an expert with 2 failed marriages. But Id like to think Ive learned somthing along the way LOL. So my theory is if both give 100% you can get a pretty robust relationship. But if people only meet half way thats always a transactional thing and if you dont do that then I wont do this . It can spiral down pretty quick. Trick is to find somebody with that generous attitude , and also be that person for your partner.

The problem is it's a lot easier to give 100% of not very much rather than 100% of a lot.
If you marry someone from a poor background you will end up paying a lot to their family in one way or another, it is just there are always things that come up that need money and you will be the person with that money. Refusing to help is a quick way for everything to go downhill in the marriage.
In return you do have a kind of respected position within the family hierarchy.
Examples of some costs from my own experience:
Medical costs for mother in law after a stroke
Full-time carer for her
Grandfather funeral costs
Costs related to settling a property ownership issue
Siblings living with us for several months (at different times)
Paying to get a brother out of some legal trouble
Birthday presents for countless cousins
Flights for siblings to visit
Umroh for m-i-l
Paying rent for one brother and his family for a while when he was unemployed (they'd have been living on the street otherwise)
Etc.

Some I was okay with and some I wasn't very happy about but you have to take the rough with the smooth in this country.

 

[Shadrach]

The problem is it's a lot easier to give 100% of not very much rather than 100% of a lot.
If you marry someone from a poor background you will end up paying a lot to their family in one way or another, it is just there are always things that come up that need money and you will be the person with that money. Refusing to help is a quick way for everything to go downhill in the marriage.
In return you do have a kind of respected position within the family hierarchy.
Examples of some costs from my own experience:
Medical costs for mother in law after a stroke
Full-time carer for her
Grandfather funeral costs
Costs related to settling a property ownership issue
Siblings living with us for several months (at different times)
Paying to get a brother out of some legal trouble
Birthday presents for countless cousins
Flights for siblings to visit
Umroh for m-i-l
Paying rent for one brother and his family for a while when he was unemployed (they'd have been living on the street otherwise)
Etc.

Some I was okay with and some I wasn't very happy about but you have to take the rough with the smooth in this country.

I understand your reasoning about helping cover these expenses. But I think it should not be totally on your shoulders! Some of the expenses were indeed questionable. This is a family affair, and you are not The ATM. I would make sure they understand they have to be responsible for helping covering these debts. Paying for flights, and letting siblings live with you, for several months is not Mandatory. And did the Brother even offer to pay you back for covering his rent?
One you thing you said, I thought was Sad. That if you didn't Pay your marriage would go downhill Fast? Your Marriage should be Based on You and the Wife Loving each Other! Not You being the Bank!

 

[Balifrog]

The problem is it's a lot easier to give 100% of not very much rather than 100% of a lot.
If you marry someone from a poor background you will end up paying a lot to their family in one way or another, it is just there are always things that come up that need money and you will be the person with that money. Refusing to help is a quick way for everything to go downhill in the marriage.
In return you do have a kind of respected position within the family hierarchy.
Examples of some costs from my own experience:
Medical costs for mother in law after a stroke
Full-time carer for her
Grandfather funeral costs
Costs related to settling a property ownership issue
Siblings living with us for several months (at different times)
Paying to get a brother out of some legal trouble
Birthday presents for countless cousins
Flights for siblings to visit
Umroh for m-i-l
Paying rent for one brother and his family for a while when he was unemployed (they'd have been living on the street otherwise)
Etc.

Some I was okay with and some I wasn't very happy about but you have to take the rough with the smooth in this country.

Sorry to COMPLETELY disagree...
You have to set the barrier from day 1.
I have been married 10 years with a Thai, and never got involved with her family.
I am now living (not married) since 9 years with an Indo, and her family (+ all the drama that goes with it) is not my problem.
She has monthly pocket money and she handles.
Somebody of the family living with us is simply a non-subject. There is no way.
I totalize 30 years in SEA and seen enough shit and drama.
Not on my watch !

 

[marcus]

... Refusing to help is a quick way for everything to go downhill in the marriage.

Maybe not quick , but I think that refusing to help probably will damage a marriage (anywhere in the world) .

Examples of some costs from my own experience:
.....
1) Birthday presents for countless cousins
2) Flights for siblings to visit
3) Umroh for m-i-l

I also did/do , except these 3 above .
1) Birthday present or party is prohibited even to me (except to my parents when they were still alive) . I tell to my brothers/sisters/wife : party/present only when someone really deserved .
2) Visits only by bus , train , or ship (the cheapest option) , and only if there is a good reason to come .
3) I tell my wife , better give the money to people in need (and indirectly help the Indonesian economy) .

 

[flying kiwi]

The problem is it's a lot easier to give 100% of not very much rather than 100% of a lot.
If you marry someone from a poor background you will end up paying a lot to their family in one way or another, it is just there are always things that come up that need money and you will be the person with that money. Refusing to help is a quick way for everything to go downhill in the marriage.
In return you do have a kind of respected position within the family hierarchy.
Examples of some costs from my own experience:
Medical costs for mother in law after a stroke
Full-time carer for her
Grandfather funeral costs
Costs related to settling a property ownership issue
Siblings living with us for several months (at different times)
Paying to get a brother out of some legal trouble
Birthday presents for countless cousins
Flights for siblings to visit
Umroh for m-i-l
Paying rent for one brother and his family for a while when he was unemployed (they'd have been living on the street otherwise)
Etc.

Some I was okay with and some I wasn't very happy about but you have to take the rough with the smooth in this country.

The info I am getting here is absolute gold. appreciate the honesty. What would say would be the response if strong boundaries around spending were discussed from the get go? would most woman understand? or would it be seen as cheap and insulting?

 

[flying kiwi]

Sorry to COMPLETELY disagree...
You have to set the barrier from day 1.
I have been married 10 years with a Thai, and never got involved with her family.
I am now living (not married) since 9 years with an Indo, and her family (+ all the drama that goes with it) is not my problem.
She has monthly pocket money and she handles.
Somebody of the family living with us is simply a non-subject. There is no way.
I totalize 30 years in SEA and seen enough shit and drama.
Not on my watch !

sounds like this approach is really working out for you. is your partner an exception or do you think most Indo woman could accept that???

 

[Shadrach]

The info I am getting here is absolute gold. appreciate the honesty. What would say would be the response if strong boundaries around spending were discussed from the get go? would most woman understand? or would it be seen as cheap and insulting?

I think it's a very smart move to set boundaries like these. You are not responsible for the entire family if you want to Love a Woman. If this becomes an issue with the Woman, then maybe She is looking for a Sugar Daddy, not a Mate! I really don't like the attitude of the Indonesian People, thinking We are all Rich, just because we came here. They don't understand, we had to work long hard hours, pay huge taxes, only get short holidays, live in countries where everything is 10 times more expensive. Jealousy is very strong here, even amongst themselves. I've seen many times where people would only help their own families, and no one else. They build high walls because they are afraid of their own neighbors stealing from them.
Usually most people are satisfied, and accept what they have. They are generally curious about us, and love to joke, and have a conversation. With them practicing English, and you practicing Bahasa Indonesia. That's why I have been coming and going to Indonesia for over 30 years. I help when I feel good about it. But when I see Greed, such as they want me to buy them a motorbike or something, or always asking for me to give them something I have. I laughingly say No Way Jose!

 

[Balifrog]

sounds like this approach is really working out for you. is your partner an exception or do you think most Indo woman could accept that???

The term is not "partner" but "companion"..
Very different for me.
And this is the way I am, always have been and if a woman /girl doesn't accept it she is free to go.
As simple as that.
Now, to stay together 9 years it's clear that somewhere somehow we have mutual feelings.
But we are not teenagers and both have a long "history" behind us.
She has worked in SGP and HKG for many years, so she has a bit of knowledge of the outside world and Western men.
And I have "a bit" of knowledge about Asian women.

 

[gemima]

The term is not "partner" but "companion"..
Very different for me.
And this is the way I am, always have been and if a woman /girl doesn't accept it she is free to go.
As simple as that.
Now, to stay together 9 years it's clear that somewhere somehow we have mutual feelings.
But we are not teenagers and both have a long "history" behind us.
She has worked in SGP and HKG for many years, so she has a bit of knowledge of the outside world and Western men.
And I have "a bit" of knowledge about Asian women.

From your online discourse I feel like your GF knows the deal in your relationship, she has lived a life before you and knows how the world works. She is in for the ride and you both know exactly what you BOTH need in life.

I get the feeling that the flying kiwi is over here looking for a nice sweet local girl who has no life experience, is likely a virgin and will be a compliant partner. I dont think you can pick up a girl like that and get the deal Balifrog has with his GF who is clearly a very independent lady in her own right.

If you marry a local, and are the wealthier party you will end up being expected to pay for some family things. This actually runs both ways...i have plenty of foreign friends married to rich locals who get well looked after now they married into the "family".

I dont think the flying kiwi should end up broke but he should have a discussion with his potential partners about limits on the spending before things get seriou (manage expectations).

 

[harryopal1]

I first met my Indonesian wife during a stopover in 2012. She had then been with RRI for over 20 years and I had a mixed media background of 30 years so had that in common. I was not and still am not what you might call well off. I made no pretence that I was wealthy. She had been previously married with two independent adult children and I had four also living independently. So there were no complications of trying to mix families. I once had a sister in law who sought a loan and we agreed on a method of repayment to which she adhered. There have been no other requests for assistance from other Indon family members. As a mature adult, my wife had been very independent and continues to be. I suppose some people may sit down at the very beginning and have long purposeful talks about their expectations but I suspect like many, I have tended to begin relationship like starting a journey without a road map. As with life itself, relationship journeys are a kind of adventure but treating others with respect and being disinclined to get angry over differences has helped along the way. As with life in general there are no guarantees no matter how much you try and plan.

So, Flying Kiwi, good luck with your journey.
Thre

 

[Hawk256]

I would like to add that if both sides are always testing the response from the other, you could end up with problems that would never have came up otherwise. I have seen a couple of people relationships go into toilet from constant testing. Pick your hill carefully and don't end up on it for no reason.

 

[Bad_azz]

I suppose some people may sit down at the very beginning and have long purposeful talks about their expectations but I suspect like many, I have tended to begin relationship like starting a journey without a road map. As with life itself, relationship journeys are a kind of adventure but treating others with respect and being disinclined to get angry over differences has helped along the way. As with life in general there are no guarantees no matter how much you try and plan.

What I wrote may have sounded much like this but it was more about being deeply honest with each other-
have you ever been arrested/done drugs etc. I didn't want any unpleasant surprises...
& I in turn was up front with - if you want kids- not happening with me but pets I can do/ if you want a quiet, religious little wife sitting at home cooking & cleaning for you- not happening with me.
We didn't talk about what ifs and maybes just very direct & absolute stuff- through a 3rd party- because neither of us had enough of the other's language to do better than that, pre-online translation stuff. It might not have been the most romantic kissy-kissy talk but neither of us were kids and we liked each other a lot & wanted to know if we could make a go of it without wasting time.
I absolutely agree about respecting each other & that has been a massive part of our marriage.

 

[harryopal1]

What I wrote may have sounded much like this but it was more about being deeply honest with each other-
have you ever been arrested/done drugs etc. I didn't want any unpleasant surprises...
& I in turn was up front with - if you want kids- not happening with me but pets I can do/ if you want a quiet, religious little wife sitting at home cooking & cleaning for you- not happening with me.
We didn't talk about what ifs and maybes just very direct & absolute stuff- through a 3rd party- because neither of us had enough of the other's language to do better than that, pre-online translation stuff. It might not have been the most romantic kissy-kissy talk but neither of us were kids and we liked each other a lot & wanted to know if we could make a go of it without wasting time.
I absolutely agree about respecting each other & that has been a massive part of our marriage.

My previous line, "...I suppose some people may sit down at the very beginning and have long purposeful talks about their expectations " was not in response to your post and certainly not an intended criticism; just noting that we all do things differently. Being sure there are no drugs lurking in the background or other possibly unpleasant surprises makes sense.

 

[marcus]

... What would say would be the response if strong boundaries around spending were discussed from the get go? would most woman understand? or would it be seen as cheap and insulting?

I think it is difficult to know as each person has her/his own different personality .

What I suggest :
a) If you want to have children , better have a long dating time before marrying .
b) Otherwise , better only date , if the other part agree . If not , something like Balifrog's example .

I say that because I dated my first wife during 3 years , and everything was fine (with I treating her well and helping her parents/relatives too) . But after we married , she changed . I wanted to divorce but she threatened to commit suicide .

And long time ago I did read (and agree) from an important person (forgot the name) that a regular marriage kills the romance . Better only date or if marry , live in separate houses or at least in separate rooms .

 

[Balifrog]

From your online discourse I feel like your GF knows the deal in your relationship, she has lived a life before you and knows how the world works. She is in for the ride and you both know exactly what you BOTH need in life.

I get the feeling that the flying kiwi is over here looking for a nice sweet local girl who has no life experience, is likely a virgin and will be a compliant partner. I dont think you can pick up a girl like that and get the deal Balifrog has with his GF who is clearly a very independent lady in her own right.

If you marry a local, and are the wealthier party you will end up being expected to pay for some family things. This actually runs both ways...i have plenty of foreign friends married to rich locals who get well looked after now they married into the "family".

I dont think the flying kiwi should end up broke but he should have a discussion with his potential partners about limits on the spending before things get seriou (manage expectations).

Agreed.
We met when we were both living in HKG.
A lot of nightlife and partying..
We started hanging out together (mainly for her physics..) for about 1 1/2 years and one morning after having another night together I asked her "after all, we get along pretty well, why we don't try to live together ?"
It works, OK, it doesn't work we both go back to our previous lives. She said OK, we discussed the rules, from both sides and it started from there.
Over the years we have learned to discover each other and to appreciate each other.
Is it easy ? Sure not, we were both wild and independent animals but we live with it.
Of course getting older we slowly calmed down, but I still like my drink and going out and for her when there is a party in the village she has no problem ending up dancing on stage..
And I sure don't want she changes and become a boring "good girl"....

 

[Helpful Herbert]

I also did/do , except these 3 above .
1) Birthday present or party is prohibited even to me (except to my parents when they were still alive) . I tell to my brothers/sisters/wife : party/present only when someone really deserved .
2) Visits only by bus , train , or ship (the cheapest option) , and only if there is a good reason to come .
3) I tell my wife , better give the money to people in need (and indirectly help the Indonesian economy) .

Yes, these 3 are the ones I wasn't very happy with.
But it's completely different having kids, than having a companion-type relationship like Balifrog does. They are two completely different discussions. In the latter either party can leave if they don't like something without damaging others.

 

[Shadrach]

I never understood, Why people marry? I always never wanted a piece of paper from courts to sanctify my Love for the other person. I considered it none of their business. I can see if it somehow helps in your living situation, but other than that, Why Bother? To me, it's an old fashioned tradition that was not necessary. But hey if it makes you happy, then go for it! But just look at all the poor People that wanted out of the Marriage and had to go to court, hire lawyers, fight over property, the poor kids caught in the middle, and sometimes used as a tool to hurt the other partner, etc.
Because I never married, when the (wife/ partner) wanted to leave, She had only control over what she had paid for and equal control over the kids. We both agreed, Not to put the kids in the middle of a battle. We came to a mutual agreement on when she would have the kids, and when I did.
We all have seen how sometimes in a divorce one of the Parents gets vindictive and wants more control, or All control of the kids, and the Poor kids don't understand, They love both parents, and usually want the family the stay together! Or How in a bitter divorce, the Wife gets the House, Car, Alimony, monthly child payments, and the poor father gets nothing. I think it's Totally Wrong that the Woman can still get these full payments for Alimony, even after She has a new Partner and a new life! Sure the Original Dad should still help pay for the kids, But the New Father figure should pay also!