Visiting customers on married visa

[Dandm]

I have question about my situation, i have a yearly visa sponsored from my wife, kitas.
I’m employ from a european company as consultant with regular contract and receive my salary outside Indonesia. The work service is also done to countries not include Indonesia.
But now the company i work for got a local agent in Indonesia, and i would be required to visiting customers sometimes, maybe 2-3 times a year.
Now i have got information that if customs authorities find foreigners inside factories they will assume the foreigner is working there and it will be deported. Especially in east Java.
Of course i want follow the rules and be safe, any idea on what is the real regulation about this? I would remark that I’m not receive any compensation here in Indonesia. Thanks

 

[centurion]

Work permit required.

 

[Dandm]

Work permit required.

Thanks for reply, work permit required with sponsor from the Indonesian agency? I would remark that the Indonesian agency is not associated with the European company they just buy goods from them.
This doesn’t make much sense so for a couple day meeting 3/4 times a year is needed a working visa?

 

[jstar]

This is rather complex. You say now you will only have meetings and that could be covered by a business visa but you already have an ITAS. Both can not co-exist.

And if the Indonesian entity would sponsor you for a work permit they would need a structure with you as employee and approval to hire foreign workers which is also not ideal.

An option could be to cancel the ITAS and just have a multiple entry business visa to cover most of the year. But you’d need to leave every two months.

 

[Dandm]

This is rather complex. You say now you will only have meetings and that could be covered by a business visa but you already have an ITAS. Both can not co-exist.

And if the Indonesian entity would sponsor you for a work permit they would need a structure with you as employee and approval to hire foreign workers which is also not ideal.

An option could be to cancel the ITAS and just have a multiple entry business visa to cover most of the year. But you’d need to leave every two months.

Cancel the Itas is not ideal, i think its more safe to just deny the meetings and do my job in other countries. What i dont get is that on visa on arrival made at airports, those are valid for business meetings, as its stated on them. But Itas seems not.

 

[marcus]

... sponsored from my wife, kitas ...

I am assuming here that your wife is Indonesian (because as far as I understand , a foreign with a KITAS can also sponsor her/his foreign spouse) .

... i would be required to visiting (Indonesian) customers sometimes, maybe 2-3 times a year ... any idea on what is the real regulation about this?

As you may know , Article 61 of the Indonesian Law no.6 Year 2011 states something like : "foreigners holding KITAS or KITAP sponsored by Indonesian spouses can do work and/or business to fulfill his/her family living needs ."

But until now , no Regulation specifically detailed that , making its implementation unclear .

Some foreigners had talked to their local Manpower Department + local Immigration about it with reasonable success .

If I was in your situation , I would do the same (mainly talking to the local Immigration as they are the ones who can directly deport you) .

At https://evisa.imigrasi.go.id/web/visa-selection , Immigration states :
About Visa E31A (sponsored by the Indonesian spouse)
......
5. Other Information
e. You are prohibited from working by receiving compensation, wages, or any similar from individuals or companies in Indonesia, unless reported to immigration (using the multiple activity reporting process).

So I would first ask Immigration about the possibility to do these few work visits to companies under an Indonesian spouse's small business (which would not require a work permit , according to past non official information) .

 

[jstar]

As you may know , article 61 of the Indonesian Law no.6 Year 2011 states something like : foreigners holding KITAS or KITAP sponsored by Indonesian spouses can do work and/or business to fulfill his/her family living needs .

Can we please not go there anymore? I realize you’ve not been active on this forum for so long but there are many threads and posts about that.



In this case it’s also not an argument.

So I would first ask Immigration about the possibility to do these few work visits to companies under an Indonesian spouse's small business

Since he’s officially working for a foreign company, that is completely irrelevant and rather bad advice.

Besides you’d probably talk to Manpower instead of Immigration, I would not open this can of worms at all.

 

[Dandm]

I am assuming here that your wife is Indonesian (because as far as I understand , a foreign with a KITAS can also sponsor her/his foreign spouse) .

As you may know , article 61 of the Indonesian Law no.6 Year 2011 states something like : foreigners holding KITAS or KITAP sponsored by Indonesian spouses can do work and/or business to fulfill his/her family living needs .

But until now , no Regulation specifically states about that , making its implementation unclear .

Some foreigners had talked to their local Manpower Department + local Immigration about it with reasonable success .

If I was in your situation , I would do the same (mainly talking to the local Immigration as they are the ones who can directly deport you) .

At https://evisa.imigrasi.go.id/web/visa-selection , Immigration states :
About Visa E31A (sponsored by the Indonesian spouse)
......
5. Other Information
e. You are prohibited from working by receiving compensation, wages, or any similar from individuals or companies in Indonesia, unless reported to immigration (using the multiple activity reporting process).

So I would first ask Immigration about the possibility to do these few work visits to companies under an Indonesian spouse's small business (which would not require a work permit , according to past non official information) .

Thank you for your clear reply, yes i confirm the spouse is Indonesian. So i should talk to immigration officers first and see they response, i think a big plus i could be granted this ‘works’ is that I’m not receiving any compensation from anyone here in Indonesia.

 

[Dandm]

Can we please not go there anymore? I realize you’ve not been active on this forum for so long but there are many threads and posts about that.



In this case it’s also not an argument.


Since he’s officially working for a foreign company, that is completely irrelevant and rather bad advice.

Besides you’d probably talk to Manpower instead of Immigration, I would not open this can of worms at all.

What do you mean with your post, Especially first part? Seeing discordant reply about this matter make me feel like is very unclear.

 

[jstar]

There is a high level law that states that every foreigner is allowed to provide for their family. It has been an ongoing discussion what that exactly implies for many years and until there are law suits, it will not be resolved.

In your case you already have foreign income as you work for a European company. So you are not in a position as a foreign spouse in Indonesia who wants to do a job locally to make sure there‘s bread -or rice- on the table.

 

[jstar]

i think its more safe to just deny the meetings and do my job in other countries.

That makes sense. Or do video calls and avoid visiting the company.

 

[marcus]

... What i dont get is that on visas on arrival ... are valid for business meetings, as its stated on them. But Itas seems not.

I noticed that business/work activities allowed under visit visas are very restricted to those that are clearly beneficial to Indonesia , see examples below .
Note : If your visits are similar , Immigration may allow you do them too .

From https://evisa.imigrasi.go.id/web/visa-selection :

a) VOA : May discuss, negotiate, and/or sign business agreements, conduct field visits to production sites, mines, offices, factories (site visits).

b) C19 - 60 days extendable , After Sales Service Visa , A person who provides after-sales service to clients in Indonesia for products originated abroad.
Prohibited from receiving rewards, wages, or any similar from individuals or corporations in Indonesia.
Requires a sponsor.

c) C16 - 60 days extendable , Counseling and Training Visa , to conduct counseling and training in the application and innovation of industrial technology to improve the quality and design of industrial products and foreign marketing cooperation for Indonesia.
Prohibited from receiving rewards, wages, or any similar from individuals or corporations in Indonesia.
Requires a sponsor.

 

[centurion]

Thanks for reply, work permit required with sponsor from the Indonesian agency? I would remark that the Indonesian agency is not associated with the European company they just buy goods from them.
This doesn’t make much sense so for a couple day meeting 3/4 times a year is needed a working visa?

You can have Indonesian company sponsoring you, that has any business ties with your foreign employer. This work permits can short term (up to 30 days) or long term (up to 1 year).

Depends on your employer is this feasible for them. And all locations where you have to have meetings have to be listed on this permit.

 

[Dandm]

Thank you guys for the replies , i have clear idea now. Or sponsored by indonesian company or no meetings and visits here. Most important thing is to be safe and follow rules to avoid problems.

 

[Shadrach]

Thank you guys for the replies , i have clear idea now. Or sponsored by indonesian company or no meetings and visits here. Most important thing is to be safe and follow rules to avoid problems.

As Sargent Schultz said, Achtung! Vhere are your Papers you Swine!

 

[marcus]

Can we please not go there anymore? I realize you’ve not been active on this forum for so long but there are many threads and posts about that.

There are many repeated questions & answers in this Forum , why are you bothered about ? If you know about many other related threads/posts , why don't you do something useful like commenting about them and/or show the link to them ?

Since he’s officially working for a foreign company, that is completely irrelevant and rather bad advice.

In my view , the fact that he works for a foreign company that has no Indonesian company involved is another subject that , as far as I understood , OP didn't ask about it .

And please explain why it is a bad advice , so OP can see more pros and cons .

Besides you’d probably talk to Manpower instead of Immigration, I would not open this can of worms at all.

Again , please explain your point .

 

[marcus]

There is a high level law that states that every foreigner is allowed to provide for their family. It has been an ongoing discussion what that exactly implies for many years and until there are law suits, it will not be resolved.

I did see few people say they resolved by talking to their local Immigration .

In your case you already have foreign income as you work for a European company. So you are not in a position as a foreign spouse in Indonesia who wants to do a job locally to make sure there‘s bread -or rice- on the table.

Your opinion about he not being in a position to use Article 61 of the Law in his favor , is irrelevant in my (also irrelevant) opinion .
The local Indonesian Immigration's opinion is the decisive one , in my view .

 

[marcus]

... So i should talk to immigration officers first and see they response,

I think there will be no problem by asking , in the other hand you may be benefited by a favorable response .

i think a big plus i could be granted this ‘works’ is that I’m not receiving any compensation from anyone here in Indonesia.

I would not mention that there will be no compensation , as the officer(s) may start not believing in you . And if you get a favorable opinion even not mentioning that , you will have a chance to really get compensation for other works you do in the future , in Indonesia .