Seriously though, what's up with Indonesia's infatuation with Nazis?

[Vicissidude]

This isn't anything new to me. I've seen Nazi stickers on motorbikes, heard stupid jokes that glorify Hitler and the Holocaust, scolded students for giggling and drawing swastikas, and there was even that Nazi themed hipster cafe here in Bandung.

Today I saw a dude on the motorbike next to me in traffic wearing a Nazi shirt. Gave him a long "how fucking stupid can you be" look. That'll learn em!

I get that people here are racist toward Jews. But they don't exactly fit the description of Hitler's "supreme" Aryan race. So what gives?

 

[steveandpenny]

I've seen the swastika before here in Indonesia, in fact one of the cars we hired had a patch with it on the dashboard. After getting the courage to ask Nicky about it before I went apeshit. The older guy who owns it looked at me strangely and explained it was a good look thing. He wasn't Hindu but told me it was a symbol of harmony and family. HE'S a sweet guy and I believe him.
So just maybe you are looking at it wrong (hopefully) NO offence to your understandable outrage. This is from one of the 2 Jews that live in North Sulawesi.

 

[macvert]

Good question, I sort of wondered the same & only knew that the Balinese swastia went the opposite way to the Nazi swastika but had never looked into it until now.

The site below has opened my eyes about the swastika being a Hindu symbol, of good & how the Nazi's hijacked it.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-s...mblance-to-the-Nazi-symbol-just-a-coincidence

 

[Vicissidude]

I'm aware the swastika isn't just a Nazi symbol. I've seen it in taxis as a dashboard ornament. I'm not talking about that.

I'm talking about a coffee shop where the staff dresses as Nazi soldiers, and the T-shirt today said "ein volk, ein reich, ein fuhrer" in block letters and some small text about Adolf Hitler. And I've heard people glorify Hitler like he's a world hero or some shit.

This is from one of the 2 Jews that live in North Sulawesi.

Maybe it's a good thing you live there and not here! Anyway, I'm more confused about it than I am outraged.. lol

 

[steveandpenny]

Just proves there are crazy people every where ,my friend

 

[Jaime C]

I'm sure 20 years from now they will wonder why Trump had so many supporters.

Some things only become clear when you view them in the rearview mirror.

 

[Nimbus]

A lot of Indonesians are infatuated with the idea of a strong leader, Hitler is widely seen as one. Suharto killed up to 2 million people yet some folks are still nostalgic about his era, which explains why his son in law was a front runner for president.

They're sheep.

 

[vocalneal]

At one point of my life , if I parted my hair the other way i was a dead ringer for Hitler. I dressed up as such one Halloween at a party in a bar. My friends were happy with that. Then a couple of Americans walked into the bar and I had to listen to a load of nonsense about how it was politically incorrect and an insult and, and ,and. Their tirade was interrupted by an Israeli couple who walked in, howled with laughter, bought me a drink and asked if they could take a group picture.
Go figure. I still have a brown shirt and the red armband but alas my hair is now the wrong colour!

 

[Puspawarna]

At one point of my life , if I parted my hair the other way i was a dead ringer for Hitler. I dressed up as such one Halloween at a party in a bar. My friends were happy with that. Then a couple of Americans walked into the bar and I had to listen to a load of nonsense about how it was politically incorrect and an insult and, and ,and. Their tirade was interrupted by an Israeli couple who walked in, howled with laughter, bought me a drink and asked if they could take a group picture.
Go figure. I still have a brown shirt and the red armband but alas my hair is now the wrong colour!

I wish people were more relaxed, and the Americans had no business lecturing you. But the reality of the matter in the US is that there is no "innocent" riffing on an accidental resemblance to Hitler. (Speaking of which I hope you got rid of the stache...the Hitler upper-lip 'do was pretty ugly.)

A long time ago at my son's college, two white boys created a HUGE uproar when they dressed as black pop stars (complete with blackface and exaggerated buttocks/breasts). Some students felt that expulsion would be an appropriate punishment. The whole episode is now used as a "teachable moment" at orientation for freshmen.

Personally, I think the boys were ill-advised to dress as they did, and I would be furious if my kid ever indulged in such antics. (Thank god, he's got more class than that.) At the same time, I'm appalled that students of color - several of whom never even saw the costumes, only heard about them - insisted that they no longer felt "safe" on campus (please insert the world's biggest eyeroll emoticon here). And the notion that the boys should have been expelled for what was just a very tasteless costume boggles my mind.

Anyway, my point is that like it or not, and agree or not with the sensitivities involved, only someone living under a rock could be unaware of the fact that some people are liable to freak out at a Hitler costume. Should they? I say no, they should not. But in recognition of the fact that they would, and out of consideration for feelings that are not my own and might have a shred or two* of historical support behind them, there's no way I would dress as Hitler, go in blackface, or do anything of that nature.


* In case anyone is rhetorically impaired, that's understatement.

 

[Smallworld]

This isn't anything new to me. I've seen Nazi stickers on motorbikes, heard stupid jokes that glorify Hitler and the Holocaust, scolded students for giggling and drawing swastikas, and there was even that Nazi themed hipster cafe here in Bandung.

Today I saw a dude on the motorbike next to me in traffic wearing a Nazi shirt. Gave him a long "how fucking stupid can you be" look. That'll learn em!

I get that people here are racist toward Jews. But they don't exactly fit the description of Hitler's "supreme" Aryan race. So what gives?

They know very little about holocaust, Nazis, SS, concentration camps and gettos. Their knowledge is coming from discovery channel at most which maybe inspired them in doing it as their "hobby". They affiliate themselves with supreme race but what they don't know is they would be walking on the beginning of the queue waiting to gas chambers or crematoriums. All what they have is those flags, stickers, couple printouts, some may have couple military memorables (fakes or reproductions), more "advanced" have gas masks, a paintball gun or some other toy, maybe a book mein kampf + some Adolf's pictures.

Why no one wants to be Stalin, communist, red army general, specNaz?

I have a friend who was neo-nazi, complete freak. 10 years later after having family, working in factory as plastic machine setter, paying his own rent and food he changed. Now he is making fun how stupid he was when he was teenager. His hobby now is body building this is because everyone laughed at him that he was to thin. He was neo-nazi because ... he was a skinhead...why... because he was embarrassed of his own ginger hair (everyone was making fun out of it).

 

[Minuteman]

Who gives a shit about Nazis? Couldn't care less. Just a bunch of worthless people for a worthless cause.

 

[Nimbus]

Who gives a shit about Nazis? Couldn't care less. Just a bunch of worthless people for a worthless cause.

Well, after Dylann Roof and Charlottesville and Trump's comment about some of them being "very fine people", I can't afford to ignore them.

 

[Nimbus]

Why no one wants to be Stalin, communist, red army general, specNaz?

Indonesia has a really bad history with communism. Remember the two million dead people I mentioned earlier? Most of them were communists. Even today the appearance of sympathizing with communists is not good for your health.

 

[atlantis]

Who gives a shit about Nazis? Couldn't care less. Just a bunch of worthless people for a worthless cause.

Quite a few people didn't give a shit about the Nazis in the 30's. Perhaps they should have.

 

[Vicissidude]

They affiliate themselves with supreme race but what they don't know is they would be walking on the beginning of the queue waiting to gas chambers or crematoriums.

Exactly. The ignorance astounds me. Don't they know how to use Google? Any mediocre research would reveal the above point.

 

[Vicissidude]

http://www.projetaladin.org/holocau...wers/the-nazis-the-holocaust-and-muslims.html

Here's an enlightening read on the history of Nazis and Arab Muslims. A possible explanation? Or perhaps I'm overthinking it. Not sure any of this translates to modern Indonesian Muslims.

I think my buddy's theory makes the most sense. He believes it's just a simple association thing that basically goes like this.... Israel vs Palestine. Palestinians are Muslim, so they're "our team." Jews are bad. Who killed Jews? Hitler did. Hitler is awesome. Buy a t-shirt.

 

[Davita]

Quite a few people didn't give a shit about the Nazis in the 30's. Perhaps they should have.

Atlantis makes a very good succinct point.
No-one in Germany understood the influence of the National Socialist Party of Germany in the 1930's.... most Germans just wanted a reasonable life and food.
History requires hindsight and...to ignore history, and believe social media and and instant response to news, we will ultimately achieve the same result through the same ignorance.
All citizens of the world need to be alert to how media, and otherwise, can sway opinion...just like what happened in Germany in the terrible depression of the 1930's.

 

[Smallworld]

Indonesia has a really bad history with communism. Remember the two million dead people I mentioned earlier? Most of them were communists. Even today the appearance of sympathizing with communists is not good for your health.

I feel very sorry for Indonesia to exterminate 2 mln people to get rid of communism but other ex USSR countries have shed way less blood/lives and get the same results. But the best is that some people want those "happy times" to come back. The same as neo-nazi wants their "happy time" to come back. The same as my driver wants to have Suharto times back. Because "life was easier, food and fuel was cheaper" he said.

Well if Indonesian people think that becoming a Nazi is not a bad thing because they have not experienced it from their history ... I can only say give it a try and "have fun".

 

[harryopal1]

Puspawarna said"
A long time ago at my son's college, two white boys created a HUGE uproar when they dressed as black pop stars (complete with blackface and exaggerated buttocks/breasts).

At the same time, I'm appalled that students of color - several of whom never even saw the costumes, only heard about them - insisted that they no longer felt "safe" on campus (please insert the world's biggest eyeroll emoticon here). And the notion that the boys should have been expelled for what was just a very tasteless costume boggles my mind."

Of course that seems an outrageous overreaction if you are safe in the white mainstream but minority groups are often quite insecure and it doesn't take much to create a hostile environment. When Pauline Hanson made her maiden Senate rant about Aborigines and Chinese in the Australian parliament it caused an immediate upsurge of conspicuous hostility towards Aborigines, Torres Straits Islanders and presumably Chinese. Having many Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island friends I soon became conscious of the change of tone in society.

Working in the rag trade in Flinders Lane in Melbourne many years ago I moved around with a group of young Jewish friends and was shocked at the sense of insecurity they had with a background mentality that suggested a progrom could start anywhere any time. In making jokes that touches on these sensitivities one has to bear in mind how it will go down with the relevant minority group. It is not so long ago that the US had the black and white minstrels (whites painted up as comical "Negroes" ) black roles in films and TV of the period were invariably for the comical "Negro" whose eyes rolled and he shook in fear at the mention of ghosts or spirits. And not that much further back public lynchings were a feature of the south. I don't think the reaction of "students of colour" was over the top given that cultural background.

 

[vocalneal]

Well if Indonesian people think that becoming a Nazi is not a bad thing because they have not experienced it from their history ... I can only say give it a try and "have fun".

Maybe they just like the Hugo Boss uniforms and it is nothing more sinister than that.