Indonesia in the 20 best countries around the world to live as an expat

[centurion]

In 2018 HSBC Expat Explorer Survey Indonesia is in the 20 best countries around the world to live as an expat, actually, it is on quite high 13th position, ahead of Spain, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Ireland, Vietnam and ranked no 1 in entrepreneurship, culture, and social life and 2nd in integration and making friends and closeness with a partner.

Any comments? Are we missing something?

https://www.businessinsider.sg/the-20-best-countries-for-expats-2014-10/?r=US&IR=T

https://expatexplorer.hsbc.com/country-guides/indonesia/money

 

[atlantis]

Any comments? Are we missing something?

The forum needs more of these "80% of expats (who) say they enjoy getting involved in the local culture" and of these "75% (who) say they’ve integrated well with the local people.

Personally I fully agree with the following comment:

"While Indonesia doesn’t rankly highly on economics, it does excel in one area: entrepreneurship. It ranks first in the category, with 60% of expats saying its a good place to start a business."

I should have come at 20 here. i would have retired at 30 or even before.

 

[Fred]

I dislike and don't trust polls, even when I agree with the results.
Indonesia can be cheap to live in, the people are generally friendly, and the food is great, but I have problems believing HSBC have a reasonable understanding of this country after their idiot security team insisted on me sending security information by post.
Their procedure showed a total lack of understanding of this country, and caused me a headache when the letter, predicatively, went missing.

 

[snpark]

Well I guess if you are on $250,000 a year with full package, I would also prefer to live in Indonesia not SG or HK since of course your $250k goes 100 times further than it would in SG or HK

Of course depends who they actually asked in this survey? Wifi hoggers in Bali or real workers in Jakarta SCBD stuck in the traffic? Not many of the $250,000 a year expats left in Jakarta these days anyway, most have shifted to other countries or been shifted

 

[jstar]

The forum needs more of these "80% of expats (who) say they enjoy getting involved in the local culture" and of these "75% (who) say they’ve integrated well with the local people.

The problem is though, then you end up with no more than 132 members of the forum. (80% of the 165 interrogated correspondents.)

How many foreigners (I really want to avoid the expat term with its connotation to temporary worker) live in Indonesia? Approx. 100.000?

 

[dafluff]

I think this survey is/was only for HSBC customers? If so that's quite a different demographic than just "expats".

I tried to look it up, but couldn't find it.

 

[jstar]

Hmm, at least the 165 HSBC customers are very happy.

 

[Daniel50]

Hmm, at least the 165 HSBC customers are very happy.

I think it was 80 % of the 165, if what you posted above is correct. I am with Fred on casting doubt on the validity of this survey. There is no way 80% of HSBC customers are very happy. I might believe it if it was a representative sample of the broader expat community.

 

[atlantis]

The problem is though, then you end up with no more than 132 members of the forum. (80% of the 165 interrogated correspondents.)

Why tough?
To be honest I wouldn't mind having these 132 members here. Not only it would at least quadruple the number of active users, it would perhaps also help other users to "enjoy getting involved in the local culture" and to be "integrated well with the local people". A breathe of fresh air if you want my opinion.

There was a time when our community had about 25% of its users being Indonesian. I wonder why they have almost all left.

Perhaps we should make a survey. At least just to (kindly) piss off Mas Fred and having him telling us one more time that he does not trust surveys... blablabla.

 

[El_Goretto]

The information about data and methodology is fairly limited. From their website:

A total of 27,587 expats from over 100 countries took part in an online questionnaire between March and April 2017. Of these countries, 46 featured the minimum of 100 or more responses from expats living there to qualify for a place in the league tables in this report.

How do you define an expat?
For the survey, we have defined an expatriate as someone over the age of 18 years old who is currently living away from their home country (country of origin).

Are the respondents HSBC customers?
As a specialist provider of offshore savings and wealth management for expatriates, of course we invited our customers to take part. But we also wanted a truly international snapshot of expat life. We contacted online communities and used expat social media sites to ensure as many different international expat groups were included.

We certainly haven't been contacted...

 

[Bad_azz]

The information about data and methodology is fairly limited. From their website:



We certainly haven't been contacted...

Me either, I never get asked anything about living in another country, probably because I don't tick the economic migrant boxes.
But yes, I am very happy in Indonesia, I feel to be reasonably well integrated, I doubt fully integrated is ever going to be on the cards because of my colouring - I can't hide in a crowd easily here.

& although I have been super busy with other stuff, I haven't bailed from the forum, I just haven't had much time to read stuff or been moved to post.. am still around & still alive n kicking, obviously.

 

[jstar]

it would perhaps also help other users to "enjoy getting involved in the local culture" and to be "integrated well with the local people".

But those who like to ‘stir the pot’ and who have been rather aggressive lately, might have stayed the longest in the country and probably are totally immersed in local society (read: kampung life)?! So a positive approach towards forum members and a open but still critical view of society is not necessarily related to integration. Forums have up and downs and a forum is a bit like a basket of apples...

 

[atlantis]

But those who like to ‘stir the pot’ and who have been rather aggressive lately, might have stayed the longest in the country and probably are totally immersed in local society (read: kampung life)?! So a positive approach towards forum members and a open but still critical view of society is not necessarily related to integration. Forums have up and downs and a forum is a bit like a basket of apples...

I think we don't speak about the same persons. Those I have in mind are certainly not among those who have stayed the longest in the country nor they are totally immersed in local society.

Most of the people I know who have stayed permanently over 15 years here and who are totally immersed in local society (read: speak the linguo almost as a native, conduct business here, have an Indonesian circle of friends other than family, attend local celebration...etc) would agree with the HSBC study. If not, they would have left. It's pretty hard to be immersed in society and yet rejecting most of it and those who are part of it. Sure, they all bitch from time to time about this and that, but they also remember the reasons why they live here and love it.

I have no problem with those who don't love it. In fact, I feel for them and would love to help them to enjoy a bit more their time here.

 

[dafluff]

Most of the people I know who have stayed permanently over 15 years here and who are totally immersed in local society (read: speak the linguo almost as a native, conduct business here, have an Indonesian circle of friends other than family, attend local celebration...etc) would agree with the HSBC study. If not, they would have left. It's pretty hard to be immersed in society and yet rejecting most of it and those who are part of it. Sure, they all bitch from time to time about this and that, but they also remember the reasons why they live here and love it.

I have no problem with those who don't love it. In fact, I feel for them and would love to help them to enjoy a bit more their time here.

I think these people are not expats though....more like immigrants.

I meet more or less your description, and despite being here on "Expat" Indo, I am probably much better described as an immigrant.

Expat I think implies being in Indonesia temporarily, perhaps with little to no cultural or family ties. Mostly here due to a job.

 

[Fred]

Perhaps we should make a survey. At least just to (kindly) piss off Mas Fred and having him telling us one more time that he does not trust surveys...

We already know the sample was tiny, even when you consider the low number of expats here compared to other countries, but we further know HSBC customers tend to come from better off expats rather than the impecunious proletariat such as myself.
In other words, their sample is simply too small and way too unrepresentative of expats in general, and probably only white expats from rich countries at that.
No, I don't trust polls, especially when the things are obviously flawed.

Still, I do agree Indonesia is a wonderful country so I rather like the conclusions, even if they were likely gained by flailing around in the dark and happening to get a lucky shot in.

 

[atlantis]

I think these people are not expats though....more like immigrants.

I meet more or less your description, and despite being here on "Expat" Indo, I am probably much better described as an immigrant.

Expat I think implies being in Indonesia temporarily, perhaps with little to no cultural or family ties. Mostly here due to a job.

I fully agree with your definition expat vs immigrant.
Retrospectively we perhaps should have given a name a bit less expat-ish to our website and forum. If you think about it, out of the 6 members of the original mod team, 1 was Indonesian, 4 were immigrants and only 1 was an expat (now even a former expat) as per our definition.

 

[jstar]

Also, very western oriented. Practically no members of the largest groups, as China, South Korea and Japan.

 

[Bikerbule]

White people are expats, everyone else is an immigrant.
Rich people are expats, everyone else is an immigrant.

Expat in many countries is based on race.

 

[Ruserious]

Did anyone notice the age ranges? 55% below 32? That is very very strange for an "expat" survey. Also 45% women?

I agree on the experience bit but to put the place as 10th in the family section? I raised kids here and I wouldn't call it close to 10th on the list. So many better places to raise a family.