Unnecessary Death in the Family

fastpitch17

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
2,958
Was notified of my wife's sister' daughter (niece) dying this morning. She was a single girl, 38 or 39 years old. Had some depression issues due to a failed romance but otherwise was fine and helped with the Mother's store. Her doctor prescribed some new medication for her. With each taking of a pill, she would pass out. Doctor was informed and he said she would get accustomed to them so just keep taking. This morning she took one, passed out and died.

Indonesia does not seem to have any avenues available to hold doctors responsible for their unprofessional acts. Short of calling the police, nothing can be done. Very Unfortunate.
 

Vanhelsing

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Messages
1,544
Really sorry to hear you lost a family member under such circumstances, fp. Indonesia fails its people in so many ways so often I wonder how the country's citizens tolerate the endless shortcomings of its society. However, I do think many of Indonesia's endless trials are perpetuated to some degree by the people's own apathy in these situations (not directed toward you and yours personally). I've often heard individuals lament "what can we do?" or "this is Indonesia" as if there's almost a cultural acceptance with societal failings.
 
Last edited:

Jaime C

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Messages
936
Wow, are people so afraid to only obey a doctors order? I pass out one time, and I’m not taking any more of that medication.

My condolences.
 

dafluff

Moderator
Moderator
Cager
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
3,642
Condolences to your wife's family.

There is almost no single medication or medical treatment prescribed to me that I will not google the hell out of before taking it. Especially in Indonesia.
 

Puspawarna

Moderator
Moderator
Cager
Joined
Jul 15, 2016
Messages
2,560
What a tragic story. All sympathy to your wife's family.

Do you have any idea what the medication was or what ailment she was taking it for (I can't quite tell from your post, but was it an antidepressant?)
 

Nimbus

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
1,240
My condolences.

I lost my oldest uncle to a quack doctor. The doctor had an actual medical degree, but he invented his own medication without any real research. In lieu of real medicine, my uncle took his, which (obviously) didn’t help his cancer. I don’t remember what happened to the doc, maybe his license was eventually revoked after several dozen dead patients.

My wife’s great uncle lost his life on the operating table for a supposedly minor prostate surgery. Nothing ever happened to the surgeon nor the doctor recommending the procedure.

Another uncle had headaches so severe that he lost all the will to live. The first two doctors just prescribed some pain killers and sent him home. We strongly recommended them to find a doctor willing to order a CT scan or MRI, and the third doctor relented. He had a brain hemorrhage, basically a stroke.

There’s a lot of excellent doctors in Indonesia, but the problem is we got tons of terrible ones as well. Always do your own research, then get a second, third, or fourth opinion if the diagnoses make no sense to you.
 

scouser59

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
516
The poorer countries in Africa are worse than here eg eritrea somalia etc , but they have "naff all" ,water power ,infrastructure , drugs ,equipment etc ,so its expected .
In my experience they honor the Hippocratic oath they all swear ,and do their best in an impossible situation .
Here there are many hospitals full of white coats ,but their motivation is questionable , to save the patient or their pocket ,which of course breaks the oath.
Im sure there are good doctors here ,but who they are , location and what shift they are on at time of need is a mystery ,so therefore medical care is a big sad lottery ,imho .
 

ChrisTex

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
509
Damn that sucks.



You could sue, but I wouldn't count on the legal system helping. I considered it last summer after one hospital let me leave twice with an infection after an emergency appendix surgery. Oh and the during the first visit my wife had asked if I needed a CT scan or anything like that. She was told no, but during the second visit after a meeting with several doctors, they suggested having a CT scan. Even then we had to fight and argue to get the tests. Some of the things I was told were comical. I needed to drink more water to help keep my temperature down. I was having night sweats because I was drinking too much water. The irritation I had from the IV was due to the hair spores/I was too hairy. I already had a CT scan so I don’t need another.



Luckily someone recommended a different hospital and doctor who fixed the problem. Spending about 2 months or so in a hospital and recovery is not fun.
 

fastpitch17

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
2,958
I and my wife have been dealing with this sister since our arrival concerning treatments for her daughter. Evidently, about 12 years ago her daughter discovered that he love of her life was actually a married guy who was just leading her on. The breakup was hard on her and went into depression. Family doctor seen. He prescribed medication. His idea was no one has to deal with it if he just makes her sleep most hours of the day. That is just what she did when we first met her.

I noticed with one visit where the sister was complaining of the cost of the medication she had cut the tablets in half and was only delivering half dosages to her daughter. He daughter became more attentive and was now carrying on actual conversations with us. I realized that she was being over medicated and made my concerns known. I doubted she needed medication as much as she needed social interactions. Of course, we were dealing with kampung thinking and doctors always know best. I took the names of the 2 medications she was taking then and found them to be primarily for serious mental disorders bipolar disorders. This was definitely not her.

I suggested she be taken to a doctor with mental health experience at a large hospital in Palembang where they live close to. A hospital known for their work with mental disorders. We were told that wasn't necessary because their doctor has been their doctor for many years and he knows what he is doing. Trying to explain that a GP was not what she needed and a mental health professional was fell on deft ears. Over the past 5 years her doctor changed medications numerous times and it was very evident she was getting worse, not better. Her doctor and immediate family were looking for a cure and never realizing or accepting that it wasn't a cure but control they needed.

In the past year and half she became totally isolated from everything besides her mother. When we visited she would not even leave her room to greet us where before she was waiting at the door for us. We pleaded with the mother to get her better help. She just thought that things are what they are. We actually heard the mother threaten suicide so she could stop dealing with her daughter.

Now this GP old doctor took her life with his latest idea of treatment. I have a request in to legal family member asking if there is recourse. I will be requesting the name of the medication when things settle down in my sister in laws house so I can research it. I figure we can direct the sister to do something but knowing here, what happens. happens.

I'll see what comes down the road.
 

William King

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
1,511
Sorry to hear that. If you follow legal acton, be sure of what outcome you are trying to achieve.
 

fastpitch17

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
2,958
Sorry to hear that. If you follow legal acton, be sure of what outcome you are trying to achieve.
There seems to be no legal action here against doctors. You can submit a police report and the doctor after the investigation may be arrested. In past occasions, an arrested doctor's colleagues would then strike and the whole case dropped.
 

atlantis

Administrator
Moderator
Cager
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
2,510
There seems to be no legal action here against doctors. You can submit a police report and the doctor after the investigation may be arrested. In past occasions, an arrested doctor's colleagues would then strike and the whole case dropped.
There is a more dangerous issue to consider. If you submit a police report, that it goes to court and that you fail to prove the wrongdoing of said doctor and that he got acquitted, you expose yourself to be charged for defamation (cf ITE law and KUHP). Acquittal being the highest kind of proof in matter of defamation, it makes no doubt that you would be convicted.
In Indonesia suing someone is something to carefully thought about, especially someone wth money and knowledge of the law.
 

harryopal

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Messages
890
No matter how flawed police forces and medical services may be there is a tacit acceptance by courts in most countries that societies are dependent upon these instruments and it takes overwhelming evidence before courts will find against members of these services. Usually police and medical practitioners will close ranks when challenged. As exasperating as it may be that you clearly see the shortcomings of procedures in the case of your wife's niece, trying the legal path seems likely to give you more grief and with that, as Atlantis has made clear, the inherent dangers in a possible prosecution for defamation. Difficult for you to come to terms with all that is involved here. I am sure most forum members will sympathize
 

fastpitch17

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
2,958
There is a more dangerous issue to consider. If you submit a police report, that it goes to court and that you fail to prove the wrongdoing of said doctor and that he got acquitted, you expose yourself to be charged for defamation (cf ITE law and KUHP). Acquittal being the highest kind of proof in matter of defamation, it makes no doubt that you would be convicted.
In Indonesia suing someone is something to carefully thought about, especially someone wth money and knowledge of the law.
No one in our family is planning any legal recourse. They know the odds of that ever succeeding and along with those that know the outcome, there are still those that also think that hey, it's a doctor and they can do no wrong.

I did get my hands of the prescription the doctor wrote out for her. Basically it had her remain on her previous meds but added a couple new one to it.

1. Olanzapine: Anti psychotic. Treats schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder, and manic depression. Should not be mixed with #4
2. Haloperidol: Anti psychotic. Treats schizophrenia. Over medication can bring death. Should not be mixed with #4
3.Hexymer: Treats Parkinson Disease. To offset side effects of #4. Only in Indonesia
4. Rispenidone: Anti Psychotic. Treats schizophrenia and bi-polar disorder. Can cause seizures. Never take with tea or cola. Should not be mixed wit 1 or 2. No warnings or instructions given.
5. Clonle: Anti Convulsant. Treats Anxiety and Epilepsy. Latest added by doctor.

I nor anyone else has ever seen anything related to schizophrenia or bi-polar disorder. More like just depression at the early stages. Everything I read that with any anti psychotic, it is recommended it should not be mixed with another. Sometimes 2 are required. Never 3 at once. The fact that medications were being prescribed that contradict each other tells me the doctor has no business being a doctor. Of course, those things don't matter here. Just more evidence as to why I look up any medications before accepting the treatment. The last medication he gave, No 5 probably should not have been added until brought off the others gradually. One would never know if another works if the patient is just being knocked out for the majority of the day. She was never awake long enough to see how she was reacting to anything. That went on for years. If she went into this with a mild mental disorder, her treatments led her to something more full blown. Then killed her and not a thing anyone can do about it except let this doctor go on to possibly kill some more.
 

Puspawarna

Moderator
Moderator
Cager
Joined
Jul 15, 2016
Messages
2,560
That's heartbreaking.

Naive question - is there any chance you could talk to the doctor and ask some "innocent" questions? It wouldn't do your family any good, but maybe under the guise of wanting to know more you could subtly try to educate the doctor?

(Yeah, probably a dumb idea.)
 

colroe

Active Member
Charter Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2016
Messages
85
That's heartbreaking.

Naive question - is there any chance you could talk to the doctor and ask some "innocent" questions? It wouldn't do your family any good, but maybe under the guise of wanting to know more you could subtly try to educate the doctor?

(Yeah, probably a dumb idea.)
I think educating the doctor may be a tad late. So many Indonesian doctors are below even a mediocre level. Yes, there are some decent ones who have trained or complemented their Indonesian training overseas. I can recall many instances of malpractice or bad medicine in my years here. Generally the really bad doctors service the lower socio-economic sector. After a simple consult the patient will end up with a bag full of tablets, capsules, bottles etc, most of which will be left in the cupboard when the patient recuperates in a day or two. A common example is issuing vitamins which normally take weeks to have any effect, but are dispensed for all immediate illness!
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Follow Us

Latest Expat Indo Articles

Latest Activity

New posts Latest threads

Latest Tweets by Expat Indo

Online Now

Newest Members

Forum Statistics

Threads
4,539
Messages
68,996
Members
1,918
Latest member
labelslabeling
Top Bottom