The Texas thread

ChrisTex

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
678
Moderation note: This thread has been split off from another thread as this discussion has become tangential to the original post.

The original post is here: https://www.expatindo.org/community/threads/introduction-and-first-post.5944


76bogxqtumd41.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

waarmstrong

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
2,440
Texas would certainly be improved if it could find a way to annex Oklahoma.

Texas is currently suffering through an unseasonal cold snap that has robbed the Texans of electricity. The resulting lack of heat has lead to countless burst water pipes flooding multiple homes. Its so bad Ted Crus left for Mexico. Now he knows what its like to be an immigrant forced to abandon your own country due to adversity.

In keeping with the point of this thread, I cope by making light of the problems of others.
 

Nimbus

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
1,483
And the first thing Texas Republican government blames is renewable energy, even though just one third of the lost capacity comes from renewable sources.
 
Last edited:

ChrisTex

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
678
Texas would certainly be improved if it could find a way to annex Oklahoma.

Texas is currently suffering through an unseasonal cold snap that has robbed the Texans of electricity. The resulting lack of heat has lead to countless burst water pipes flooding multiple homes. Its so bad Ted Crus left for Mexico. Now he knows what its like to be an immigrant forced to abandon your own country due to adversity.

In keeping with the point of this thread, I cope by making light of the problems of others.

A good chunk of Oklahoma was part of Texas when we were a republic and before we were asked to join the union.

Julius-Lira-Salazar-Map-of-Republic-of-Texas-1836-40x30-Oil-on-Canvas-Dallas-Art-Gallery-compr.jpg
 

harryopal

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Messages
1,030
Good old Texas. Conservatives argue private enterprise is best including ownership of utility companies such as electricity. (In Australia whenever a state owned service has been privatized it usually results in poorer service and higher prices.)

It seems in Texas with private enterprise there are scores of electricity service providers and many operating on a supply and demand principal. So higher demand... higher prices. With the recent 5 day freeze with most people without heating or electricity those who were "lucky" enough to be still connected for electricity got bills for $5000 for the five day period. Wow. Can't beat private enterprise. None of this communistic services owned by the people and the state nonsense.
 

Hawk256

Member
Joined
May 9, 2020
Messages
46
It seems in Texas with private enterprise there are scores of electricity service providers and many operating on a supply and demand principal. So higher demand... higher prices. With the recent 5 day freeze with most people without heating or electricity those who were "lucky" enough to be still connected for electricity got bills for $5000 for the five day period. Wow. Can't beat private enterprise. None of this communistic services owned by the people and the state nonsense.
It should be noted that the companies or individuals that received the high bills were customers of wholesale rates and know that their rates are based on demand. Customers with standard fixed retail rates were not effected. It doesn't make the situation any better but at least they knew what they were getting into when they made their initial decision. Save more when demands are low and pay more when the demands are high. Customers of wholesale rates were even warned of rising rates and suggested to switch providers by their current providers.
 

HappyMan

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
464
It should be noted that the companies or individuals that received the high bills were customers of wholesale rates and know that their rates are based on demand. Customers with standard fixed retail rates were not effected. It doesn't make the situation any better but at least they knew what they were getting into when they made their initial decision. Save more when demands are low and pay more when the demands are high. Customers of wholesale rates were even warned of rising rates and suggested to switch providers by their current providers.
One of the government's chief responsibilities is protecting the needy and short sighted from the well opportuned and greedy. It's not hard to put a cap on prices. We are talking about access to necessary utilities here, not someone accidentally purchasing a CD club subscription. Putting the blame on the customer is just crap.
 

Hawk256

Member
Joined
May 9, 2020
Messages
46
One of the government's chief responsibilities is protecting the needy and short sighted from the well opportuned and greedy. It's not hard to put a cap on prices. We are talking about access to necessary utilities here, not someone accidentally purchasing a CD club subscription. Putting the blame on the customer is just crap.
All I'm saying is that the customer had choice. In your opinion, that choice should be taken away. Let the government hold everyone's hand because they aren't capable of making their own decision. And BTW there is and was cap on prices. These prices are at or below that cap.
 
Last edited:

Bad_azz

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Messages
3,135
One of the government's chief responsibilities is protecting the needy and short sighted from the well opportuned and greedy. It's not hard to put a cap on prices. We are talking about access to necessary utilities here, not someone accidentally purchasing a CD club subscription. Putting the blame on the customer is just crap.
For a moment there I was unsure which country you were referring to :)
 

HappyMan

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
464
For a moment there I was unsure which country you were referring to :)
Somewhere in north-west Europe, perhaps? It's been ages since my christian-school education, but I'm sure that was in a book somewhere. Must not have been in the American History, since that was mostly about how America was founded by religious men to further the work of God. That and how some slave-owners were okay guys and the civil War was really about States Rights...
 

gemima

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 25, 2016
Messages
263
All I'm saying is that the customer had choice. In your opinion, that choice should be taken away. Let the government hold everyone's hand because they aren't capable of making their own decision. And BTW there is and was cap on prices. These prices are at or below that cap.
This is all great when people have the time/ education level/ lack of dementia to make these decisions. One of the most heartbreaking stories about the big bills is a retired veteran with a 16000 bill he's had to wipe out his life savings to pay. Did he really know what he signed up for? Surely if he did he would have turned off his power (and take the chance he freezes to death) to stop the huge bill. I don't think anyone had any idea their utilities could increase THAT much in the surge.
 

HappyMan

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
464
All I'm saying is that the customer had choice. In your opinion, that choice should be taken away. Let the government hold everyone's hand because they aren't capable of making their own decision. And BTW there is and was cap on prices. These prices are at or below that cap.
Yeah, I don't think people need the "choice" to financially ruin themselves through failure to grasp the finer details of their agreement with a utility company. I also don't think anyone was expecting their "choice" to be between exploitative prices and freezing to death.

The fact is that the cost of producing power did not suddenly multiply, but the price of purchasing that power did. Someone in the supply chain just enriched themselves off the backs of their customers, because their collective endeavor in the Texas power grid failed. The correct thing to do is clearly to reduce the bills to be closer aligned with the cost of production.

What, you think the customers are ruefully grinning and saying, "eh, they got me, the clever bastards... but at least I got to choose"?

You do realize that caps can be lowered?
 

dafluff

Moderator
Moderator
Cager
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
3,945
Yeah, I don't think people need the "choice" to financially ruin themselves through failure to grasp the finer details of their agreement with a utility company. I also don't think anyone was expecting their "choice" to be between exploitative prices and freezing to death.

Exactly. Invariably, when a conservative advocates for "free choice", the unspoken agenda is that they know many people will make poor choices which they will exploit. However, if they make a poor choice (oh say, for example, make a sub-standard power grid, separate from the rest of the country for the specific purpose of ignoring federal guidelines), then they all insist on getting a handout (federal emergency funds). It's such a hypocritical and morally bankrupt ideology.
 

Hawk256

Member
Joined
May 9, 2020
Messages
46
Yeah, I don't think people need the "choice" to financially ruin themselves through failure to grasp the finer details of their agreement with a utility company. I also don't think anyone was expecting their "choice" to be between exploitative prices and freezing to death.

The fact is that the cost of producing power did not suddenly multiply, but the price of purchasing that power did. Someone in the supply chain just enriched themselves off the backs of their customers, because their collective endeavor in the Texas power grid failed. The correct thing to do is clearly to reduce the bills to be closer aligned with the cost of production.

What, you think the customers are ruefully grinning and saying, "eh, they got me, the clever bastards... but at least I got to choose"?

You do realize that caps can be lowered?
You said there should be caps and I replied that there were. Of course they can be lowered but it was noted in the contract what the prices were. Nobody was calling this choice evil when they were paying below retail for their power because of their contract. It only becomes evil when the contract that they signed doesn't go in their favor. The only thing I am advocating for is free choice.
 

Hawk256

Member
Joined
May 9, 2020
Messages
46
Exactly. Invariably, when a conservative advocates for "free choice", the unspoken agenda is that they know many people will make poor choices which they will exploit. However, if they make a poor choice (oh say, for example, make a sub-standard power grid, separate from the rest of the country for the specific purpose of ignoring federal guidelines), then they all insist on getting a handout (federal emergency funds). It's such a hypocritical and morally bankrupt ideology.
That's not my agenda at all. Not everyone like choices and I have no problem with that. If you prefer that the government controls everything you can purchase, when you can purchase it and how much you pay then good news, there are plenty of governments that are like that and you even have the choice to go live there. If you think choice is a hypocritical and morally bankrupt ideology that is your opinion and I'm not trying to change your mind.
 

Nimbus

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
1,483
But what is freedom without having the option to freeze to death or fall into bankruptcy? Many Americans continue to make a choice between healthcare and financial ruin every day. It’s a free country.

Then imagine a country where millions don’t see my statement as sarcasm.

“Only the strong will survive and the weak will parish [sic].”

 

ChrisTex

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
678
Okay, this article will explain the power situation in Texas better than I can. Yes it is taking a dig at a sports owner(one reason why I hate the Cowboys), but it gives a rough idea on the Texas power grid.

 

Nimbus

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
1,483
Price gouging after a disaster has been declared by the governor or the president is illegal in Texas. Whether Paxton is going to prosecute Jones is an entirely different matter.

 

HappyMan

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
464
You said there should be caps and I replied that there were. Of course they can be lowered but it was noted in the contract what the prices were. Nobody was calling this choice evil when they were paying below retail for their power because of their contract. It only becomes evil when the contract that they signed doesn't go in their favor. The only thing I am advocating for is free choice.
On one side of this story we have a company of professionals united in the purpose of making a profitable business. On the other side, we have an average Joe who just rented a house and needs to get his electricity hooked up. For me, it is obvious that one of these groups is making a much more deliberate and informed choice about the energy supply contract than is the other. This is not some sort of idealized equal negotiation with parity of information and expertise.

Joe's life isn't about understanding his electricity bill. He just chose the plan with the cheapest prices. Hell, he even chose the one that lets him save money by confining his energy use to off-peak hours. He probably expected the other party to act in good faith, more's the pity.

This whole thing was unpredictable, but it is clear that the energy suppliers are taking advantage of the situation. For me, it is the same as if I sent you a quotation for goods and you just copy-pasted the price into your payment app. You made the payment, received the goods, but later we both discover there was an extra zero in the price. Did we agree to the price? Yes. Am I an opportunist asshole if I don't give you back your money? Yes. Wouldn't it be great if you had some way to prevent such bad behavior?

I don't get why people like to pretend that your average consumer has the time and energy to be perfectly informed on every decision they make. They clearly don't. The energy company has a whole team devoted to making a contract that is as profitable for them as possible and avoiding ruinous mistakes. What I suggest is that the government act as the advisor for consumers, also preventing them from making ruinous mistakes. Like Dafluff said, the only reason to advocate for poor choices for consumers is because you believe you will profit from them.

I have always thought there was a noticable amount of arrogance to "let the weak fend for themselves" arguments. Arrogance mixed with callousness and greed.
 

Follow Us

Latest Expat Indo Articles

Latest Activity

New posts Latest threads

Latest Tweets by Expat Indo

Online Now

Newest Members

Forum Statistics

Threads
4,734
Messages
72,359
Members
2,085
Latest member
farid8
Top Bottom