The Second Home Visa Impact on Ex-WNIs Thread

[SamR]

Lots of buzz about the Second Home Visa in the Visas sub-forum given that the regulation outlining the policy has been issued. I was just thought that I can create this thread here so that issues more relevant to Exes might be discussed.

A few initial reactions from me:

-I can’t seem to find the actual Surat Edaran Dirjen Imigrasi that outlines the policy. I might’ve missed it in the big thread in the Visas sub-forum. Has anyone managed to get access to it?

-I am interested in this wording which can be found on the official press release on the Immigration website:

Subjek dari second home visa yaitu Orang Asing tertentu atau ex-WNI yang hendak tinggal dan berkontribusi positif terhadap perekonomian Indonesia. Dengan visa ini, Orang Asing dapat tinggal selama 5 (lima) atau 10 (sepuluh) tahun dan melakukan berbagai macam kegiatan, seperti investasi dan kegiatan lainnya.

from: https://www.imigrasi.go.id/id/2022/...rasi-resmi-luncurkan-aturan-second-home-visa/

Given that we’ve had a discussion about Exes having more “economic rights”, this does sound enticing. But could it be just another case of the Immigration saying something that sounds too good to true?

-I am wary that this policy is issued by the Dirjen Imigrasi rather than by the Minister of Law or the President. I know enough about Indonesian bureaucracy whatever the Dirjen Imigrasi issues, it won’t have as much power than if it was issued by the Minister, the President, or a Law passed by the DPR.

Just worried that it might be too easy for the policy to be arbitrarily amended/revoked

-Any exes considering this option? Or is it still too early to tell?

 

[snpark]

It's posted 2 times in that thread as a PDF file

 

[snpark]

Here

 

[snpark]

 

[Dave70]

I see there is a column for Companion, does that mean 2 billion rupiah includes your wife and children? How about if you have 5 kids (Companion space only for 3)? So 1 person, or 1 family, the same amount?

 

[R Cameron]

Just worried that it might be too easy for the policy to be arbitrarily amended/revoked

That is a valid concern. The establishment of a Rumah Kedua visa is found in a Peraturan, but this newly released implementation is in a lowly Surat Edaran. Surat Edaran is what is used for Covid regulations which change every couple months. Surat Edaran is what is used to temporarily restrict activities around the G20 meetings. Surat Edaran appear to be rather temporary in my observation.

 

[R Cameron]

I see there is a column for Companion, does that mean 2 billion rupiah includes your wife and children? How about if you have 5 kids (Companion space only for 3)? So 1 person, or 1 family, the same amount?

Imigrasi has clarified on their social media that "pengikut tidak perlu jaminan rp 2 milyar"

 

[snpark]

How many people are retiring? Can you then sponsor your kids? I guess companion is your spouse?

 

[Helpful Herbert]

A Surat Edaran with clarifications provided by Twitter.

What could go wrong...

 

[jukung11]

Many ex-WNI forfeited their citizenship to take citizenship of a more developed country. From my reading of demographic trends of international Indonesian voting and the Indonesian diaspora community, one of the largest is in the United States. Many immigrated in the late 1990s and early 2000s as Chinese-Christian Asylum seekers. I know of a handful that are Chinese-Indonesians that gained various Chinese citizenships (Hong Kong, China, or Taiwan) for economic gains as China devoloped. Most Asian and Middle Eastern countries don't have a path to citizenship for Indonesian workers and most of the Dutch-Indonesians listed as part of the diaspora are second or third generation. If anyone has better demographic numbers for Ex-WNI, I would be happy to read about it.

Ex-wni could always get an ITAS/ITAP for Indonesia. They might get the runaround asking for bribes, but it gets done. The only major change that I noticed about this regulation was largely about property ownership.

Many ex-wni love their money going further than in a developed country and they still have family in Indonesia that they want to build wealth for. Because of the country’s history with inflation, property ownership and gold investment are very culturally Indonesian. A problem for ex-WNI buying property in Indonesia is they have to trust family to keep the property in the family member’s name. I know Indonesians are very trusting of their families, but everyone likes control over a major investment such as property. This visa allows the ex-wni to purchase the property directly in his/her name. The ex-wni doesn't have to be physically in Indonesia to maintain ownership (no residency requirement for this visa). ITAP holders can purchase freehold ownership for some apartments (Hak Milik Atas Satuan Rumah Susun, HMSRS). They can get more easily get a mortgage for a Hak Milik title. Even if it was a hak pakai title, it is good for the expected life of the Indonesian buying it. If the ex-wni regains citizenship or sells or transfers the property to an Indonesian citizen, the title can be converted from hak pakai to hak milik.

-Any exes considering this option? Or is it still too early to tell?

I know a handful that have expressed interest over the years in something similar. Most don't know about this program yet. They are also distrustful of the Indonesian government because the changes can be arbitrary. They also think that if anyone finds out they are ex-wni, they are going to get shaken down for more bribes or charged more because they are now foreigners from developed countries and have more money. I am not sure this is enough for them not to put it in a family member's name.

This has always been a struggle for Indonesia when trying to attract foreign investment. For anyone to invest, the investor must trust in the consistency and rule of the rule of law. Higher risk requires a higher expected return which results in higher interest rates and a weaker currency.

 

[centurion]

Ex-WNIs already have Visa/KITAS(P), 318 (for ex-Indonesians). No bribery is involved as the process is straightforward, and no insane funds to deposit.
It allows them to work (with a work permit), run a business (read-own and operate a PMA), and own types of property as any other foreigner.
They also can attach dependants (spouse and minor kids) to their KITAP.

 

[Teabag]

Ex-WNIs already have Visa/KITAS(P), 318 (for ex-Indonesians). No bribery is involved as the process is straightforward, and no insane funds to deposit.

I can tell you in March 2023 if this visa is still available or if it has been replaced by the new second home visa as we will 'pulang' then. (wife is ex-wni)

**
Subjek dari second home visa yaitu Orang Asing tertentu atau ex-WNI yang hendak tinggal dan berkontribusi positif terhadap perekonomian Indonesia.
****

We'll see how it goes then.....

 

[centurion]

The revised (by Omnibus Law) article 54 of the Law on Immigration has the ex-citizen's ITAP in definition:

Pasal 54
IzinTinggal Tetap dapat diberikan kepada:
(2)
a. Orang Asing pemegang Izin Tinggal terbatas
sebagai rohaniwan, pekerja, investor, dan
rumah kedua;
b. keluarga karena perkawinan campuran;
c. suami, istri, dan/atau anak dari Orang Asing
pemeganglzin Tinggal Tetap; dan
d. Orang Asing eks warga negara Indonesia dan
eks subjek anak berkewarganegaraan ganda
Republik Indonesia.

 

[jukung11]

Ex-WNIs already have Visa/KITAS(P), 318 (for ex-Indonesians). No bribery is involved as the process is straightforward, and no insane funds to deposit.

I have personally met at least two ex-wni's that wasn't the case, and heard through word of mouth of many more. One I know of is still going through it. Half of a dozen visits to imigrasi, every time saying the paperwork wasn't filled out right, it is submitted to the wrong person, and denials. Hints and comments from workers along the lines of asking for more money because the person lived and worked abroad and how much more money the person probably has. It has been going on for months.

I am happy if the process was smooth for you or anyone you know that has repatriated. I hate to imply that there may be racial undertones, but all of the people that I knew that had these issues were Chinese-Indonesian and some had expatriated to Chinese territories.

 

[pantaiema]

Keep in mind there are a lot of money getting involved in The Second Home Visa that will be deposited in the Indonesian Bank for 5-10 years e.g IDR2b per applicant. In the future, the people in power might collude and treating that as the gift they inherited from their ancestors, their "engkong". Just look at the history in the past with Jamsostek Tower, BAPINDO, Bank Century Bank, Bali Bank, Jiwasraya, Asabri

Just the opposite how much money can be collected from the existing Ex-WNIs resettlement program ?
So where could they possibly head up ? This program will be scrapped and be replaced with this second Home Visa. Ex-WNIs will need to either prepare IDR2b to be locked for for 5-10 years or pack their back and leave.

 

[centurion]

I have personally met at least two ex-wni's that wasn't the case, and heard through word of mouth of many more. One I know of is still going through it. Half of a dozen visits to imigrasi, every time saying the paperwork wasn't filled out right, it is submitted to the wrong person, and denials. Hints and comments from workers along the lines of asking for more money because the person lived and worked abroad and how much more money the person probably has. It has been going on for months.

I am happy if the process was smooth for you or anyone you know that has repatriated. I hate to imply that there may be racial undertones, but all of the people that I knew that had these issues were Chinese-Indonesian and some had expatriated to Chinese territories.

I know several of them and none of them had any problems, including one Chinese-Indonesian origin. Applicants get a C318 visa first, and one week upon entry the KITAS should be out.

 

[centurion]

Keep in mind there are a lot of money getting involved in The Second Home Visa that will be deposited in the Indonesian Bank for 5-10 years e.gIDR2b per applicants. In the future, the people in power might collude and treating that as the gift they inherited from their ancestors, their "engkong". Just look at the past what happen with Jamsostek Tower, BAPINDO, Bank Century Bank, Bali Bank, Jiwasraya, Asabri

On the opposite how much money can be collected with the existing Ex-WNIs resettlement program ?
So where they could possibly head up. This program will be scraped and replace with this econd Home Visa. Ex-WNIs will need to either prepare IDR2b to be locked for for 5-10 years or pack their back and leave.

Ex-WNI have a stay permit defined by the Law on Immigration, including the amendments, while the retirees have their stay permits deleted by the new amendments of the Law on Immigration-their category simply does not exist anymore.

 

[Balifrog]

Ex-WNI have a stay permit defined by the Law on Immigration, including the amendments, while the retirees have their stay permits deleted by the new amendments of the Law on Immigration-their category simply does not exist anymore.

You seem to enjoy the retirees problem, don't you ?

 

[centurion]

You seem to enjoy the retirees problem, don't you ?

@pantaiema implies that the ex-WNI program would be canceled in the same manner as the retirement program. This is the argument for why it should not happen.

 

[Teabag]

You will get first hand updates next march. Or even January, when we start the visa process.