Termination of dual citizenship status.

Minuteman

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There is plenty of information on cetting dual citizenship for children of Indonesian/foreign marriages. But no information on the process of terminating Indonesian citizenship when the person turns 18.

Any info on this?
 

Helpful Herbert

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I think it expires automatically unless you choose to be Indonesian.

However there should be more information on how to choose to be Indonesian and terminate the foreign one. For example, if you just go to imigrasi and say you choose to be Indonesian do they accept that, or do you need to formally renounce your other citizenship (which in some countries can cost thousands of dollars to do).
 

Jaime C

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I always thought the dual national had until 21 years of age to select the citizenship.
 

Minuteman

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I always thought the dual national had until 21 years of age to select the citizenship.
That is the case. Anytime from 18 till 21. So, the young man wants to decide now at age 18.
 

Saudade

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We have a child 14 years old as well, I wonder as well the pros and cons. It would be nice if people share here please, in this post their experiences, or what they choose and why, or what their children choose and why.
 

jukung11

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Law No. 12, 2006 Article 6:

(2). The decision to choose one of the citizenships as stipulated in Paragraph (1) shall be made in writing and forwarded to Officials and attach documents as determined by regulations.

(3). The decision to choose one citizenship as mentioned in Paragraph (2) shall be made within 3 (three) years after the child has reached the age of 18 (eighteen) or the child has married

Law No. 2, 2007: Chapter V Procedures for Obtaining, Loosing, Nullifying and Regaining Citizenship Of The Republic Of Indonesia Conveying Statement of Intention to Continue to Becoming Indonesian Citizens

Article 60

(1)The children having double citizenship as meant in Article 59 paragraph (1), in not later than 3 (three) years after turning 18 (eighteen) or marrying, shall choose any of their citizenship.

(2)In the case of the children as meant in 'paragraph (1) choosing citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia, statement shall be conveyed to officials or representatives of the Republic of Indonesia whose working area covers domicile of the children.

(3)The statement as meant in paragraph (1) shall be submitted in writing in the Indonesian language on

a sufficiently duty-stamped paper and minimally containing:
a. full name of the children conveying statement;
b. place and date of birth;
c. sex;
d. address of domicile;
e. full name of parent;
f. marriage status of parent
g. citizenship of parent.

(4) The application as meant in paragraph (2) shall be accompanied by:

a. copy of text of birth certificate of the person submitting statement, legalized by officials or representatives of the Republic of Indonesia;

b. copy of marriage certificate/book of parent, legalized by officials or representatives of the Republic
of Indonesia;

c. copy of text of marriage certificate/book of children not yet turning 18 (eighteen) but already
marrying, legalized by officials or representatives of the Republic of Indonesia;

d. copy of passport of the Republic of Indonesia and/ or foreign passport, legalized by officials or representatives of the Republic of Indonesia;

e. statement of relinquishment of foreign citizenship from children submitting statement on a sufficiently duty stamped paper, which is approved by authorized officials of foreign countries or representative offices of foreign countries;

f. latest color photo of applicants sizing 4 x 6 cm as many as 6 (six) sheets.

Article 61

(1)Officials or representatives of the Republic of Indonesia shall examine completeness of the statement to choose citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia as meant in Article 60 paragraph (4) in not later than 14 (fourteen) days as from the date of receipt of the statement.

(2)In the case of the statement as meant in paragraph (1) being not complete yet, officials of representatives of the Republic of Indonesia shall return the application to applicants in not later than 14 (fourteen) days as from the date of receipt of statement for perfecting.

(3)In the case of the statement being already complete, officials or representatives of the Republic of Indonesia shall convey the application as meant in paragraph (1) to the Minister in not later than 14 (fourteen) days as from the date of receipt of the statement.

Article 62

(1)The Minister shall examine completeness of the statement as meant in Article 61 paragraph (3) in not later than 14 (fourteen) days as from the date of receipt of statement from officials or representatives of the Republic of Indonesia whose working area cover domiciles of applicants.

(2)In the case of the statement being not complete yet, the Minister shall return the statement to officials or representatives of the Republic of Indonesia in not later than 14 (fourteen) days as from the date of receipt of statement for perfecting.

(3)In the case of the statement being already complete, the Minister shall stipulate a decision that the children are Indonesian citizens.

Article 63

(1)The decision of the Minister as meant in Article 62 paragraph (3) shall be conveyed to officials or representatives of the Republic of Indonesia in not later than 14 (fourteen) days as from the date of stipulation and copy shall be conveyed to the President, officials or representatives of the Republic of Indonesia.

(2)The officials or representatives of the Republic of Indonesia shall notify the decision as meant in paragraph (1) to the children submitting statement to choose citizenship in not later than 7 (seven) days as from the date of receipt of the decision.

Article 64

(1)The notification as meant in Article 63 paragraph (2) shall also contain an obligation of the children to give up to officials or representatives of the Republic of Indonesia receipt form of returning of immigration documents or letters of foreign countries in not later than 14 (fourteen) days as from the date of receipt of notification by the children conveying statement to choose.

(2)The decision as meant in Article 63 paragraph (1) shall be conveyed by officials or representatives of the Republic of Indonesia to children conveying statement to choose after the children give up immigration documents or letters of foreign countries to officials or representatives of the Republic of Indonesia.

(3)Officials or representatives of the Republic of Indonesia shall report to the Minister the delivery of the decision of the Minister as meant in paragraph (1) in not later than 14 (fourteen) days as from the date of delivery of the decision of the Minister to the children conveying statement to choose.

Article 65

(1)In the case of the children as meant in Article 60 paragraph (1) choosing foreign citizenship or not choosing any of the citizenship, the provisions of legislation on foreigner shall apply.

(2)The children as meant in paragraph (1) shall return decision, document and other letters proving identity of the children as Indonesian citizens in not later than 14 (fourteen) days as from the deadline of choosing stipulated by the law ends.
 
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jukung11

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We have a child 14 years old as well, I wonder as well the pros and cons. It would be nice if people share here please, in this post their experiences, or what they choose and why, or what their children choose and why.
I did not have to make the decision, but I know a few people that did. Most I have talked to are choosing foreign citizenship. Most of the children are from dual developed country/ Indonesian citizenship marriages. Because it is when the children are college aged, most are already taking advantage of their foreign citizenship to study abroad.

Since former dual citizens can be granted an ITAP, they can always come back and legally stay in Indonesia. For property and business registration purposes, they usually just put it in the Indonesian parent's name. If they spend enough time in Indonesia, they can easily regain citizenship. My understanding of No. 12, tahun 2006:
Article 9 b. At the time of forwarding the application, the applicant has resided in Indonesian territory for at least 5 (five) consecutive years or at least 10 (ten) years intermittently
If the child was raised in Indonesia, that time counts as "at least 10 (ten) years intermittently" and they can reapply, even if coming back after studying and starting a career abroad.

A downside might be if a fresh graduate wants to come and work at one of the hot unicorn startups in Indonesia, but apparently those are Singaporean anyway. :p
 

Minuteman

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Jukung,

Thanks for that information. Our Agent told us of the rukes but when he took all the relevant docs to Immigration, he was told that it would all have to be submitted to and handled by the Indonesian Embassy in the USA. We are having it reconfirmed by the main office in Jakarta and it seems that that is the case.
 
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Helpful Herbert

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So if a child chooses the foreign passport, goes abroad to university, then comes back to Indonesia, their country of birth, and wants to get a job, how do they get a work permit/ITAP etc.? Let's say they want to be a doctor (or other job on the restricted list)?
 

Minuteman

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So if a child chooses the foreign passport, goes abroad to university, then comes back to Indonesia, their country of birth, and wants to get a job, how do they get a work permit/ITAP etc.? Let's say they want to be a doctor (or other job on the restricted list)?
Who knows? Our Son will not be returning except for annual leave visits here.
 

jukung11

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So if a child chooses the foreign passport, goes abroad to university, then comes back to Indonesia, their country of birth, and wants to get a job, how do they get a work permit/ITAP etc.? Let's say they want to be a doctor (or other job on the restricted list)?
Most that I know of, don't come back. They study abroad and work abroad. An Indonesian passport is a weak passport for international border-less work. I don't know any going to study for a medical degree. Most go into engineering, business, or tech and don't pass up a chance at a higher salary and early career path abroad. Indonesia pays shit to recent graduates, but progresses faster. Most other developed country's start at an extreme higher salary than Indonesia, but the salary progresses at a slower rate.

A few can progress enough in a career in tech to be digital nomads. They qualify for an automatic ITAP for former dual citizens, and play the same game as all the rest of the other expats staying in Indonesia on spouse sponsored ITAP without IMTA. The few with a family business have the option to go back to that. I assume most will get away with it easier than any bule. They look more asian, speak naturally, and easily pass as Indonesian. Most people wouldn't assume they aren't citizens. They also have a foreign degree and speak fluent Indonesian, which gives them an advantage over most other foreigners applying for an IMTA qualified job.

I can't imagine anyone in the exact scenario of spending the cost and effort to get a foreign MD and foregoing the salary of practicing medicine in a developed country and instead wanting to practice in Indonesia. If they wanted to practice medicine in Indonesia, I don't see why they would even study abroad. If foreigners are excluded, why would they even accept foreign degrees in the medical field?

If wanting to work in a closed profession where they can't find a work permit, I would assume they would just reapply for Indonesian citizenship, under ""the applicant has resided in Indonesian territory... at least 10 (ten) years intermittently".
 

jukung11

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Jukung,

Thanks for that information. Our Agent told us of the rukes but when he took all the relevant docs to Immigration, he was told that it would all have to be submitted to and handled by the Indonesian Embassy in the USA. We are having it reconfirmed by the main office in Jakarta and it seems that that is the case.

That goes along I could get from PP No. 2, 2007 of the procedure for renouncing citizenship and loosing citizenship abroad. I didn't post it, because it is too much. It is the job of the communities and institutions outside the territory to report it to the Minister where the former citizen is domiciled. Also under article 60 "shall be conveyed to officials or representatives of the Republic of Indonesia whose working area covers domicile of the children ". If your son is choosing U.S. citizenship, it would be logical that would be where he has to report to.
 

dafluff

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So if a child chooses the foreign passport, goes abroad to university, then comes back to Indonesia, their country of birth, and wants to get a job, how do they get a work permit/ITAP etc.? Let's say they want to be a doctor (or other job on the restricted list)?
They would be treated just like any other foreigner wanting to work in Indonesia, perhaps with the exception that they can get KITAP as ex-WNI.

Restricted list jobs are out of the question.

It's an incredibly shortsighted position to not allow dual nationality, and Indonesia is losing a large amount of talent and investments due to this. I have yet to hear an acceptable argument of against dual nationality. All of it is based on misguided, archaic nationalism.
 

Helpful Herbert

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Yes indeed. Amazing that someone born and brought up in a country can be treated as a foreigner, just because they do not have enough money to go through the difficult process* of renouncing their other nationality.
[*difficult in some countries]
 

Minuteman

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News from the Feds...just leave, return as dual status till age 21 then can apply for a KITAP. If choosing the foreign nationality then must declare to the Indonesian Embassy in that country and turn in all relevant docs.

Very strange that the rule says the individual can make the decision from the age of 18 till 23 but there is no provision to get it done here in Indonesia.
 

dafluff

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Very strange that the rule says the individual can make the decision from the age of 18 till 23 but there is no provision to get it done here in Indonesia.
Probably to do with the fact that if you give up WNI citizenship while in Indonesia you are then in the country without status? They didn't put any provisions in the law for what to do in case someone wishes to give up WNI status, but still live in Indonesia immediately thereafter.
 

Minuteman

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Probably to do with the fact that if you give up WNI citizenship while in Indonesia you are then in the country without status? They didn't put any provisions in the law for what to do in case someone wishes to give up WNI status, but still live in Indonesia immediately thereafter.
All we wanted was a termination of dual nationality an an EPO in his US passport. Makes no sense the way it is set up.
 

dafluff

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All we wanted was a termination of dual nationality an an EPO in his US passport. Makes no sense the way it is set up.
Can't have EPO in US passport if he doesn't have anything that needs an EPO ie. KITAS/KITAP.

It's an oversight or they simply don't care.

Anyway, its not a big deal, just mail everything in to the US Indonesian embassy when he is in the US.
 
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Helpful Herbert

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They didn't put any provisions in the law for what to do in case someone wishes to give up WNI status, but still live in Indonesia immediately thereafter.
Or if they don't wish to give up WNI status but are forced to because they are unable to give up their other passport. I guess if they don't travel outside the country, they can just get by with the KTP.
[I am thinking of a case where a child is registered as a dual citizen, but due to unfortunate circumstances and the family breaking up, is, by the age of 21, living in reduced circumstances in a kampung somewhere. I don't know of a case like this, but I'm sure it exists].
 

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