Suggestions for building a house

Edward

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Talking of shoddy workmanship, ...............

The house was fitted with uPVC windows and doors and the gaps where huge, as you can see from the attached images. These windows were supposed to be closed. The door catch was a classic. They obviously bodged the cutting and then insert pieces behind to try and fix it.

. ;)

View attachment 1038 View attachment 1039 View attachment 1040
It seems to me the problem here is the flimsy nature of the frame. Flimsy frames will bend and never fit tight. They are also easy to bust in through. Where does one buy sturdy frames for doors and windows? More to the point, why do contractors building classy houses use such crappy frames?
 

jstar

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.
Layogenic.
(There are languages that catch this phenomenom with one word only.)

It's kind of simple; gengsi triggers that it has to look good of course but also there's a line of thought that it's okay if a house needs to be completely renovated in ten years time. And when buying something, often everything is torn out anyway.

And there's no good training of course: electricians or plumbers or the guys that fix your AC or waterpumps are often trained on the job by a senior, who was also trained on the job, .....

Now that's also a reason why sitting there all the time to supervise or to 'keep an eye on the work' won't do any good. People who think that will lead to positive results haven't been involved in real big projects here. First of all most of us don't have a technical background that covers everything (even as expert on electricity you won't know roofing, plumbing, septic and water tanks or tiling). Secondly, they work a certain way and use certain techniques that make sense over here, because of the climate and (lack of) materials for instance. Thirdly you'd have to change your way of thinking; labor is cheap, tools and machines are not, so even if something does not look efficient, it is effective. Lastly you will get tremendously frustrating and fire people constantly which will leave you with nobody.

The only thing you can do besides random checks during the project, is to have a short list with must haves and constraints. And do your own QC on those. Copy (realistic!) parts of building regulations from your own country if you're unsure where to start.

As example; all wires for stopkontak should be 2,5 mm and for lamps 1,5. Max. 5 wall outlets per MCB. Wet spaces get their own MCB group and there a RCD/GFI is required (many never heard of that, even new houses here almost never have them). With tiling, the starting tile should be in the far corner which you see (they calculate here first and try to mirror). Water repellent/proofing should be applied on walls and in the cement before the tiling (forget lem semen unless you want to explain a whole new way of working). Concrete nails are not allowed on new walls but everything as AC units should be attached by using screws and plugs. Every water using unit (toilet, sink) should have an own shut-off valve on the wall. Etc. etc. etc.

That way you have at least the basics covered. And you won't go crazy by worrying why they don't use plaster mortar but cement and why they don't use a mixer for cement or why they throw in so much water and dilute the paint too much.

If you're buying into a new development project, be it apartment or house, you will only have a 1-6 month warranty btw. That's a bit different from the 10 year that is defined by law in many European countries. It explains a lot...
 
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waarmstrong

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..... If ever I was to get a new house built, I would be onsite almost 100% of the time to keep an eye on the work.
I agree whole-heartedly. Being on site when anything is being done is absolutely essential.
 

jstar

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Being there all the time is practically impossible. And even when you’re there and explain what you want, they say yes and do something different behind your back



.
Tukang Bangunan, " Pipa hiyeee.. And hiyee.. And Hiyee Pipa.. No Good.. And Plukk And Hiyee.. Water Plukk.. Plukk.. Water Full Hiyee.. E'ek Hiyee.." .
.
Pemilik Rumah, "E'eekk...?" .
.
Tukang Bangunan, " Yess..!!!" .
.
Pemilik Rumah, "So E'eekk in The Plukk Plukk...?" .
.
Tukang Bangunan, " E'ekk Hiyee.. Plukk Hiyee.. Water Hiyee Full.. And Go Water to Prrrrr Hiyee.. And Hiyee No.. And Hiyee I Plukk.. And Water Hiyee.. Plukk.. Yess..!"
.

Great example of a pidgin language....
 
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jstar

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I don't think I already mentioned those two 'rules' I pay attention to with the workers:

Let them take off all wall outlet covers when painting walls. Don't start that BS with taping them. And let them put plastic or newspaper on the floors. Over here they will use a liter of thinner to clean afterwards, for them that is easier.

Avoid concrete nails at all costs. Holes in walls etc. need to be drilled, and plastic plugs (they often call it 'fisher' her, after the German brand) need to be used. Otherwise hanging the aircon units and putting in doors etc. will destroy your walls and the cracks will only become visible after some months (and vibration).



It is not easy to find the plugs for the gyproc here btw, the model that opens in the empty space, so take them when you visit home.
 

make_batik_great_again

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Has anyone gathered experience regarding ulin / iron wood? What 'lifespan' should someone expect for a building made from ulin / iron wood?
 

centurion

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Has anyone gathered experience regarding ulin / iron wood? What 'lifespan' should someone expect for a building made from ulin / iron wood?
Should last forever. In Kalimantan, it is used for construction, for supporting beams, and considering that it does not get rotten, it is used for house piles that go into the ground-Kalimantan village houses are on small square pillars.
 

make_batik_great_again

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Should last forever. In Kalimantan, it is used for construction, for supporting beams, and considering that it does not get rotten, it is used for house piles that go into the ground-Kalimantan village houses are on small square pillars.
Sounds like a not so bad idea to build a house by using ulin/ironwood then. Also termites and other crawlers do not eat this kind of wood if I am informed correctly. Any disadvantageous of this building material?
 

centurion

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The disadvantage is the price. I remember that the price of wooden beam 10cmx10cmx300cm in Kalimantan, where the tree grows, was 500.000 Rp/piece.
 

make_batik_great_again

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The disadvantage is the price. I remember that the price of wooden beam 10cmx10cmx300cm in Kalimantan, where the tree grows, was 500.000 Rp/piece.
Yes, price and sustainability would come to my mind as well. Regarding sustainability, I am of two minds. On the one hand, I read that the trees grow quite slow. On the other hand, the buildings built by ulin wood can be used for a longer period compared to other materials.

Regarding the price...I heard of building prices between 3.5 and 5 juta per square metre. Is that realistic?
 

centurion

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Ulin is endangered, and on the top of it, it grows slowly, so high prices are common.
It is also used for boats.
 

make_batik_great_again

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Ulin is endangered, and on the top of it, it grows slowly, so high prices are common.
It is also used for boats.
Regarding sustainability not a good choice then :( Another option we are considering is a building made from shipping containers. I know that there already are some reliable companies in Europe. And also in Indonesia I have seen some container buildings (libraries and cafes).

Probably, this is a better choice regarding environment and the whole eco topic since, as far as I know, they use used containers here and do not produce new ones for the building like some companies in Europe. So, it can be seen as some kind of recycling :p But I wonder how long you could live in the building after it is finished...rust could be a problem for example.
 

R Cameron

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But I wonder how long you could live in the building after it is finished...rust could be a problem for example.
They are made with a special kind of steel which is extremely rust resistant: https://outbackstoragecontainers.com/obsblog/1832-metal-shipping-containers-ri-steel-storage-containers-what-kind-of-steel
If the container roof was your only roof, perhaps it could become a problem after many years, but if you also install roofing above the container the steel of the container should then last a lifetime.

The greatest problem with shipping containers would be the limitations of the dimensions. You can't have a room more than about 2.3m wide or 2.7m tall. High cube container dimensions: https://www.searates.com/reference/equipment/3/
 

make_batik_great_again

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They are made with a special kind of steel which is extremely rust resistant: https://outbackstoragecontainers.com/obsblog/1832-metal-shipping-containers-ri-steel-storage-containers-what-kind-of-steel
If the container roof was your only roof, perhaps it could become a problem after many years, but if you also install roofing above the container the steel of the container should then last a lifetime.

The greatest problem with shipping containers would be the limitations of the dimensions. You can't have a room more than about 2.3m wide or 2.7m tall. High cube container dimensions: https://www.searates.com/reference/equipment/3/
Oh, I did not know that I could expect such a lifespan from container houses. That sounds good.

Regarding the limitation: But you can combine several containers. For example two containers next to each other, then it is 4.6 m wide.

What I like about the container idea is that I would be less worried about the building quality of the walls and the ceiling since the container's steel is the building framework. I heard some bad stories about the building quality here; so I would like to feel confident at least about the building framework :)
 

dafluff

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They are made with a special kind of steel which is extremely rust resistant: https://outbackstoragecontainers.com/obsblog/1832-metal-shipping-containers-ri-steel-storage-containers-what-kind-of-steel
If the container roof was your only roof, perhaps it could become a problem after many years, but if you also install roofing above the container the steel of the container should then last a lifetime.

The greatest problem with shipping containers would be the limitations of the dimensions. You can't have a room more than about 2.3m wide or 2.7m tall. High cube container dimensions: https://www.searates.com/reference/equipment/3/
When this forum started, I figured we can have answers on visa stuff and Indonesian language and culture every now and then. But it's pretty cool that we have such a wide variety of topics.

My addition to this: may want to check with local building by-laws. Shipping containers almost certainly will not comply with Bali by-laws that require traditional Balinese elements be incorporated for a building permit to be issued.
 

jstar

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I have used ironwood for the top of a bathroom cupboard and it's amazingly difficult to manipulate. Just too hard.

The container idea might be a good one. If you go with something like this, I don't think anybody would disapprove or even know you're using them:





A possible problem I see, is the heat. Metal and flat roofs, hmm. Then you'd need a green roof or so on top.

Of course it depends on the location (noise, pollution and heat), but personally I strongly believe in ventilation and keep it open. Of course insects could be a problem then and you'd probably have to make a difference between living room area and bedrooms.

Another idea is to have a wooden house shipped from Sulawesi or so. (Search for Woloan.)
.
 

make_batik_great_again

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When this forum started, I figured we can have answers on visa stuff and Indonesian language and culture every now and then. But it's pretty cool that we have such a wide variety of topics.
I totally agree. (y)

My addition to this: may want to check with local building by-laws. Shipping containers almost certainly will not comply with Bali by-laws that require traditional Balinese elements be incorporated for a building permit to be issued.
I am not so familiar with the Bali laws. But maybe it would be possible to incorporate those Balinese elements into the container building´s facade. It is a good point though; and people who plan such a project there, should check that at the beginning of the planning period. If we really decide to build a container house, we will also check if there are (local) laws in our area which need to be considered.
 

make_batik_great_again

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I have used ironwood for the top of a bathroom cupboard and it's amazingly difficult to manipulate. Just too hard.

The container idea might be a good one. If you go with something like this, I don't think anybody would disapprove or even know you're using them:





A possible problem I see, is the heat. Metal and flat roofs, hmm. Then you'd need a green roof or so on top.

Of course it depends on the location (noise, pollution and heat), but personally I strongly believe in ventilation and keep it open. Of course insects could be a problem then and you'd probably have to make a difference between living room area and bedrooms.

Another idea is to have a wooden house shipped from Sulawesi or so. (Search for Woloan.)
.
I also like those wooden houses from Sulawesi, but yet I was not successful in convincing my wife that we should consider this :D

When it comes to container houses, the heat is definitely an issue. So far, I did not see a container house without an air-con in Indonesia. But with air-condition there should be no problem...if you combine the building with solar panels on the roof, an eco-friendly thinking person probably does not even need to feel guilty about the air-con :D But maybe there are also other ways to avoid too much heat in the building, I haven´t checked that yet.

Edit:
Quick google search led me to this; seems that the temperature issue can be handled in different ways:
https://www.gatewaycontainersales.com.au/dos-and-donts-of-building-a-shipping-container-home-in-the-desert/
 
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R Cameron

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