Questions regarding Covid-19 Vaccination

dannyboy

Active Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
65
Hey guys, I don't know much about vaccines. I'm curious about what you are thinking regarding the covid-19 vaccination plan for Indonesia (assuming you want to be vaccinated of course)...

1. The gov will be importing 3 from China, 'Sinovac, G42/Sinopharm dan CanSino Biologics' and 1 from the UK, AstraZaneca with various amounts of doses. Surely, they are not all the same product with just different branding (Some based on modified adenovirus, some based on mRNA). Hence my question is: if you happen to opt for the 'wrong one' (as it eventually revealed in the future), how risky is it to get another shot? Or would you rather wait and see?

2. Let's say everything goes well with the phase 3 trials, and they start to offer vaccination early January next year. How confident are you in getting one locally?

3. Considering that there ain't that many vaccines available...Do you reckon WNA will be the lowest in their priority? Would it be better to get it from your home country?

Thanks!
 

dafluff

Moderator
Moderator
Cager
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
3,945
Hey guys, I don't know much about vaccines. I'm curious about what you are thinking regarding the covid-19 vaccination plan for Indonesia (assuming you want to be vaccinated of course)...

1. The gov will be importing 3 from China, 'Sinovac, G42/Sinopharm dan CanSino Biologics' and 1 from the UK, AstraZaneca with various amounts of doses. Surely, they are not all the same product with just different branding (Some based on modified adenovirus, some based on mRNA). Hence my question is: if you happen to opt for the 'wrong one' (as it eventually revealed in the future), how risky is it to get another shot? Or would you rather wait and see?

2. Let's say everything goes well with the phase 3 trials, and they start to offer vaccination early January next year. How confident are you in getting one locally?

3. Considering that there ain't that many vaccines available...Do you reckon WNA will be the lowest in their priority? Would it be better to get it from your home country?

Thanks!

1. Ideally vaccination will start after phase 3 trials are completed and results are published and peer reviewed. This will allow you to determine which one is the best/safest one. In this way, Indonesia's aggressiveness in seeking out many different sources of vaccines is a good strategy, not putting all the eggs in one basket, as it were. The risk of getting one type of vaccination, then another type deemed better, can't be said for sure at this time. If I were to guess, it won't be a big risk. Once you are vaccinated you can test for antibodies, and if they are present then you're done. Adding another vaccine probably will at worst just be risking additional side effects.

2. I will definitely not be first in line, especially if I haven't seen a satisfactory published result. Right now the vaccines have (understandably) been developed faster than any other in history, and that in itself carries risk. How big a risk we don't know yet, pending phase 3 trials. Normally phase 3 trials last for years, so that any long term effects may be found, but it seems that for Covid vaccines these are now shortened to 6 months (or less). So the actual vaccination campaign will be de facto an extended phase 3 trial.

3. WNA will not be priority for any type of "free" vaccine of course. But if you pay, I'm sure you can get one on the first day, if you want.
 

gemima

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 25, 2016
Messages
263
As long as the vaccines have passed phase 3 trials I'll be happy to take any of the 3. I doubt there will be a "wrong one" as the trials take efficacy into account as well as safety. These vaccines are being tested on much much larger numbers of subjects than usual for a phase 3 study so I'll be confident as long as I can review the outcomes (they will be published for all to see).
Safety of vaccines has been unfortunatley whipped up so badly in recent times- they are in the overwhelming vast majority of cases safe with very few side effects. Our societies have benefited so much from vaccination that we seem to have forgotten how awful many vaccine prevented diseases really are.
Regarding priorities of who gets access to the vaccines you can be sure that rich people willing to pay here will get access - I really hope they ensure that healthcare workers are head of the queue though.
 

Dave70

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
343
Dahlan Ishkan mentioned in his article published yesterday https://www.disway.id/r/1095/lari-duluan who will be prioritized to get the vaccine. He also explained that the government is buying both finished and semi-finished vaccines. Recommended reading but it's in Indonesian.
 

Helpful Herbert

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Messages
508
The next question would be, what will you feel confident doing after you've had a vaccine. Most experts seem to agree they don't stop you getting infected (or even from then infecting other people), but they can give you a headstart on fighting the virus which means you may only get mild symptoms or none.

Would someone who has rarely left home in 7 months (such as .. me, for instance) then be out going to malls, getting on planes etc.? Especially when you know only a small % of people here will get the vaccine?
 

gemima

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 25, 2016
Messages
263
The next question would be, what will you feel confident doing after you've had a vaccine. Most experts seem to agree they don't stop you getting infected (or even from then infecting other people), but they can give you a headstart on fighting the virus which means you may only get mild symptoms or none.

Would someone who has rarely left home in 7 months (such as .. me, for instance) then be out going to malls, getting on planes etc.? Especially when you know only a small % of people here will get the vaccine?
Its more - how many people get it along with you - if 65 to 70% of people have it we might be near to herd immunity - below that its not so much use (but yes hopefully it will make any infections less serious). Its a long road ahead. I think it will probably be useful for travel to regions where there is more widespread vaccination.
 

dannyboy

Active Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
65
So, for argument's sake, let's say that my whole big family gets vaccinated, and we develop acceptable antibodies...does it mean that our risk management (wearing mask, distancing, wash hand, etc.) now is mostly directed towards other people rather than for us?

i.e. I don't have to alcohol wipe off every single delivery packet at the front door and disinfect the dining table at the food court before using it?
 

gemima

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 25, 2016
Messages
263
So, for argument's sake, let's say that my whole big family gets vaccinated, and we develop acceptable antibodies...does it mean that our risk management (wearing mask, distancing, wash hand, etc.) now is mostly directed towards other people rather than for us?

i.e. I don't have to alcohol wipe off every single delivery packet at the front door and disinfect the dining table at the food court before using it?
If you are all relatively young and healthy I think vaccination should mean you can certainly relax on some behaviours but if you have elderly relatives I would be cautious. We know that the flu vaccine is less effective in older people. We dont know if this will be the case for the COVID-19 vaccines but its likely as older people have less effective immune systems.
With all vaccines the strength is in weight of numbers obtaining the vaccine (herd immunity) rather than the benefits to the individuals I'm afraid.
 

dafluff

Moderator
Moderator
Cager
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
3,945
The next question would be, what will you feel confident doing after you've had a vaccine. Most experts seem to agree they don't stop you getting infected (or even from then infecting other people), but they can give you a headstart on fighting the virus which means you may only get mild symptoms or none.

Would someone who has rarely left home in 7 months (such as .. me, for instance) then be out going to malls, getting on planes etc.? Especially when you know only a small % of people here will get the vaccine?

Early results does seem to show that rather than conferring immunity, the vaccines will give your antibodies a head start. Similar to flu vaccine. In this case, your chance of not getting really sick is very much improved, however you could still get sick and transmit the disease to someone.

Now if you are not a risk to transmit the disease to some high risk people (for example, you do not live with a diabetic, elderly parent), then you could probably relax your standards quite a bit. Personally I think even after they get vaccinated, people should still wear a mask so that they do not inadvertently spread the disease.

In fact, if the vaccine does reduce the severity of the disease, but still allow transmission, then wearing a mask as a society becomes even more important, as more asymptomatic transmission will occur.
 

dannyboy

Active Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
65

It is interesting to note how the early emergency use permit might affect the ongoing clinical studies of Vaccine (which might take another year to complete). For example, would volunteer like Ridwan Kamil be allowed to get vaccinated early next year?
 

gemima

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 25, 2016
Messages
263

It is interesting to note how the early emergency use permit might affect the ongoing clinical studies of Vaccine (which might take another year to complete). For example, would volunteer like Ridwan Kamil be allowed to get vaccinated early next year?
He will have signed up to certain restrictions to be included in the study that means if he takes a vaccine early next year he'll probably be withdrawn from the study he is taking part of. Its a bit shit for the ones in the placebo group. Who knows if they have overwhelming good evidence of efficacy they might be able to wind up the study early, vaccinate the placebo group and just follow the health outcomes of the treated group but I'd say that's unlikely. If they have clear evidence that the vaccine is not working they can also wind up the trial early (its not ethical to string them out unnecessarily).
 

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:0)

Follow Us

Latest Expat Indo Articles

Latest Activity

New posts Latest threads

Latest Tweets by Expat Indo

Online Now

Newest Members

Forum Statistics

Threads
4,734
Messages
72,359
Members
2,085
Latest member
farid8
Top Bottom