Prenup and post-nuptial agreements

centurion

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Unofficially Constitutional Court of Indonesia on today`s final session about challenging the Agrarian law for stripping Indonesian spouses in mixed marriages from right to own land, allowed besides making prenups also right to make post-nuptial agreements so the mix married couples can split the joint property.
The news are from the persons present on today`s session.
 
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Anglian

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Unofficially Constitutional Court of Indonesia on today`s final session about challenging the Agrarian law for stripping Indonesian spouses in mixed marriages from right to own land, allowed besides making prenups also right to make post-nuptial agreements so the mix married couples can split the joint property.
The news are from the persons present on today`s session.
Interesting, we will have to wait and see
 

Davita

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Unofficially Constitutional Court of Indonesia on today`s final session about challenging the Agrarian law for stripping Indonesian spouses in mixed marriages from right to own land, allowed besides making prenups also right to make post-nuptial agreements so the mix married couples can split the joint property.
The news are from the persons present on today`s session.
That's great news centurion and thanks for posting. I'm not sure that a post-nup would allow 'splitting' a joint 'hak milik' property but can permit the WNI spouse to own outright irrespective of having a WNA husband...which was not permitted before.

This ruling will affect many members and friends so if anyone gets the official reading please post...
 

jstar

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Didn't you mention Christmas 2015 before?

And if the verdict is 'positive', how long will it take to adapt the necessary UU's? One year? Three years? Five? Ten?
 

jstar

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....can permit the WNI spouse to own outright irrespective of having a WNA husband...which was not permitted before...
That is not completely correct David; if the WNI spouse inherits property during the marriage or already owned land before the marriage, they are already safe.
 

Jim69

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That is not completely correct David; if the WNI spouse inherits property during the marriage or already owned land before the marriage, they are already safe.

I was under the impression that if no pre-nup, if the WNI spouse inherited land then it had to be sold within one year.

With pre-nup it is ok
 

Davita

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That is not completely correct David; if the WNI spouse inherits property during the marriage or already owned land before the marriage, they are already safe.
Your post, based on your 'edited quote' of my post takes it out of context so, of course, it isn't completely correct....anyway, I didn't write to be pedantic on the whole subject.

It was a general comment coming from centurion's post 'post-nuptial agreements so the mix married couples can split the joint property'...which isn't correct.
 

Davita

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I was under the impression that if no pre-nup, if the WNI spouse inherited land then it had to be sold within one year.

With pre-nup it is ok
Sorry Jim your impression is wrong....inherited property does not come under joint property...pre-nup or not.
You may have heard that if a WNA inherits Hak Milik property then that property must be disposed within one year.
 

dafluff

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Sorry Jim your impression is wrong....inherited property does not come under joint property...pre-nup or not.
You may have heard that if a WNA inherits Hak Milik property then that property must be disposed within one year.
This is correct.
 

fastpitch17

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That is not completely correct David; if the WNI spouse inherits property during the marriage or already owned land before the marriage, they are already safe.
I believe you can add gifted property to that also.
 

jstar

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The decision is on the website already, it has 158 pages
Sorry dude, but that is just too much. Can you give an 'executive summary'?


I believe you can add gifted property to that also.
That is a grey area; you could 'lend' the parents of the WNI money so they buy the house and give this to their son or daughter. Of course this would be considered as circumventing the law completely.
 
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centurion

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Dude, hint for you-read the bottomline, it`s just 2-3 pages ;)

Basically the Court approved the appeal agains the article 29 of the Marriage Law (prenup only before marriage) because it discriminates Indonesian citizens that are left without right to own land, apartments, shares etc in case that they don`t have prenup. Now such agreement can be made anytime during marriage, under consideration that it does not hurt third parties.

Sorry dude, but that is just too much. Can you give an 'executive summary'?




That is a grey area; you could 'lend' the parents of the WNI money so they buy the house and give this to their son or daughter. Of course this would be considered as circumventing the law completely.
 
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Davita

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Thanks Ali but there was a thread titled "Pre-nups and post-nups agreement" started yesterday...on this very subject.
To avoid confused x-postings could you please ask the mods to integrate your thread, to that thread, so we can all be on the same page....thank you.
 

jstar

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Okay, so the Marriage Law stipulations (having a prenup before the wedding) are discarded. And the Agrarian Law stands, right?

Therefore it should be possible to make a postnup during the marriage but a written (notarized) agreement itself will always be necessary. So now the question is how and when the UU will be adapted? And what about the situation in limbo (i.e. after the courts's decision but before the change in law)?
 
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Davita

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I'm confused ....OK! no smart-ass comments ...please.

Seemed to me all they had to do was make a ruling to permit post-nup agreements to have the same lawful standing as pre-nup agreements. (pre-nups are legal in Marriage Law but post-nups aren't even mentioned, so, presumably, not legally available)

Reading this article I cannot see how they intend to abrogate the pre-nup. Meaning, all married couples, irrespective of citizenship, have equal status in regard to joint assets ..and somehow that gives back Constitutional Rights to the WNI spouse in a mixed marriage.

I'm confused as to how that can comply with Marriage Law where both spouses have joint assets....meaning the WNA spouse will own half of a Hak Milik property.
Agrarian law says a WNA cannot be an owner of HM property....

Seems to me this is back to square one.


Edit: I re-read the article and can see the wording had me confused...so what's new...

The court decided on Thursday to eliminate the requirement for a prenuptial marriage agreement in Article 29 of the 1974 Marriage Law, paving the way for thousands of Indonesians who are married to foreign nationals to own property as they can now create an agreement on separate ownership during their marriage.

I believe that means they can notarise a post-nup ......anytime they are considering buying property.....as per my 2nd sentence above.
 
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Anglian

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Like Davita a bit confused, does that mean we now have to have a post nup, as it happens we have sold a house without a prenup, a friend of mine has sold two, one aspect though I haven't come across is if ones Indonesian wife dies, and you have one year to dispose of your property, but I'm assuming with this new legislation the requirement to sell is now cancelled
 

fastpitch17

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After all these years of telling the relatives and others that we can't own land because we have no prenup, this is a threat. At our age and no one we plan on leaving things to we always felt renting would be a lot cheaper and we didn't need to worry about leaving property to anyone. Now, if they get wind of this, they will start pestering us again.
 

Davita

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Like Davita a bit confused, does that mean we now have to have a post nup, as it happens we have sold a house without a prenup, a friend of mine has sold two, one aspect though I haven't come across is if ones Indonesian wife dies, and you have one year to dispose of your property, but I'm assuming with this new legislation the requirement to sell is now cancelled
My read is the only thing that has changed is a WNI can buy HM property, notwithstanding who he/she is married to. If married to a foreigner.... a notarized agreement will need to be written to ensure separation of HM property, as joint property.

I'd call that a post-nup but they might have different terminology and method of legalizing the agreement...who knows.

If the WNI dies the property will revert to the inheritee (as it isn't joint property) and, if that is a WNA, it will still need to be disposed of within one year.
 

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