Money transfer out of Indonesia (the other way). Any suggestions?

[pantaiema]

That's down to the beneficiary then. Not the remitter.
You are talking to the wrong side

I am not quite sure why is it matter either the beneficiary is you or anyone else.
If you are paying someone or yourself, if a person is expecting to get GBP 547.94 and you or whoever the beneficiary is, will only get GBP 542.61, does anyone want to accept that ?
Say a person on the other side will need to get GBP 547.94 the sender will need to pay 1IDR10.086.700 (not IDR10m)+ IDR 35.000 fee. So it is an Additional of IDR121.700 for the sender compared to WISE.
But I agree that for some people that difference is not worthy if it is just a one off occasion, not regular.

 

[snpark]

I have tried explaining this several times I am not sure what it is you don't understand.
What you send and what the remitter says you will receive is independant of any receiving charges the beneficiary bank might charge at their end for receiving the money unless you stipulate you will pay ALL charges inc the beneficiary bank charges or pay extra so that they get the same amount

Even on WUMT when you send money and it says $1,000 sent, receiver will get 14,535,267.23 rp it does not mean they will get that. There could be a collection fee maybe $10 or if you send WUMT directly to a bank account you might still receive LESS than what th MTCN says simply because the receiver bank may charge a small fee
Got it?

 

[pantaiema]

I have tried explaining this several times I am not sure what it is you don't understand.
What you send and what the remitter says you will receive is independant of any receiving charges the beneficiary bank might charge at their end for receiving the money unless you stipulate you will pay ALL charges inc the beneficiary bank charges or pay extra so that they get the same amount

Even on WUMT when you send money and it says $1,000 sent, receiver will get 14,535,267.23 rp it does not mean they will get that. There could be a collection fee maybe $10 or if you send WUMT directly to a bank account you might still receive LESS than what th MTCN says simply because the receiver bank may charge a small fee
Got it?

I agree with that.
But Is there any fees transferring money from your WISE to other people WISE account in the same currency?

If the remitter is sending from WISE or BCA to another person bank account the fee paid by the beneficiary will be irrelevant. Whether there is another fee to be paid (or no fee at all), will all depend on the beneficiary bank account T&C. These fees on the other end is irrelevant because either you are using WISE, BCA or whatever method the remitter is using that fees is still due to be paid (or no fee at all). BCA or WISE will not be able to control this as it will all depend on the beneficiary Bank T&C.

But I understand If you’re sending money from your WISE account to someone else's WISE balance (of the same currency), it’s free.

Also People might be converting money to be used by themselves, when they are travelling to another country, not to be used to pay another party. In this case there is no other bank or institution will need to get involved if it is a multi currency account, only internal conversion is needed. WISE is good for this as it could hold multi currencies. Other are HSBC Global money account, Fineco, Revolut, etc.

 

[snpark]

I don't use wise or transferwise as I have mentioned previously so I don't know their setup

I don't trust it and seems now more and more people having problems using it needing extra info checks, plus it got hacked etc

Even paypal to paypal they charge the receiver when he "withdraws" it so you never actually receive the amount in full that was sent

 

[Ruserious]

When i transfer USD between HSBC accounts in different countries the charge is flat $8 and its instant. Unfortunately if you need to change currencies they have pretty bad exchange rates.

 

[jstar]

Even paypal to paypal they charge the receiver when he "withdraws" it so you never actually receive the amount in full that was sent

Yeah that‘s one of the worse; if someone pays for an eBay purchase in the ‘own’ currency it makes sense. But transferring bigger funds to a different currency…

Unfortunately if you need to change currencies they have pretty bad exchange rates.

And that really bites you in the @ss with larger amounts. The BCA online exchange rate is not bad, then my bank in Europe will only charge €9. But that is €25 at the loket. Great for people like my father

 

[Ruserious]

And that really bites you in the @ss with larger amounts

For larger amounts i call HSBC and get a much much better rate and then transfer in that currency, but this means you have to different currency accounts in each country.

 

[gemima]

Yeah that‘s one of the worse; if someone pays for an eBay purchase in the ‘own’ currency it makes sense. But transferring bigger funds to a different currency…

And that really bites you in the @ss with larger amounts. The BCA online exchange rate is not bad, then my bank in Europe will only charge €9. But that is €25 at the loket. Great for people like my father

I use Topremit and never had issues - I even use them at my office now. They have better exchange rates than BCA (after negotiation with a friendly bank manager) or HSBC. They also have a chat feature the whole way through the process so it is quite personalized. Its an Indonesian company and they have a banking license.

 

[R Cameron]

plus it got hacked etc

Don't spread that lie.
I'm guessing you're vaguely recalling this thread: https://www.expatindo.org/community/threads/transfer-wise-hacked.6055/
They were not hacked, a user gave away their account details to a scammer.

 

[Ruserious]

Don't spread that lie.

I think that this website need to either take down that thread or at least remove the title. It is the second result on google if you search for wise and hacked and is very very misleading.

 

[Will_M]

Generally speaking, BCA offer a better rate when you transfer more than 5k USD.

I’ve transferred hundreds of thousands over the years without a problem. I think transferring a few quid here and there then WISE maybe a benefit. Using BCA, I have 2-3 of their staff on WhatsApp I can contact if there is very a query and I don’t mind paying that for peace of mind.

I sent 100k USD to an offshore account a few years ago. For some reason BI held the funds and didn’t send them. Had a WhatsApp from my guy in BCA that I needed to sign a form in their office that they(or I) had missed and it was sorted as soon as I had the time to get into town.

I now use BCA online as it’s just easier than going into branch. Each to their own I guess.

 

[jstar]

For some reason BI held the funds and didn’t send them.

I don’t think that’s possible and you should not buy that crap from your bank. And that is one of the reasons I hate doing business with the bigger traditional banks; they always blame BI for their own procedures and processes.

 

[centurion]

I don’t think that’s possible and you should not buy that crap from your bank. And that is one of the reasons I hate doing business with the bigger traditional banks; they always blame BI for their own procedures and processes.

If the transfer is more than 100K USD, an underlying document is required.

In my experience, BCA is highly professional, contrary to HSBC (I understand HSBC is one of the most recognized for money laundering, hence the fees are higher).

 

[snpark]

I agree with all the above BCA comments. I also have several staff on my w/a
Never a problem with documents
Better rate for big amounts
I've been to the branch and signed forms and left ample extra docs there to show why I have so much money coming in and out my personal accounts due to a private investment I have in Bali provided pictures, emails etc so that they could see (none of which they asked for)
That why if someone sends me €100,000 to my personal a/c from Europe they know what is the reason already. I even send them the MT103 in advance.
I usually have the money before they even confirm to me it's arrived. And the better rate.

And yes BI can and will and often do hold an incoming transfer if it is deemed suspicious. There's nothing you can do unless you tell them why and what for its being sent.

In UK and US they give you grief for $10,000 sometimes

Here is a lot better. Especially if you are organised and have good relationship with your bank. Be clear and upfront and keep your information up to date with them kitas pp npwp etc etc

If someone sends you money always tell your bank first. Get a copy of the MT103. Show them. Double check spelling of name, number, swift, even the bank address etc. Sometimes it's correct on the form but the bank itself makes a typo inputting it so the mt103 might have one letter wrong or 1 number missing.

If you talk to the bank sometimes you can still get your money even if there is a message. You sign a liability form.

 

[snpark]

HSBC can be a pain in the ass sometimes months later they call asking about why you sent $500 to Dubai etc and I'm like that was January why you asking now? They really overkill sometimes. Maybe because they are a foreign bank here

 

[El_Goretto]

I think that this website need to either take down that thread or at least remove the title. It is the second result on google if you search for wise and hacked and is very very misleading.

Very good point, thanks for the suggestion.

I have amended the thread title to be more accurate. The good thing is that the thread title is also reflected in its URL: https://www.expatindo.org/community/threads/warning-social-engineering-scam.6055/

 

[Vicissidude]

Thanks everyone for your input and discussion! It's really helpful.

Okay I just got back from my BCA branch. To recap: I sent $100 to test out the process of sending to my Capital One acct in the US (which offers free incoming wires), but only received $83.

BCA says that they didn't charge any other fees, but they also don't send it direct to the beneficiary bank (Capital One). Instead, they send to one of their "correspondent banks" in the US, who then take out their own fee, in this case $17. For future transfers, they said they don't know where it goes, who the correspondent bank will be (they said maybe BoA or Standard Chartered, but they don't know, "random"), or how much the correspondent bank will charge. Will I be charged more for a larger transfer? "We don't know, random." To avoid this surprise mystery fee, you can pay BCA's "guaranteed full amount" fee of 25 USD.

So there you have it. I guess I'm just naive or ignorant about how SWIFT codes work. I thought it would go direct from BCA to Capital One, and not through some mystery middleman bank.

Anyway, let's please stop saying that transfering through BCA only costs 35rb or 35+30rb for sameday. It costs that much, plus either $25 or a mystery undisclosed amount to [somewhere, who knows, "random"]. This has nothing to do with the beneficiary bank, who may have their own fees as well. I'm a bit peaved that BCA didn't make this known beforehand, but $25 seems pretty standard. However, I don't see the "guaranteed full amount" option in KlikBCA... Can someone point it out for me? Also, have any of you ever been charged more than $25 when you didn't use that option?

 

[Vicissidude]

Generally speaking, BCA offer a better rate when you transfer more than 5k USD.

I think transferring a few quid here and there then WISE maybe a benefit.

This is the main takeaway for me. Sending a few hundred? Wise is cheaper. Sending a few thousand or more? Wise quickly becomes significantly more expensive.

I use Topremit and never had issues

I just checked again. I swear, last week Topremit had me losing about 1.1jt with their exchange rate of 100jt to USD. Today, only about 300rb. Good to know that it's been reliable for you! I'll keep it around at least to check my options again next time. It's worth checking first before moving a large amount.

 

[pantaiema]

When i transfer USD between HSBC accounts in different countries the charge is flat $8 and its instant. Unfortunately if you need to change currencies they have pretty bad exchange rates.

HSBC has a various different types current account. I believe you are using a regular current account. You might be lucky that fees is not enormous. If you are using what the people call "the bank / debitcard from hell" you might be paying triple, quadrupole that amount.
The one which is newly launches is called HSBC Global Money Account intended for Nomads.

Global Money Account | Travel Money Card - HSBC UK

Open a fee-free HSBC Global Money account and send, spend or exchange currency abroad. Download our HSBC UK Mobile Banking app and start today.

www.hsbc.co.uk

About this account I remembered I have mentioned it quite a few times in here.

There are a lot of things happen on the background when there is a need for currency conversions + transferring sending money to another person in different country, currency. More complicated with four parties are getting invoked, e.g. you, your local bank, the beneficiary's local bank in another countries, the receiver (beneficiary) himself. Add that complication when the fifth party, e.g. the third bank (e.g. "correspondent banks)" is getting involved.
This is where the confusion sometimes happen as it all happens on the background, you do not see it, you will only get surprised when the other end complaining / reporting the amount of money they receive or the amount of the money taken out from your current account. The institution especially the bank is trying to exploit people weakness from this point. The most important question here if you want to do like for like comparison is that how much the amount of money in particular currency you send and how much money the other person (or you) will get on the other end after all of the currency exchanges, the fees are accounted for.

There is a good discussion in this forum where genuine people have tested it themselves.

HSBC Global Money Account launched

HSBC have finally launched their Global Money Account in the UK.

forums.moneysavingexpert.com

I personally use HSBC global money account to create multiple currency wallets to the countries I visited often within this global money account. I could confirm you will get the exchange rate close to mid-market exchange rate, like you see in xe.com.

As I mentioned previously they have not got IDR currency wallet but it is in the pipeline. But they are currently serving major currencies in 18 different countries. If they have IDR later, I do not think any other method will beat this method in term of exchange rate and the speed, if you are using it for yourself by creating multiple currency wallets. Or even if you are paying someone else in different country in different currency as long as they also hold HSBC global money account.

 

[pantaiema]

If the transfer is more than 100K USD, an underlying document is required.

In my experience, BCA is highly professional, contrary to HSBC (I understand HSBC is one of the most recognized for money laundering, hence the fees are higher).

Any reputable bank, financial institution is required to do that. It is part of AML (Anti Money Laundering). Otherwise they might lose their licence and their reputation.