Missing Submarine

nosox

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Nimbus

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RIP. The chance of them found alive is astronomically small...
 

Puspawarna

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Oh, that's tragic. Even without knowing what happened, it seems like a particularly hideous way to go.
 

dafluff

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What a horrible situation.

The submarine, KRI Nangalla, is an almost 40-year-old boat, obtained from Germany in July 1981. She was refitted twice times, the last one in 2012 in South Korea. Typical service life for submarines in Western navies is between 30-40 years.

The Singaporean Navy has dispatched MV Swift Rescue, a submarine rescue vessel, to assist. However, it is expected to arrive on the scene only on April 24th, the same day that oxygen is projected to run out.

I hope for the best for this unfortunate crew.
 

harryopal

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The submarine has yet to be located. A container at deck level with an Epirb with cable could be opened to float the Epirb to the surface for quick tracking. A simple but inexpensive device which could be a life saver when time is lost trying to find the missing vessel. Very sad ending for these sailors.
 

ChrisTex

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One of my Grandpa's brothers was a Submariner during WW2 and his sub was lost(I think in the Pacific). I think some of the hardest parts for a family is how the person went out(died) and not being able to recover the bodies.
 

fastpitch17

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If the sub is not filled with water the crew has some time. Sometime Saturday they figure until oxygen runs out. Since it is 200 meters below it's dive limit, chances are good it is leaking if not already flooded in some sections. Crews are well trained to shut water tight hatches if flooding is occurring anywhere. So, oxigen may depend on just how many of the crew remains. As the number goes down, the time for oxygen increases. If any are alive and oxygen runs out they will still hear the fans and not know when the oxygen level reaches 0 unless someone is checking it with a flashlight. The ship will probably be in total darkness most likely so portable lighting will be all they have to rely on. Once oxygen gets low they will fall unconscious and will perish in their sleep. It will be painless but for some who are witnessing others passing out or acting strange due to the lack of oxygen, it can be frightening.
 

Balifrog

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The max diving depth for this sub was 250 m. Now you may consider a safety marging, say to 350 m, but probably cancelled by the age of the unit.
The news reports say it was lost in an area 700 m deep.
In that case sadly it will have been crushed by the sea pressure.
Now the original cause of the accident will be known only much later after discovery of the wreck. As the timing indicates they went silent immediately after the torpedo launch, I fear something went horribly wrong at that moment and was quasi instantly, and they could not chase the ballast for an emergency "jump" to the surface.
Note also that communication under water is very difficult and limited in reach.
Ex French Navy, but not a submariner.

The rescue ship from SGP should arrive on the spot tomorrow and has the appropriate equipment to locate it, or what remains of it.
 
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Bad_azz

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I have lots to say on this - however will keep it brief:
I hope they can locate the vessel & save lives. That would be marvellous and unexpected.
The search will continue long after the expected time scale for oxygen to run out.
This vessel is worth a LOT of money.
Human lives are not accounted for in maritime law salvage terms, missiles and property are.
Offers of help are not (always?) founded in the goodness of the hearts of those assisting in search/salvage.
Salvage is an expensive & high risk business in its own right & gets compensated if it was not a pre-arrangement. Hence when the terminology "offer of help" is used it means more than what it appears to on the surface.
 

Balifrog

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This vessel is worth a LOT of money
Dear, the submarine world is a harsh one.

The vessel is worth NOTHING anymore. It is now a wreck. And it was not worth much as it was 40y old, probably one of the oldest still in service worldwide.
Now, technically it SHOCKS me that such a small unit, with a usual crew of 34 / 35 took nearly 20 additional people on board, the boat is not designated for it.
Yes in.some "recon" mission a small team of "operators" will be on board, to be infiltrated somewhere.
But in this case, as it was a torpedo shoot exercise, i expect the "visitors" to be cadets, observers etc... But 20 additional staff, unfamiliar with the environment are simply a danger if shit happens and should never be allowed. They will simply panic and will hinder the crew to react to the incident.
Salvage at sea is a big business, but more in the civilian world.

Concerning the crew, as I mentionned and if the boat (a sub is called boat, not ship) sank, further to a incident, (torpedo explosion being the most likely), way beyond its max permissible depth, it will have been crushed by the water pressure on the hull.


If you want have an idea of what this is :


Now, dont think I am heartless, way from it. Submarine fatal accidents happen regulary. Russian Kourks, Chinese, Argentina (above), USA 2 or 3, France lost 2 in the 70's. Japan had a very close call a few months ago, and they were VERY lucky to stay afloat and survive.

Google or Wiki "submarine accidents".
 

Balifrog

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Another possible cause could be a Snorkel (schnorchel) malfunction.
This is the device that allows the sub to take air in.for its diesel engines when at periscope depth. As the accident happened just after diving, it could be a snorkel that did not close properly when diving. Happened a few times, but usually in rough seas, which is not the case here.


Hopefully investigation report will be made public in the future.
 

harryopal

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A grim simulation from Balifrog which does not offer much hope and a terrible time for families who will cling to the notion that perhaps..... ?

I am not claustrophobic but was impressed by how cramped the Australian Oberon class submarines were. Bunks were so narrow that if you lay on your back one arm would fall towards the floor. The mess and cooking area seemed less than the inside of a very small caravan. The "luxurious" captain's
cabin was about 8 x 8 feet. No showers and when submerged for long periods the air was a mix of body odour, cooking smells, diesel and in those days most crew smoked.

Other than officers, ordinary crew didn't get to use the periscope and so would be weeks on end with no idea of day or night other than their watches. It took a particular character to feel happy in that environment yet most crew were proud to be submariners. Ironically, at least with the Australian traditions, regular sailors generally didn't like submariners as submarines sink ships.

I hope Indonesia has reasonably generous pensions and benefits for the bereft families
 

fastpitch17

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This vessel is worth a LOT of money.
Human lives are not accounted for in maritime law salvage terms, missiles and property are.
Offers of help are not (always?) founded in the goodness of the hearts of those assisting in search/salvage.
Salvage is an expensive & high risk business in its own right & gets compensated if it was not a pre-arrangement. Hence when the terminology "offer of help" is used it means more than what it appears to on the surface.
I could say a lot too but I guess my main question is just who that has offered to help would you suggest we not trust that their intentions are honorable?
If the sub did implode it is now scatters along the sea bed and the only thing of any value to someone who may want to salvage it would be scrap metal. There are no missiles and while their may be some torpedos depending on explosions, they would not be of any modern weaponry. If in fact the boat is at 700 meters, I doubt there is anything of value since the cost of the salvage operation at such a dept would be enormous.

The best one can hope for at this time would be that some bodies can be recovered if they float to the surface. Unfortunate but it is something that every submariner knows can happen. Probably more safety precautions and safety drills on a sub than any other vessel at sea. Still, things can go wrong and sometimes do.
 

dafluff

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The navy believes the submarine has sunk to a depth of 850 metres below the surface, way beyond its maximum operating capacity or crush depth of 500m. But although acknowledging a miracle would be needed for anyone to have survived, the navy chief said the multinational search effort, which has been aided by Australia, would continue.

 

Bad_azz

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I could say a lot too but I guess my main question is just who that has offered to help would you suggest we not trust that their intentions are honorable?
If the sub did implode it is now scatters along the sea bed and the only thing of any value to someone who may want to salvage it would be scrap metal. There are no missiles and while their may be some torpedos depending on explosions, they would not be of any modern weaponry. If in fact the boat is at 700 meters, I doubt there is anything of value since the cost of the salvage operation at such a dept would be enormous.

The best one can hope for at this time would be that some bodies can be recovered if they float to the surface. Unfortunate but it is something that every submariner knows can happen. Probably more safety precautions and safety drills on a sub than any other vessel at sea. Still, things can go wrong and sometimes do.
I don't think I implied dishonour (whatever that may be)
Merely logic.

Aren't torpedoes missiles, much as bullets are missiles? & This Sub carries what is likely to be at least 1 million dollars worth- looking at its specs it can fire 4 at a time either Exocet /Harpoon
Reports say it was loaded - so that is where I get my calculations - I believe Excocet is 200,000 USD Harpoon over 1 million EACH

Seems we are miscommunicating.

I wasn't aware at the time of my post that it was in bits over 700 m down.

My guess is that the ones who offered help weren't either, at the time of their offer.
 
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Bad_azz

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The navy believes the submarine has sunk to a depth of 850 metres below the surface, way beyond its maximum operating capacity or crush depth of 500m. But although acknowledging a miracle would be needed for anyone to have survived, the navy chief said the multinational search effort, which has been aided by Australia, would continue.

So sad for those who lost their lives, I can't imagine any survivors from this :(
 

Balifrog

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My guess is that the ones who offered help weren't either, at the time of their offer
They are professionals, they come to the rescue. It's what people at sea do, but at the same time they are also fully aware of the probable situation.
 

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