Lots of wrongdoings get a pass because it's "nggak enak"

[Dharma Police]

"Nggak enak". How do I hate thee. Let me count the ways:

1. Lead designer was 2 hours late to a meeting, no apology. Said he never got the texts or calls. When urged to tell the truth, it was "nggak enak" to admit to tardiness.

2. Brand new fridge when we moved in. Suddenly there's a dent on the door after some tukang carrying a ladder left. Let me guess, "nggak enak"?

3. Colleague was out sick, and hospitalized for a time (not covid). I asked where I can send her flowers and pastries. Oh she's back home so don't worry, no need for gifts. But the bouquet was already prepared, food cooked and paid for. No matter. I'll never know the reason for refusing a gift because, you guessed it - ga enak.

4. Driver scratched up the car door and doesn't tell me. Hey, but as long as he gets to avoid an uncomfortable conversation that's all that matters.

5. This one's a classic. A good friend that I've known for 13 years is at our housewarming party, and this is the moment he decides to steal from me. Guess it's better to steal from a friend than to ask him for a 330rb bottle of wine? Too embarrassed to ask? Can't imagine why, I had 3 bottles left. Could it be "nggak enak"?

I can go on.

To spare myself these kinds of frustrations I've been getting by without domestic help. My friends seem bewildered that I prefer to clean and drive myself. Know what I tell them? "Lebih enak".

 

[SamR]

I think for driver and domestic help, I find that talking to them about it works best. Don't confront them, just casually mention it in a conversation and see what happens. Nothing's been stolen but we've been able to find out that on one occasion the TV remote that has been missing for nearly a year has most likely been accidentally thrown in with the rubbish and her favorite mug shattered after it was bumped off the table. My wife's very good at this but at the same time our domestic help are quite honest.

But regarding "nggak enak" in general, I think it's a two way street. Because most people, whether consciously or not, test rather than invade boundaries. Not long ago, the guys who do the kebersihan in the complex I live in chose the front of my place as the place where they want to smoke their cigarettes. At first I thought "Yeah they're tired, they just want to relax". But then I realized they started coming back more and more and there were clothes that were starting to smell like cigarette smoke.

At that point, I decided to politely tell them to smoke somewhere else and they were still new enough to the habit to move along. If I'd allowed them another month to practice their new habit before speaking up and they'd become comfortable, they would've seen me as the nuisance.

 

[Dharma Police]

I think for driver and domestic help, I find that talking to them about it works best. Don't confront them, just casually mention it in a conversation and see what happens. Nothing's been stolen but we've been able to find out that on one occasion the TV remote that has been missing for nearly a year has most likely been accidentally thrown in with the rubbish and her favorite mug shattered after it was bumped off the table. My wife's very good at this but at the same time our domestic help are quite honest.

But regarding "nggak enak" in general, I think it's a two way street. Because most people, whether consciously or not, test rather than invade boundaries. Not long ago, the guys who do the kebersihan in the complex I live in chose the front of my place as the place where they want to smoke their cigarettes. At first I thought "Yeah they're tired, they just want to relax". But then I realized they started coming back more and more and there were clothes that were starting to smell like cigarette smoke.

At that point, I decided to politely tell them to smoke somewhere else and they were still new enough to the habit to move along. If I'd allowed them another month to practice their new habit before speaking up and they'd become comfortable, they would've seen me as the nuisance.

It's only in the last few months that I decided that it's not worth having a maid or driver anymore. I agree, diplomacy goes a long way - but lately I feel like it's all in vain.

Yes, I can get particular about my house being in order, but is it unreasonable to expect sincerity and accountability? The issue goes far beyond decorum. My family's safety is on the line at times. When it comes to my kids, I'm not going to hope it one day clicks and rational precautions are followed - not when hot oil, gas leaks, slippery floors etc are involved.

As far as friends and colleagues, it's certainly in my best interest to find an equilibrium with cultural differences. I have to live here after all. But I'll be damned if I have to come home and worry about any of this. Besides, I actually enjoy driving. Cleaning and laundry? I do a better job anyway.

 

[HappyMan]

I still don't really understand about "face", even having lived here these many years. But, I think that is what a lot of it comes down to. People don't like confrontation, especially ones where they will feel a sense of embarrassment. Obviously, no one likes that, in any culture, but I think that the enforced social structures here make it more of a problem somehow... This is particularly baffling in a work setting. I've know employees to grin and bear it when their boss made quite insulting jokes about them in public, but stubbornly refuse to make any effort to explain why/acknowledge that they screwed up an account. My mind works in the exact opposite fashion.

It can be a huge problem for me, as I like to think of myself as forgiving and generous (as do we all), but I can't generously forgive someone who refuses to acknowledge the events that need forgiving (all right, I'm not that generous). When my employee of three months wants to borrow a month of wages, but refuses to give me any clue why (I'd accept "family reasons"), and then seems surprised/upset when I turn him down... I just wonder what he thought would happen. I kinda understand that explaining personal stuff to your boss is "nggak enak", but I feel the same way about opening my wallet without a reason.

Honestly though, I was never very good at "maintaining dignity" and fulfilling social expectations in the States, either. It just grates to have someone dictate my behavior and try to dictate my feelings ("this should shame you", "this should make you feel proud") without some objective reason. No, all the other men doing it is not an objective reason for me to cut my hair more often. Yeah... I'm rambling because I just don't really understand how the whole/why the whole social thing works in either country.

 

[fastpitch17]

I guess I am a failure when it comes to this saving face stuff. I say what's on my mind and to whomever it may be directed at. My pet peeve. Tukans who come to do some work and have no tools and expect to to supply them. If hired off the street to do some things for clean up, I don't mind. If have a business with printed receipts and want to be all that, you get an ear full if you don't have your own tools. Once they know you have a nice assortment if tools they don't seem to mind to stop by and ask to borrow some to do a job someplace else. They get run off then.

 

[Dharma Police]

I still don't really understand about "face", even having lived here these many years. But, I think that is what a lot of it comes down to. People don't like confrontation, especially ones where they will feel a sense of embarrassment. Obviously, no one likes that, in any culture, but I think that the enforced social structures here make it more of a problem somehow... This is particularly baffling in a work setting. I've know employees to grin and bear it when their boss made quite insulting jokes about them in public, but stubbornly refuse to make any effort to explain why/acknowledge that they screwed up an account. My mind works in the exact opposite fashion.

It can be a huge problem for me, as I like to think of myself as forgiving and generous (as do we all), but I can't generously forgive someone who refuses to acknowledge the events that need forgiving (all right, I'm not that generous). When my employee of three months wants to borrow a month of wages, but refuses to give me any clue why (I'd accept "family reasons"), and then seems surprised/upset when I turn him down... I just wonder what he thought would happen. I kinda understand that explaining personal stuff to your boss is "nggak enak", but I feel the same way about opening my wallet without a reason.

Honestly though, I was never very good at "maintaining dignity" and fulfilling social expectations in the States, either. It just grates to have someone dictate my behavior and try to dictate my feelings ("this should shame you", "this should make you feel proud") without some objective reason. No, all the other men doing it is not an objective reason for me to cut my hair more often. Yeah... I'm rambling because I just don't really understand how the whole/why the whole social thing works in either country.

In East Asian countries, it means not losing your composure. When correcting an error or violation, for example. In Japan and Korea they have a phrase similar to "Take it easy" in that it's common to say, but it literally means "Calm yourself" or "Keep it together". People, and by extension their community, won't respect them if they fly off the handle, yelling at someone just because they can.

It goes too far here though. You're expected to not say anything at all, and pretend it doesn't bother you. I've watched some belligerent drunk insult another man's girlfriend in mixed company, and the boyfriend stayed silent. It was the kind of insult that crossed a major line. It made me lose respect for him but apparently he's Joe Cool to others. What I don't get is how this social "grace" also means you can do whatever you want and conveniently not fess up to it, or apologize for it.

Of course saving face has more layers, but social and work interactions (how we get along and how you project yourself) is a big part of it.

 

[nd_eric_77]

In East Asian countries, it means not losing your composure. When correcting an error or violation, for example. In Japan and Korea they have a phrase similar to "Take it easy" in that it's common to say, but it literally means "Calm yourself" or "Keep it together". People, and by extension their community, won't respect them if they fly off the handle, yelling at someone just because they can.

It goes too far here though. You're expected to not say anything at all, and pretend it doesn't bother you. I've watched some belligerent drunk insult another man's girlfriend in mixed company, and the boyfriend stayed silent. It was the kind of insult that crossed a major line. It made me lose respect for him but apparently he's Joe Cool to others. What I don't get is how this social "grace" also means you can do whatever you want and conveniently not fess up to it, or apologize for it.

Of course saving face has more layers, but social and work interactions (how we get along and how you project yourself) is a big part of it.

The confusing part is that certain ethnic groups kind of get a pass for being overly expressive. It seems to be just an understood societal assumption that people from those marga are going to blow their lids every so often. And no, this is not a reference to Tionghua; let's just say that the people whom I have known to get such a "pass" have come from the Medan area. Note to mods: please let me know if I need to edit / delete this comment. This entire thread is full of generalizations, but I do not want to cross a line.

 

[ChrisTex]

I was once sent a private message in a meeting from someone asking me to calm down over a particular issue which I was being rather blunt. I have also noticed how a number of coworkers are won't speak up/question anything. These same people tend to send a private WA message asking a question which was already explained a few messages up. One meeting I was in, I was the only person questioning/arguing something that was completely stupid and made no sense. The other coworkers-'Yes Mr.' 'Okay Mr' to the person leading the meeting. I was ready to quit on the spot.

 

[nd_eric_77]

I was once sent a private message in a meeting from someone asking me to calm down over a particular issue which I was being rather blunt. I have also noticed how a number of coworkers are won't speak up/question anything. These same people tend to send a private WA message asking a question which was already explained a few messages up. One meeting I was in, I was the only person questioning/arguing something that was completely stupid and made no sense. The other coworkers-'Yes Mr.' 'Okay Mr' to the person leading the meeting. I was ready to quit on the spot.

This ties in with a side effect of "nggak enak"... the passive-aggressive move of agreeing with someone in public, but then circling back afterward (often through an intermediary) and trying to weasel out of the plans with which one publicly agreed. Back when I used to partner with a "tempat les", a class of 6 students (18 year olds who were preparing for uni) would agree with a schedule, but then 4 days later, 2 of them would have their parents call my partner to say why the schedule was unacceptable. God forbid we have an honest conversation out in the open!

 

[Dharma Police]

The confusing part is that certain ethnic groups kind of get a pass for being overly expressive. It seems to be just an understood societal assumption that people from those marga are going to blow their lids every so often. And no, this is not a reference to Tionghua; let's just say that the people whom I have known to get such a "pass" have come from the Medan area. Note to mods: please let me know if I need to edit / delete this comment. This entire thread is full of generalizations, but I do not want to cross a line.

My "Top 5" grievances was culled from my experience in Jakarta, Bogor, Semarang, and Yogya. Of course there are exceptions, but it's widely practiced.

In the US, there's a generalization that Asians can't drive. As an Asian I can definitely see why this is a stereotype. It's not because we suck at driving, we simply don't give a crap. Imagine an Indonesian person driving in the States. They just might go in reverse if they miss their highway exit

 

[Hawk256]

In the US, there's a generalization that Asians can't drive. As an Asian I can definitely see why this is a stereotype. It's not because we suck at driving, we simply don't give a crap. Imagine an Indonesian person driving in the States. They just might go in reverse if they miss their highway exit

My wife is a very skilled driver (in Indonesia) but still scares the crap out of me. She would lose her license in one day in the States, if she ever made it to the road that is. I have serious doubts about making it out of the parking lot.

 

[HappyMan]

My wife is a very skilled driver (in Indonesia) but still scares the crap out of me. She would lose her license in one day in the States, if she ever made it to the road that is. I have serious doubts about making it out of the parking lot.

I'm not sure how long I would last back there, either. Last time I went back, 8 years ago (?), I found myself driving on the wrong side of the road. Since than I've become quite used to passing on solid lines and forgotten the existence of speedometers.

The worst one would probably be the casual way ai treat pedestrians. Driving through a crosswalk while someone is using it (even on the other side of the road) is a serious offence there, but there are so many people just hanging out in the street here that my awareness of them has become similar to that for other vehicles, "if they are not going to intersect my path, they do not exist".

It would almost be like learning to drive again.

 

[Dharma Police]

Where do you live now @HappyMan?

 

[Banana72]

In the US, there's a generalization that Asians can't drive. As an Asian I can definitely see why this is a stereotype. It's not because we suck at driving, we simply don't give a crap. Imagine an Indonesian person driving in the States. They just might go in reverse if they miss their highway exit

I remember many years ago when I was still living in the US, my buddy moved to my city temporarily to take some courses. One day I helped him learn to drive before getting his license....and while driving he kept the car so close to the middle of the road, a bit too close for my comfort (seeing how close he is to the oncoming/opposite traffic). I asked him, hey how come you drive like that, you're gonna fail this test! He answered..bad habit, in Indonesia if you drive 'too nicely' people may drive past you...

It has been a while, but i remember he managed to pass and got his license though.

 

[Banana72]

I remember the first time I got here back in 2011...first few months I felt trapped since I couldn't go anywhere after 5 (didn't have a driver yet, no grab, didn't know the 'new jakarta' vs my Jakarta in the 90s, etc. When the first ramadhan came around, wife (at that time still dating) pushed me to drive everyday to get used to the traffic, etc. That made a huge difference! I'd say it took me about a year+ to really feel pretty okay driving around with relatively manageable stress.

If I'm back in the US, I take 2-3 days of not driving and then after picking up my rental car, usually I just drive around the neighborhood, nearby grocery stores to readjust my mindset for a couple hours then I'm good to go.

 

[SamR]

Well, since this has become a driving thread...

My pet peeve on the road has got to be the flashing of high beams. For every 10 vehicles I encounter that use high beams, probably only one or two use it to say “I’m here, be careful with your driving”.

The remainder flash high beams to as a way of saying “Get the hell out of their way, I’m coming through.”

 

[HappyMan]

Where do you live now @HappyMan?

Northern Bandung. Used to drive to Jakarta every week. Now, I mostly drive from town out into the sticks, but village people are just as crazy about standing in the middle of the street for extended periods of time. Shit used to to terrify me (worried I'd hit someone), but now I've gotten used to it.

Going out towards Subang from here, the roads are mostly solid center lined (as they should be with all the curves), but following a truck full of sand all the way up a mountain makes my 45 minute drive take 2 hours. So, I just know that there may come a day when I meet another vehicle coming around the curve on the wrong side of the road, doing the same stupid shit I am.

 

[Supir Angkot]

Ha ha can confirm, as a random FOB bule ever said that the biggest culture shock in Indonesia is not hot spicy food, cebok and using toilet paper as table napkins in warung or even the loud noises from masajid in the wee hours of the morning.
No, the biggest culture shock is indeed driving and the stereo type of worst driver in Indonesia are the notorious emak emak motorcyclists.
I was warming my angkot up in my boss driveway and an angsty emak emak motorcyclist broadsided me.

 

[waarmstrong]

My wife, a Jakarta native, does most of the driving when we are on a home visit in Jaktim. She is also quite comfortable driving in the Midwestern USA and has no problem at all with the norms and expectations in both setting. I certainly acknowledge that there are cultural differences that manifest themselves in driving etiquette, but to imply that Indonesians are culturally hidebound and unable or unwilling to adapt strikes me as a stereotypical generalization and a bit racist.

 

[Balifrog]

Have been driving in Cairo, Saudi, Bangkok, South Korea.
Always adapted easily to the local style, and returned easily to "disciplined" driving when in France or the rest of Europe.
I am happily without a car (and without driving) since my 8 y in HKG (public transport is outstanding, taxis plenty), and now 4 years in Bali (use Grab or Bleu Bird).