Long overstay 3years+ in Indonesia

Hamonajiwa

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Hi everyone, i know about this forum 3 days ago when i find some advise about long overstay. sorry my English is not good enough. I need advice. I am girl from Vietnam(21 years old) and I was overstay in Indonesia for 3 year ( exactly I came here at SEP 2016). After I had fight with my mom, I leave home and come here to meet my boyfriend (we know each other from facebook), at that time I just 18 yeahs old and with me it is the first trip. After meet him, we had a small trip around Jakarta before come back his home. And after I came his home, I never go out again( because he said that I will be jail if the police find out me). At that time, my passport was overstay for 3 months and was damaged the stamp (so I really fear and do anything bf tall me)...i still live with him until now, I miss my family and want to come back Vietnam.

but unlucky, he will break up with me if I choose leave(i had some talk with him, ask him about if I tell my family about my situation, I was 3 years not call back for them and I really miss them. Then he said he will break up with me if I try to tell my family then kick out me from Home! I was so much fear because at there I don't know anyone and don't have money to go out). but after 3 years we live together and saw what he will do if I try to connect my family make me disappointed and choose I need leave that guy.

-I use a secret way and connected with my family and now wait they come here(maybe need 1 month or more). My plan is I will go with mom after she come to take me out, then I will go to the embassy to replace my passport (it was damaged the stamp) then go to the immigration office (KaIm kelas 1 kusus) to report myself. But problem is my boyfriend will not be with me to come KaIm (he don't want have big trouble with new law about WNI will be jail if help WNA overstay) and I don't want give him trouble too. I just hope that the immigration will let me go soon as soon even if my name in blacklist.

-I need some advice . I had read many old post about this case and know in this forum atlantis and marcus are who have knowledge about this. Hope they can reply me.
- I don't have any things can explain how I managed financially ( because my bf is people do it). I am always stay at home. And if I go to KaIm and tell the truth, they maybe will detain me and find him. It will take more long time because my boyfriend said that when my family come here to meet me, he will leave too(or maybe run away?!?)
....i so so confused.
I had made this post in living in Indonesia forum and have some advice. And one of it is take my family stay away from this. I don't know the reason. Because all my hope and who can help me now is my family. I need they support for me but someone advice me don't get my family go with me to KaIm
 

Hunabku

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Agree with Helpful Herbert,,, you'd better going to Vietnam embassy asap. Currently Indonesian government is under discussion to release the regulation about unmarried spouse who live together, known as kumpul kebo. Once that release that would give you more trouble if you haven't married with your bf.
 

Hamonajiwa

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Thank you guys for reply me. I still wait my family come here( because some even and they can't leave now). So in time waiting for them, I try to find some information can support for me when I go to KaIm.
I have some questions, hope someone can give advice.
  • I should go to KaIm alone with a ticket return home and some money OR I should go to KaIm with family (1 person) so at least still have someone know where I will be detain and how long to help me buy some food or connect to embassy to help. ( because @Marcus - in living Indo forum was suggested me go alone, but I don't know the reason why I can't go with family)
  • how long I should get there (KaIm) before the plane take off?
 

Hunabku

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The penalty of overstay is Rp1mill/day now dear. You'd better go to your embassy and seek legal advice from there to help you.
 

snpark

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The penalty of overstay is Rp1mill/day now dear. You'd better go to your embassy and seek legal advice from there to help you.
That's true but there is a maximum I think 60jt 60 days after that it's deported and black list
 

atlantis

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And how much the cost of "backdoor" to solve that situation without being blacklisted?
I believe Hamonajiwa just want to be back home (VietNam) and leave permanently Indonesia. Being blacklisted and the procedure to remove blacklisting is probably the least of her concern.
 

atlantis

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That's true but there is a maximum I think 60jt 60 days after that it's deported and black list
If one overstays a maximum of 60 days, one is liable to a fine which amount is fixed by the statute being current at the time the overstay is settled. At the moment, this amount is Rp 1 jt per day therefore the maximum fine is indeed Rp 60 jt.
If an overstayer is unable to settle the fine OR if the overstay is superior to 60 days then fine is irrelevant. The sanction is blacklisting and deportation. Deportation requires that the overstayer is able to finance his/her way out of Indonesia and has a valid travel document. Until these two conditions are met, Imigrasi must detain the overstayer (can be in a ruten, a rutan or house arrest)and they can do so up to 10 (ten) years.
ADDIT: please do not conclude that Imigrasi can retain someone for up to 10 vears with no valid reasons or for purpose of investigation. Investigation is time framed and the only reasons for a detainee to be retained up to 10 years is in case s/he can't get a valid travel document or has no funds to pay for a ticket (I was aware of a South African who stayed in custody over 3 years if I remember well due to the lack of fund for a ticket)
 

atlantis

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atlantis

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At that time, my passport was overstay for 3 months and was damaged the stamp (so I really fear and do anything bf tall me)...
Can you clarify this. What stamp are you talking about? Is it a vietnamese stamp in the passport which is damaged or the Indonesian Immigration stamp? If the latter, how did the stamp get damaged? Was that in an attempt to tamper with (ex: as in trying to erase the entry date or modify it...etc)?
Is your passport still valid?

but unlucky, he will break up with me if I choose leave(i had some talk with him, ask him about if I tell my family about my situation, I was 3 years not call back for them and I really miss them. Then he said he will break up with me if I try to tell my family then kick out me from Home! I was so much fear because at there I don't know anyone and don't have money to go out). but after 3 years we live together and saw what he will do if I try to connect my family make me disappointed and choose I need leave that guy.
This guy is a fool and an a******e. He is definitely the last person you should seek or hear advise from.

And one of it is take my family stay away from this. I don't know the reason. Because all my hope and who can help me now is my family. I need they support for me but someone advice me don't get my family go with me to KaIm
Whoever gave you this advise in not wise imho. I would even say that it is foolish.

At the moment you need emotional, psychological and financial support up to the full resolution of your problem and this can only come from someone you can fully trust and in this case there is only a family member who seem to be able to fit the role.

There are no reasons which make sense for not having a family member going with you to Imigrasi. They can not detain them nor hassle them.

A staff of the embassy could also come with you, but having assisted vietnamese fishermen in troubles with Imigrasi in my region in the past I know as a fact that the vietnamese embassy is not among the most supportive of its citizens when they are in troubles.

I don't know where you got this advise of not involving your family but I suspect that you have received this advise from someone who has no knowledge of the procedure or, perhaps just a glimpse of it through some reading, but definitely this person has never approached or assisted someone who is detained in a RuTen.

You MUST have someone you can trust and who can support you from the time you may be detained till the time you fly out, not a random Indonesian who just accompany you and not truly care or is ready to give money for your food and needs (like soap, towel...etc) during the time of detention. What the heck the person who advise you think detention is? A disneyland trip? It ain't, believe me.

Detention is not easy nor comfortable, both physically and emotionally, nor it is up to the standard of what detention may be in some more developed countries. You need someone who can show up everyday if needed to apply a little pressure so that the case is resolved as quickly as possible, someone you can talk with during the allowed time of visit, someone who can give a bit of money so that you can get proper food, or just food... etc. Who better than a member of your family can do that? If mom can come to Indonesia, get her to come and help you.
 

atlantis

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Basically my advises are:
  1. Make sure you have a valid vietnamese travel document.
  2. Seek advise from the vietnamese embassy , see if they can have a translator assisting you if you don't speak good enough bahasa Indonesia to answer questions and cooperate to speed up the immigration procedure.
  3. If you can, have someone you fully trust (ie 1 or more family member) accompanying you and supporting you during the whole length of the procedure.
  4. Bring with you your luggage and if possible sweets or food, a pillow or any thing helping you to be as comfortable as possible in case your case requires detention.
  5. Have a ticket ready to fly out the day you go to Imigrasi. Make sure the ticket is modifiable and/or refundable in case they decide to detain you. With such ticket you will be able to fly out at a different date if necessary.
  6. Tell the truth and all the truth. Don't give a thought about "protecting" your boy friend if it can make the things worse for you. Any way he doesn't risk much, save for being asked for a donation to the Good People of Imigrasi for his role in this mess. Probably less than the price you will have to fork to pay your airline ticket back home. Anyway the guy has to man up and take his responsibility. If you are here it is because of your decision, but also because of HIS.
  7. Be courteous and polite, don't show anger nor fear. It's no big deal. It isn't a crime but an administrative violation.
  8. Don't overthink the law about Indonesian being possibly jailed for helping an overstayer. It is indeed the law, but since 2011, the only cases where people have been charged and prosecuted are cases involving human rights violations or important state loses. It is not your or your boyfriend's case.
 

Hamonajiwa

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Thank you so much @aliantis. Your advice is what I really need now.
  • firstly, my passport was damaged the stamp: both of stamp Vietnam and Indonesian. Exactly The page with the stamp has been blacked out by Coffee. But by some way luckily my family still keep the foto of my passport when it still okay and can see the stamp ( at that time I fear they worry for me about some guy steal me and sell to China, so I take a foot passport to tell them I am OK). My passport Vail untill 2025.
  • I plan go with mom to KaIm ( after take Vail travel documents in embassy). Talk with the immigration the truth with 2 ticket return home (for me and her) and with some money if they open ''a window solution''. Exactly all members of my family (5 person) will come here, but maybe I should go with only mom or with mom and dad to get there.
  • and about him ( boyfriend) I don't want meet him again after my family come here. My family was advised me leave fast as possible when they are here. They fear that guy will hurt me after know the news that my family know all about him. And I sure him will run away from this. But problem is someone advice me need a witness (an Indonesian) to go with me to KaIm. Do I need that? I don't think he will go with me in this case.
 

atlantis

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firstly, my passport was damaged the stamp: both of stamp Vietnam and Indonesian. Exactly The page with the stamp has been blacked out by Coffee. But by some way luckily my family still keep the foto of my passport when it still okay and can see the stamp ( at that time I fear they worry for me about some guy steal me and sell to China, so I take a foot passport to tell them I am OK). My passport Vail untill 2025.
Ok, I see. It's much better than what I was fearing. First get a new passport. Be aware than vietnamese officials may not be happy with the fact that your passport has been messed up with coffee. You are asian and are certainly aware that respect to officials is important and it extends to taking good care of any official documents. Anyway the most you would get from them is a well deserved scolding.

I plan go with mom to KaIm ( after take Vail travel documents in embassy). Talk with the immigration the truth with 2 ticket return home (for me and her) and with some money if they open ''a window solution''. Exactly all members of my family (5 person) will come here, but maybe I should go with only mom or with mom and dad to get there.
Mom AND Dad is a good idea, or I would say DAD and Mom. Remember you live in a country where the parental authority and figure of respect and reference is the father more than the mother. Having your dad coming with you is definitely a plus.

Most often when dealing with Imigrasi, foreigners focus on legal details, chapter and verses of law...etc without understanding that, if it is important, another thing is important when dealing with Indonesians: the human factor. Don't forget that people you will face are mothers and fathers before being immigration officers and they will judge your case as much as through their personal feelings than through the book of laws. One thing that may irk them is the fact that you had a fight with your mom and perhaps ran away to Indonesia without parental consent. As parents themselves they may not see it kindly so definitely having your family supporting you, notably your father, will do good to you in their eyes. The way the see you is about as important as what you have done, if not more important. This is why I was saying that the advise you received of letting your family out of the picture is just a stupid and (culturally) ignorant one.
If your parents are there with you they will naturally show signs of worryness and this may well talk to them, perhaps even better than what you call a "window of solution" .
For your information, many cases of overstay I am aware of have been settled without "window of solution". Again, show respect, talk about your regret and shame of having put yourself in this mess and your desire to be a good daughter and live alongside pop and mom. Don't talk about money. Go with the flow.

But problem is someone advice me need a witness (an Indonesian) to go with me to KaIm. Do I need that? I don't think he will go with me in this case.
Ohhh Jayzus Krist! Where on earth are you fishing your advises? You don't need any Indonesian witness. If Imigrasi want to investigate they won't rely on a random guy coming from nowhere telling them how much of a good girl you are. They will go on the field and start to interview your boyfriend with or without his consent. Just say your part of the story, give the contact details of those involved and that's it. Imigrasi doesn't need a random guy to come telling them "she's cool" "Oh? she's cool? Good, put her in the plane". It doesn't work like that. If they decide to investigate, they will go for the boyfriend himself as a start.
 

Hamonajiwa

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Thank you so much for following my story and those helpful tips.
Now I have a clearer plan from your advice.
- I checked ticket return Vietnam from Jakarta (CGK airport) and time is 14.40.
-Do I need to get there (KaIm kelas 1 khusus) a day before or not? Is it okay if I go to there at 8.00am at the same day of ticket?
===Thank you===
 

Hamonajiwa

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Ohhh Jayzus Krist! Where on earth are you fishing your advises? You don't need any Indonesian witness.
Well, I try find information long overstay in Google and find out "living in Indonesia forum". At there have some stories about overstay but was so long time (from 2008-2011-2016)...and latest Post from member @Marcus, he make a topic overstaying almost 2 years (http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.org/forum/general/laws-visas-money-matters-and-documents/858279-overstaying-almost-2-years) and give some information and advice and I try to ask him. And his advice make me feel so confused ( about let family stay away from this, just stay in Vietnam and buy ticket for me and I should go alone to KaIm or who I need is a witness-an indonesian. I don't know the reason but he seems don't want my family come here and want I just do it myself. Really I don't want face this mess alone, at there I don't know anyone else and language not good enough) although still thank him for answer me.
Then another @scouser59 at there was introduced me to come here this forum. Thank so much @scouser59.
Well I feel better now, at least I had a clearer plan. Again thank you @alantis ?
 
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atlantis

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(http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.org/forum/general/laws-visas-money-matters-and-documents/858279-overstaying-almost-2-years) and give some information and advice and I try to ask him. And his advice make me feel so confused ( about let family stay away from this, just stay in Vietnam and buy ticket for me and I should go alone to KaIm or who I need is a witness-an indonesian) although still thank him for answer me.
Oh ok... I see. I can't check your link unfortunately. I am using my office IP at the moment and it seems that the "admin" there IP banned it (or perhaps it's just a bug... no it can't... there's no bug there... never...).

Any time (fortunately rarely) I want to check LIIF I need to use a VPN which most of the time isn't worth the hassle (unless if I look for a maid, commercial for the latest whitening cream, the phone number of a dubious visa agent or a baby sitter).

This is strange from Marcus that/if he gave you this type of advises. Perhaps he has misunderstood the issues? But then, if it comes from him, I guessed it right in a previous post saying that the advise must have come from someone who may have theoretical knowledge but no practical one.

Then another @scouser59 at there was introduced me to come here this forum. Thank so much @scouser59.
Well I feel better now, at least I had a clearer plan. Again thank you @alantis ?
So... all credit for you feeling better goes to @scouser59. Thank you for that Scouser59. (y)
 

jstar

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This is strange from Marcus that/if he gave you this type of advises. Perhaps he has misunderstood the issues? But then, if it comes from him, I guessed it right in a previous post saying that the advise must have come from someone who may have theoretical knowledge but no practical one.

(a)

(b)

(c) You will be in the Immigration "jail" , you do not need anybody to support you . Who you really need is somebody (an Indonesian) who can tell Immigration that you did not work and did not do anything illegal , so Immigration can deport you quicker .
Again , I suggest your family stay away from this , they just need to buy & send you the ticket back to your country .

(d)

Last edited by marcus; 1 day ago.
 

atlantis

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Huh? @jstar what is it? A copy paste of LIIF link?

"you do not need anybody to support you" ??????????? Really? Marcus wrote that? Has he ever seen a RuTen? Seen a cell? Does he think they serve gourmet three course meal with an Equil bottle of sparkling water there?
 

atlantis

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The second part of the paragraph is no better. I see the picture "Suer pak bos! she's good girl, did nothing bad. Now let's do a group hug in the kantor imigrasi and let's give her a boarding pass".

Unfortunately reality is a bit more complex that just having a guy popping up and telling Imigrasi that all is fine. Even if it's just an administrative violation, IF they feel the need to investigate, they won't be happy just with "somebody (an Indonesian) who can tell Immigration that (she) did not work and did not do anything illegal , so Immigration can deport (her) quicker."
 

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