Laws against entering someones house?

[MamangDudul]

Hi everyone,

to make it short, i had a little problem with my neighbor. No physical stuff, he was just angry about our renovation noises came into our house and made quite a scene.

Are there any laws for illegal house entering or something like that?
Cause on top of entering without my permission he also made threats.

And it's not like he couldn't find us, he could see us well from being outside of the house, so he had no reason to step further than my front door.

Ps: i don't plan to report him now. I just want to be prepared and know if there are any kind of laws for this situation.
I also know this is not a place for legal consultation, but maybe someone knows something.

 

[paulinenindhya]

I don't know how the regulation now.
but IMO
when we want to renovate, especially it's quite big enough, we should get some permission letter to RT/RW so neighbors won't have any other option but to give in.
But many times (for example my next door is a convenient store) we settled it by kinship sort of things.. I asked them politely to not making any big noise after 9 pm and all....

of course it's different people different ways...
sending him some earplug might help probably...

if you insist try with pasal 335 KUHP
but still you have to deal with the authority in Indonesia... which... will be unworthy

 

[MamangDudul]

I don't know how the regulation now.
but IMO
when we want to renovate, especially it's quite big enough, we should get some permission letter to RT/RW so neighbors won't have any other option but to give in.
But many times (for example my next door is a convenient store) we settled it by kinship sort of things.. I asked them politely to not making any big noise after 9 pm and all....

of course it's different people different ways...
sending him some earplug might help probably...

if you insist try with pasal 335 KUHP
but still you have to deal with the authority in Indonesia... which... will be unworthy

Thanks for your answer. We already renovate for several months and have all the permissions from the BPL and so on.

We have to rush a bit to be finished before Xmas cause now we live at my mother in laws house and it is literally falling apart step by step. It becomes impossible to continue living there.

The case was that we had to drill 3 more holes to attach a sink. It was around 7:30. Yeah, he just came into my house barking like a dog threatening my wife if something happens to his pregnant wife.
All the workers and the kontraktor were watching his behavior.
Of course I talked back(but didn't use bad words) I just said don't come to my house and just call the police if u think u have a case.
He didn't dare to touch anyone but he was very emotional. I also don't want to have any trouble with the law even though everyone was already in the mood to throw some fists.

He made more stress to his wife than we ever could.

Anyway he is a Notaris and he should be familiar with laws. So I just want to have something in my hand to show what kind of law he is breaking if it happens again.

I know Batak people are famous for being loud and so on, but he was definitely crossing a line.

And yeah, I have no interest in going to the authorities, since we also don't have any real evidence except our workers who witnessed it.

Just an "educated" man like him should know he can't come to my house like that.

Ps: actually he is "just" a notaris for house documents and so on, not a lawyer or something.

He said all kind of things, he wants the check if Iam illegal in Indonesia and check my house documents and so on.. I wonder who will give him my documents. Anyway, I wasn't rude and just said be my guest and do what you have to do if u think u have a case here.

 

[snpark]

Swallow your pride and at the weekend go to his house with a peace offering, food, whisky, whatever something and say sorry for the inconvenience and shouting last week, you were stressed with istriku, corona, builders etc
Job done, everyone happy

 

[gemima]

Swallow your pride and at the weekend go to his house with a peace offering, food, whisky, whatever something and say sorry for the inconvenience and shouting last week, you were stressed with istriku, corona, builders etc
Job done, everyone happy

Yeah - you really don't want to start off on a bad foot with the neighbors. If you've been renovating for months and just increased the workload it could be driving him (and his household) absolutely nuts. Not that it condones his behavior but it shows it hasn't come out of nothing. Arguing with him over the law is a waste of time. Better to build a good relationship going forward.

 

[MamangDudul]

Swallow your pride and at the weekend go to his house with a peace offering, food, whisky, whatever something and say sorry for the inconvenience and shouting last week, you were stressed with istriku, corona, builders etc
Job done, everyone happy

Hi,

yes usually this is a good advice and it often works. Just this is a special case, from the beginning he already didn't like us. Maybe because we didn't do the documents with him. Which was not my fault, cause the former owner didn't really tell us about him.

The Kompleks here is relatively small and even without living here we already have very good relationships with the other people and neighbors here. Our daughter even plays at other peoples homes. Just he is the only who is totally not friendly and Mr. Super Correct.

I think he is the one who can't swallow his pride.
I mean, I can say anything on internet but Iam really a very easy person and friendly with everyone who is friendly to me. Like I said, I also don't plan to let the situation escalate or try to pick a fight. I only don't want him to think he can do what he wants, that's why I asked about the laws if it really escalates.
Although yesterday was the last time and one of the only times we worked that late.

 

[MamangDudul]

Yeah - you really don't want to start off on a bad foot with the neighbors. If you've been renovating for months and just increased the workload it could be driving him (and his household) absolutely nuts. Not that it condones his behavior but it shows it hasn't come out of nothing. Arguing with him over the law is a waste of time. Better to build a good relationship going forward.

I think it is too late for that, I only don't want him to feel that he can come to my house in that kind of way. Even the immigration asks for permisson.

And the drilling was only a few times. Most of times it was raining so we couldn't even move forward. He is just the kind of person who wants to find a problem and acts like a big shot although he doesn't even knows us.

Like I said above we have a good relationship to everyone except him. The neighbors on the other side also invited us and all. No one is like that except him.

Ps: i don't plan to argue with him about laws. Just wanna know the laws..maybe I came across wrong.

 

[harryopal1]

As others have said a more conciliatory approach might help. Responding with assertions about your rights may not ease the situation. As SNpark has suggested making it clear that you see and understand why he is upset might help. If things calm down perhaps you can explain what further work needs to be done and seek a response from him as to when best to do this. Knowing your theoretical rights might be comforting but not the kind of situation to be in with any kind of court case. I recall a story here in Bali of a Bule being involved in an accident with an injury to the other party. While the facts clearly showed it was not the fault of the Bule the court declared that if he had not come to Bali the accident would never have happened so therefore it was his fault.

That said there are some people who seem to delight in being intractable. There is a great 1977 film called The Duellists based on a true story of Hussar officers who fought innumerable duels across many years. Harvey Keitel played the part of the officer with whom it was impossible to reason. You might well identify with the other officer continually being forced to duel.

A very stressful situation for you. I hope it settles down as I can imagine this being hard to put aside.

 

[Bad_azz]

I think he could be feeling a little threatened by you too , this could be compounding his angst.
As a notaris in the area he would have some elevated social standing - maybe even feeling a bit like top dog if its a rural area.
All of a sudden there is a 'bule' on the playing field, just by existing there you have undermined his status so find a way to neutralise that negativity & it won't be by making sweeping actions & donating generous gifts, LOL, basically its a pissing contest, let him (figuratively) piss on you & show you know your place below him ...
its easy enough women have been doing it for centuries.

 

[MamangDudul]

As others have said a more conciliatory approach might help. Responding with assertions about your rights may not ease the situation. As SNpark has suggested making it clear that you see and understand why he is upset might help. If things calm down perhaps you can explain what further work needs to be done and seek a response from him as to when best to do this. Knowing your theoretical rights might be comforting but not the kind of situation to be in with any kind of court case. I recall a story here in Bali of a Bule being involved in an accident with an injury to the other party. While the facts clearly showed it was not the fault of the Bule the court declared that if he had not come to Bali the accident would never have happened so therefore it was his fault.

That said there are some people who seem to delight in being intractable. There is a great 1977 film called The Duellists based on a true story of Hussar officers who fought innumerable duels across many years. Harvey Keitel played the part of the officer with whom it was impossible to reason. You might well with the other officer continually pushed into duelling.

A very stressful situation for you. I hope it settles down as I can imagine this being hard to put aside.

Hi,

I know that movie it is great. Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it. I only think we are already past that point.

Actually it is not as stressful as it seems. Even though he is our neighbor we don't see him that often and after xmas we will install a gate and teralis and so on (that was already planned before I even knew him) so the chance of him entering is pretty small and if, then it really is trespassing. Actually I don't see a lot of potential conflicts for the future. As I said, Iam actually a very easy going person and don't search for fights. Only if he does something like that again I will just let my wife call the police and record is behaviour so they can clear the situation. I don't even know for what he wants to sue me, for working late a few times and it is not even my house, it is my wifes (that doesn't make it better for me but just sayin, what case could he possibly have?).

Again, I don't plan to make any more trouble and just let things rest. I have no interest in being his friend and I guess he feels the same way.

I just will not let him enter like that again without consequences. Again, even the police or the immigration asks for permission and doesn't talk to me like that. From the beginning he didn't even try it the nice and friendly way.

But ya, I am positive that not much more will happen.

 

[MamangDudul]

I think he could be feeling a little threatened by you too , this could be compounding his angst.
As a notaris in the area he would have some elevated social standing - maybe even feeling a bit like top dog if its a rural area.
All of a sudden there is a 'bule' on the playing field, just by existing there you have undermined his status so find a way to neutralise that negativity & it won't be by making sweeping actions & donating generous gifts, LOL, basically its a pissing contest, let him (figuratively) piss on you & show you know your place below him ...
its easy enough women have been doing it for centuries.

Hi,

yes I totally get what you mean. Although it is a bigger city (Batam), I think a lot of what you said might be true.
I have no problem with just letting it rest without being his friend.
My only point is that I will not let him enter and threaten my wife again without consequences. Even if something I did was really wrong, (which could be talked about in a friendly way) threatening is a crime. I will record it and ask my wife to call the police.

Again, I don't plan on doing anything like that right now or cause more trouble. Just, some things are not acceptable. When I saw his emotions yesterday, he would probably kill me if I did the same in his house..

But ya..iam an easy person, he just never tried it in a friendly way.

Still, a lot of what you said is probably true.

 

[Nimbus]

Article 167 of the KUHP (Criminal Code) says that entering other people’s house, room, or enclosed yard by force and refusing to leave immediately upon request is punishable by a maximum of 9 months incarceration. He should know this law because it’s occasionally used against property squatters.

My advice is to talk to your local RT official and ask for mediation. Request Pak RT to invite both of you to his house to discuss the matter. Emphasize that you’re looking for an amicable solution. Say you’re sorry for the inconvenience, and you’d like to build a better relationship. Extend your hand, smile, and hope for the best.

If he chooses to be an asshole and berates you again, you can mention Pasal 167 KUHP and how he violated it. As a token of good will you’re not pursuing the matter, but if he does it again you’ll have no choice but to report him to the police.

 

[R Cameron]

better to make peace, even if it's not 'fair'.

as for your door, get a lock. or a dog.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

When I saw his emotions yesterday, he would probably kill me if I did the same in his house..

There is a certain look on an Indonesian's face where you can tell he is just about to lose control, and his brain is no longer operating as it should. I've only seen it a few times (mainly policemen) and my own instinct is to immediately back down, rather than try and prove a point, and risk something really bad happening. Of course if it was inside my own house and threatening a member of my family then that changes the equation - although from his side maybe he believes you're damaging his family and their health too.
Neighbourhood disputes happen in every country, and are normally noise-related. They often get so bad that they could only be resolved by one of the parties moving. The one in London between Jimmy Page and Robbie Williams is quite a famous one.

 

[MamangDudul]

Article 167 of the KUHP (Criminal Code) says that entering other people’s house, room, or enclosed yard by force and refusing to leave immediately upon request is punishable by a maximum of 9 months incarceration. He should know this law because it’s occasionally used against property squatters.

My advice is to talk to your local RT official and ask for mediation. Request Pak RT to invite both of you to his house to discuss the matter. Emphasize that you’re looking for an amicable solution. Say you’re sorry for the inconvenience, and you’d like to build a better relationship. Extend your hand, smile, and hope for the best.

If he chooses to be an asshole and berates you again, you can mention Pasal 167 KUHP and how he violated it. As a token of good will you’re not pursuing the matter, but if he does it again you’ll have no choice but to report him to the police.

Hello,

thanks for your advice, we have to talk to the Pak RT anyway after we move in on sunday. I don't have high hopes but let's see what happens. Also thanks a lot for posting this law!

 

[MamangDudul]

There is a certain look on an Indonesian's face where you can tell he is just about to lose control, and his brain is no longer operating as it should. I've only seen it a few times (mainly policemen) and my own instinct is to immediately back down, rather than try and prove a point, and risk something really bad happening. Of course if it was inside my own house and threatening a member of my family then that changes the equation - although from his side maybe he believes you're damaging his family and their health too.
Neighbourhood disputes happen in every country, and are normally noise-related. They often get so bad that they could only be resolved by one of the parties moving. The one in London between Jimmy Page and Robbie Williams is quite a famous one.

Hi,

yeah you are absolutely right about that look. It is also not in my nature to go to the point of no return, only in some situations I might loose my control. Luckily this was not one of them. It really seemed like his brain was loosing its functions. Anyway, he was surrounded by few man and he couldn't really try anything stupid except screaming and so on. I don't want to brag but I know how to defend myself only it wouldn't do me any good to start fights and it is not my usual nature. I also don't wanna get troubles for my next kitap or so because I have a police record.

Anyway, let's see what happens after we met with the Pak RT and so on. Today I also didn't hear anything from the neighbor so ya..lets see

I could understand him to some point, but not the way he acts.

 

[HappyMan]

Article 167 of the KUHP (Criminal Code) says that entering other people’s house, room, or enclosed yard by force and refusing to leave immediately upon request is punishable by a maximum of 9 months incarceration. He should know this law because it’s occasionally used against property squatters.

My advice is to talk to your local RT official and ask for mediation. Request Pak RT to invite both of you to his house to discuss the matter. Emphasize that you’re looking for an amicable solution. Say you’re sorry for the inconvenience, and you’d like to build a better relationship. Extend your hand, smile, and hope for the best.

If he chooses to be an asshole and berates you again, you can mention Pasal 167 KUHP and how he violated it. As a token of good will you’re not pursuing the matter, but if he does it again you’ll have no choice but to report him to the police.

Are you sure that 167 applies? My Indonesian isn't so great, but it seems like the entry has to be by force or coercion for the law to come into effect. If you leave your gate open it doesn't count. Please tell me if I am wrong.
Barangsiapa dengan melawan hak orang lain masuk dengan memaksa ke dalam rumah atau ruangan yang tertutup atau pekarangan, yang dipakai orang lain, atau sedang ada disitu dengan tidak ada haknya, tidak dengan segera pergi dari tempat itu atas permintaan orang yang berhak atau atas nama orang yang berhak dihukum penjara selama-lamanya 9 bulan, atau denda sebanyak-banyak Rp. 4.500,-


Edit: Never mind, I got it now. I missed, "atau sedang ada disitu dengan tidak ada haknya". So if the person is there with no right to be there, it also applies.

 

[Bad_azz]

better to make peace, even if it's not 'fair'.

as for your door, get a lock. or a dog.

Dogs! Perfect we only get polite visitors rattling on the gates then standing about 10 foot back because the dogs go nuts very noisily for visitors.
I have found them very effective for maintaining my particularly anti-social life

 

[Nimbus]

Are you sure that 167 applies? My Indonesian isn't so great, but it seems like the entry has to be by force or coercion for the law to come into effect. If you leave your gate open it doesn't count. Please tell me if I am wrong.
Barangsiapa dengan melawan hak orang lain masuk dengan memaksa ke dalam rumah atau ruangan yang tertutup atau pekarangan, yang dipakai orang lain, atau sedang ada disitu dengan tidak ada haknya, tidak dengan segera pergi dari tempat itu atas permintaan orang yang berhak atau atas nama orang yang berhak dihukum penjara selama-lamanya 9 bulan, atau denda sebanyak-banyak Rp. 4.500,-


Edit: Never mind, I got it now. I missed, "atau sedang ada disitu dengan tidak ada haknya". So if the person is there with no right to be there, it also applies.

Yes, simply being there without consent from an authorized person, combined with refusal to leave, is against the law.

Furthermore, section 3 of the article says:
“Jika mengeluarkan ancaman atau menggunakan sarana yang dapat menakutkan orang, diancam dengan pidana penjara paling lama satu tahun empat bulan.”

Loosely translated it’s: If (the person) issues threats or uses tools that can scare people, (it’s) punishable with incarceration at the most one year and four months.

 

[paulinenindhya]

Dogs! Perfect we only get polite visitors rattling on the gates then standing about 10 foot back because the dogs go nuts very noisily for visitors.
I have found them very effective for maintaining my particularly anti-social life

Noooo.
Batak eats dog..well not all of them but many (sorry in advance for all batak people here..)

I think u should get some ally @Methblinkz
Just stay close with other neighbors and RT there.
And just stay far or away from that person.
No need courtesy no need greetings.
Just know he's there and that's enough