Indonesian Electric Bike Laws Inquiry

[atlantis]

Mod Note: I have banned LaseKour. Spam bot. Beside sharing an IP with two spammers we recently banned post #19 is a repost of #6 already posted 10 days ago. If you read his other 2 or 3 posts you will see that he just reposts comments already made in order to increase its post count and perhaps avoid the scrutiny we usually have for first time posters.

 

[John indonesia]

Regulations concerning classification of vehicles and driving licenses don't vary by region. They are set by national laws (UU 22/2009) and further implemented by Peraturan Kapolri which are also valid nationwide.
SIM C, C1 and C2 have nothing to do with the number of pedals, the speed it can go, the fact that the rider has cool sunglasses or not or the size and noise of the exhaust but has to do with the kapasitas silinder the engine has (less than 250cc, up to 500cc, more than 500cc).

How about little pedal bikes with an electric motor like mine.
Do they need a SIM and documents, or are they just bicycles in local law?
The dealer said it was a bicycle so I didn't need anything. There aren't many police around here but they seem to ignore bikes similar to mine. Saying that, they ignore real motorbike riders without a helmet.
Any idea?

 

[nd_eric_77]

How about little pedal bikes with an electric motor like mine.
Do they need a SIM and documents, or are they just bicycles in local law?
The dealer said it was a bicycle so I didn't need anything. There aren't many police around here but they seem to ignore bikes similar to mine. Saying that, they ignore real motorbike riders without a helmet.
Any idea?

Little pedal bikes with an electric motor would fall into the electric bicycle (not motorcycle) category.

No SIM or other documents are needed. You are required to wear a helmet, but any standard bicycle helmet will do.

Regarding speed regulation, many electric bicycles have a pseudo-gear system that sets a maximum speed. It is true that they are limited to 25 kph... in "first gear". Pressing the "gear" button cycles from mode 1 up to mode 4 with maximum speed increasing by 5 kph with each up-shift. Hence, the e-bikes can go up to 40kph instead of just 25. Theoretically, you could get pulled over for exceeding 25 kph; but without speed detection equipment, that would require police to actively tail you to get a speedometer reading - and that seems pretty unlikely.

nb: I put "gear" in quotes because it is not mechanically geared in the sense that a transmission would be; the mode button is a purely electronic limiter.

 

[John indonesia]

Little pedal bikes with an electric motor would fall into the electric bicycle (not motorcycle) category.

No SIM or other documents are needed. You are required to wear a helmet, but any standard bicycle helmet will do.

Good news. I admit to not having a helmet, but hardly anyone on motorbikes seem to bother so it's unlikely I'll get into trouble.
Mine has three 'gears' The first is easy on the battery but the speed is very limited. I tend to use that when I'm on the estate. 2 never gets used - I use 3 when I'm on the road.
The bike can keep up with traffic quite happily, but I can't see me overtaking many cars.

 

[harryopal1]

Good news. I admit to not having a helmet, but hardly anyone on motorbikes seem to bother so it's unlikely I'll get into trouble.
Mine has three 'gears' The first is easy on the battery but the speed is very limited. I tend to use that when I'm on the estate. 2 never gets used - I use 3 when I'm on the road.
The bike can keep up with traffic quite happily, but I can't see me overtaking many cars.

"...unliklely I'll get into trouble..." No, matter how carefully you ride with the erratic mass of traffic the real trouble is you get knocked and hit the road head first. There are plenty of studies done showing how much safer you are with a helmet.

The Qld Dept of Transport posts, "

• This Australian study from 2017 collated data from more than 60,000 bike crashes around the world and found that bicycle helmets reduce injury significantly.
• Conducted by the University of NSW, the study found that wearing a helmet reduced the risk of head injury by 51%, serious head injuries by 69% and facial injuries by 33%.

The medical costs for head injury treatments can be very very steep. (Not to mention the cost of permanent brain damage.) If you really want to stay out of trouble you might consider wearing a helmet.

 

[Wisnu]

"...unliklely I'll get into trouble..." No, matter how carefully you ride with the erratic mass of traffic the real trouble is you get knocked and hit the road head first. There are plenty of studies done showing how much safer you are with a helmet.

The Qld Dept of Transport posts, "

• This Australian study from 2017 collated data from more than 60,000 bike crashes around the world and found that bicycle helmets reduce injury significantly.
• Conducted by the University of NSW, the study found that wearing a helmet reduced the risk of head injury by 51%, serious head injuries by 69% and facial injuries by 33%.

The medical costs for head injury treatments can be very very steep. (Not to mention the cost of permanent brain damage.) If you really want to stay out of trouble you might consider wearing a helmet.
View attachment 4498

I recall, when my workers see me riding bike with full face helmet and full riding gear stopped at my project 500 m away from home my workers asked me whether I want to ride for motor touring group. when I said, I just want to warm-up my bike by riding to the project. They're surprised, they told me no police in this area. I said, i need helmet and full gear for protection - my head and bone is not made of steels, not about police. They replied, for only 500m away bapak will not fall. I simply said, are you God?

 

[centurion]

Mod Note: I have banned LaseKour. Spam bot. Beside sharing an IP with two spammers we recently banned post #19 is a repost of #6 already posted 10 days ago. If you read his other 2 or 3 posts you will see that he just reposts comments already made in order to increase its post count and perhaps avoid the scrutiny we usually have for first time posters.

Who are these guys?

 

[Balifrog]

"...unliklely I'll get into trouble..." No, matter how carefully you ride with the erratic mass of traffic the real trouble is you get knocked and hit the road head first. There are plenty of studies done showing how much safer you are with a helmet.

The Qld Dept of Transport posts, "

• This Australian study from 2017 collated data from more than 60,000 bike crashes around the world and found that bicycle helmets reduce injury significantly.
• Conducted by the University of NSW, the study found that wearing a helmet reduced the risk of head injury by 51%, serious head injuries by 69% and facial injuries by 33%.

The medical costs for head injury treatments can be very very steep. (Not to mention the cost of permanent brain damage.) If you really want to stay out of trouble you might consider wearing a helmet.
View attachment 4498

Where are the days we rode to school on bicycles in shorts and no protection, enjoying freedom ?
Note that this was in Belgium in the 60's with already plenty bicycle paths. On the other hands the infamous Belgian pavement or the tram tracks were tricky, specially under the rain.
Of course I had a few falls with bruised elbows and knees.... And lucky our parents didn't see us doing certain things...

Training provided under police supervision (picture France)

 

[atlantis]

Who are these guys?

Spammers. I doubt they are humans behind the keyboard. If you do a google research you often find the exact same posts on other forums worldwide. 15 or 20 years ago they were just posting a link anywhere, often in totally unrelated threads, and leaving. Easy to spot.
Now it's a bit more tricky. "They" often register several accounts, integrate discussions with a few innocuous posts, then ask a question like "anyone know where I kind find quality [insert whatever you think of"], and another monicker comes up with a link and a supporting answer like " try [the brand they want to push with a link included], I have tried several other brands and they are by far the best". the shill trick is just done to persuade readers that they are legitimate and trustable posters.
There are several variants but more or less the above is what often happens.

If you read:

In Indonesia, any vehicle without pedals that can go over 25 km/h is generally treated as a motorcycle. You’ll likely need an Indonesian motorcycle license (SIM C). It’s a good idea to check with local traffic authorities to confirm, as regulations can vary by region.

It may give the impression that the poster is legit and helpful, and try to provide an informed answer, however the fact that he already posted the exact same post, word for word, 10 days before point to an automated bot performing a repetitive task. This, and the fact that if it's answer may look like an informed one made by someone knowing a bit of law, it's total bullshit when you dig into it. The 1992 LLAJ law and the 2009 LLAJ have NEVER classified ranmor like motorbikes by speed or pedals but only by cc size of engines. The bit about SIM regulations varying by region is the cherry on the cake.

 

[atlantis]

Spammers. I doubt they are humans behind the keyboard. If you do a google research you often find the exact same posts on other forums worldwide. 15 or 20 years ago they were just posting a link anywhere, often in totally unrelated threads, and leaving. Easy to spot.
Now it's a bit more tricky. "They" often register several accounts, integrate discussions with a few innocuous posts, then ask a question like "anyone know where I kind find quality [insert whatever you think of"], and another monicker comes up with a link and a supporting answer like " try [the brand they want to push with a link included], I have tried several other brands and they are by far the best". the shill trick is just done to persuade readers that they are legitimate and trustable posters.
There are several variants but more or less the above is what often happens.

If you read:

It may give the impression that the poster is legit and helpful, and try to provide an informed answer, however the fact that he already posted the exact same post, word for word, 10 days before point to an automated bot performing a repetitive task. This, and the fact that if it's answer may look like an informed one made by someone knowing a bit of law, it's total bullshit when you dig into it. The 1992 LLAJ law and the 2009 LLAJ have NEVER classified ranmor like motorbikes by speed or pedals but only by cc size of engines. The bit about SIM regulations varying by region is the cherry on the cake.

To illustrate how tricky these bots might be: LaseKour was registered in our database since 2022, but never posted. It was just a dormant account. No activity was registered. No connection, no posts.
However when I checked a bit more, interestingly it is the first moniker who read this electric bicycle thread after it was posted on October 09th 2024, and despite having no recorded connection to the server since the creation of its account.
Perhaps a key word in the OP sent an alert to their server. I am not savvy enough to explain it but I doubt it is a coincidence.
Then "LaseKour" didn't post before another month probably letting the discussion having some post being added (?).
In the meantime an already banned moniker with a shared IP with LaseKour, also created in 2022, started to connect again to our server at the date LaseKour started to post on the thread.
Being a banned monicker it couldn't post. We then saw a third moniker being created, also sharing an identical IP with LaseKour. Perhaps it would be this one who would post a link. The three have been banned but I have no doubt we will find a fourth a fifth, dll one.
That's a a lot of wasted time for us. We have a great software who deters a LOT of spammers with many anti spam features, but there is always a few who manage to make it and post.

 

[nd_eric_77]

It may give the impression that the poster is legit and helpful, and try to provide an informed answer, however the fact that he already posted the exact same post, word for word, 10 days before point to an automated bot performing a repetitive task. This, and the fact that if it's answer may look like an informed one made by someone knowing a bit of law, it's total bullshit when you dig into it. The 1992 LLAJ law and the 2009 LLAJ have NEVER classified ranmor like motorbikes by speed or pedals but only by cc size of engines. The bit about SIM regulations varying by region is the cherry on the cake.

Govt Regulates the Use of Electric Bicycles, E-scooters in Public

The Indonesian Transportation Ministry regulates the use of electric-powered means of transportation on public roads, such as electric bicycles.

en.tempo.co

For what it's worth, it would make no sense to regulate e-bikes based on the cc size of the engine because that is not how electric motors work.

 

[atlantis]

Govt Regulates the Use of Electric Bicycles, E-scooters in Public

The Indonesian Transportation Ministry regulates the use of electric-powered means of transportation on public roads, such as electric bicycles.

en.tempo.co

For what it's worth, it would make no sense to regulate e-bikes based on the cc size of the engine because that is not how electric motors work.

Yes, it's why you can not be required to have a SIM for it, and this even if your electric bike would be able to do 200 km/h. The 2009 LLAJ law has been enacted at a time e-bikes were not common (beside the fact that the SIM articles are basic repaste of the 1992 version) and, when it comes to SIM C regulating motorbikes, only the cc size is taking in account by the law. SIM A and B are regulated by the total weight of the vehicle and SIM D are for special vehicle for people with disabilities. In short none of these categories fits the particularity of an e-bike.
The government may issue regulations concerning e-bikes but can not force users to have a particular SIM without amending the UU.

 

[fastpitch17]

In the US in my preteens I rode a bike everywhere. We were not allowed on sidewalks so always in the streets no matter their size or how busy they were. Hardly ever heard of anyone on their bikes having accidents. No one wore helmets of any kind and shorts and tees were the dress of choice.

A funny story about riding on sidewalks. My wife who constantly rode her bike knew full well she was not allowed to ride on sidewalks so always rode in the street. When she was returning home she would get on the sidewalk that led to our home. One time she was stopped and ticketed for doing that. She had to attend a 3 hour bike safety class at the police station. Said the class was pretty boring as she sat with around 12 to 15 teens. After the class 2 police officers started hitting on her. She was knowledgeable enough to be able to guide them to the Wall of Honor and point out 2 of the earlier Captains. One my Uncle and God Father and the other my Godmother's husband. They backed off.

Good thing my Father wasn't mentioned since he was the guy in that family that caused any cop who looked sideways at him a bunch of grief. My father was the guy that when a bus needed a wider turn. he would get in it's path and refuse to move. To block in a neighbors car and then yell at the police who tried to ticket him because they were trespassing. He was known as the guy that threw the eventual Chief of Police off a bus into the Mississippi River when he said something to my Mother. So, good she didn't mention him.

 

[harryopal1]

To illustrate how tricky these bots might be: LaseKour was registered in our database since 2022, but never posted. It was just a dormant account. No activity was registered. No connection, no posts.
However when I checked a bit more, interestingly it is the first moniker who read this electric bicycle thread after it was posted on October 09th 2024, and despite having no recorded connection to the server since the creation of its account.
Perhaps a key word in the OP sent an alert to their server. I am not savvy enough to explain it but I doubt it is a coincidence.
Then "LaseKour" didn't post before another month probably letting the discussion having some post being added (?).
In the meantime an already banned moniker with a shared IP with LaseKour, also created in 2022, started to connect again to our server at the date LaseKour started to post on the thread.
Being a banned monicker it couldn't post. We then saw a third moniker being created, also sharing an identical IP with LaseKour. Perhaps it would be this one who would post a link. The three have been banned but I have no doubt we will find a fourth a fifth, dll one.
That's a a lot of wasted time for us. We have a great software who deters a LOT of spammers with many anti spam features, but there is always a few who manage to make it and post.

So is the main purpose of this AI trolling to gather data to then be onsold for commercial purposes or is there a more sinister aspect to do with gaining data on forum users to then scam them or misuse their identity?

 

[John indonesia]

"...unliklely I'll get into trouble..." No, matter how carefully you ride with the erratic mass of traffic the real trouble is you get knocked and hit the road head first. There are plenty of studies done showing how much safer you are with a helmet.

The Qld Dept of Transport posts, "

• This Australian study from 2017 collated data from more than 60,000 bike crashes around the world and found that bicycle helmets reduce injury significantly.
• Conducted by the University of NSW, the study found that wearing a helmet reduced the risk of head injury by 51%, serious head injuries by 69% and facial injuries by 33%.

The medical costs for head injury treatments can be very very steep. (Not to mention the cost of permanent brain damage.) If you really want to stay out of trouble you might consider wearing a helmet.
View attachment 4498

You're probably right. I'll buy one.

 

[John indonesia]

"...unliklely I'll get into trouble..." No, matter how carefully you ride with the erratic mass of traffic the real trouble is you get knocked and hit the road head first. There are plenty of studies done showing how much safer you are with a helmet.

The Qld Dept of Transport posts, "

• This Australian study from 2017 collated data from more than 60,000 bike crashes around the world and found that bicycle helmets reduce injury significantly.
• Conducted by the University of NSW, the study found that wearing a helmet reduced the risk of head injury by 51%, serious head injuries by 69% and facial injuries by 33%.

The medical costs for head injury treatments can be very very steep. (Not to mention the cost of permanent brain damage.) If you really want to stay out of trouble you might consider wearing a helmet.

I took your advice and bought a bicycle helmet that covers more of my head than those crown type ones do.
A quick internet search and a short chat with a bunch of people outside the bicycle shop decided the type.
It's not as good as a motorcycle helmet, but it should be ok for the sort of speeds I do.