Indonesian Citizen Benefits

Bad_azz

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I wonder how did the UK government know that you have renounced your UK citizenship if you do not tell them ?? AFAIK there is no requirement from the UK government that you have to tell them (please correct it).

When you applied for the Indonesian citizenship did the Indonesian government ask you a confirmation letter from the British Embassy ??
It is a requirement from Indonesia- obviously one can be dishonest & carry the risk of losing the Indonesian citizenship if caught out.
Personal choice: be legit or be at risk of wasting all the conversion cash & residency.The passport gets clipped early on in the process.
Indonesian government cannot make you renounce before getting accepted as RI citizen, they ask for documentation from the embassy- not renouncing, a different thing.
No country that I am aware of makes someone stateless before giving citizenship. One renounces citizenship through the UK govt IN the UK, & using online forms and paying out a substantial amount of money.
Then one has to post in the passport and other required documents- which cost a small fortune to send via DHL/other courier
 

Bad_azz

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Sure you can. I’ve had mine for years on a spousal kitap.
They changed the rules, mine was one of the last ones on a spousal KITAP - I was on edge wondering if it would get approved in time before the change.
However, what I do not know is IF they changed them back again.
 

Puspawarna

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First, big congrats to Bad_Azz! Some forms of identification, like sex and nationality, are chosen for us the moment we are born. Although the vast majority of people accept and are content with those parameters, even though they did not choose them, I admire those who make an active decision to define themselves on their own terms.

So, hooray for Bad_Azz, WNI by choice! (Just as I celebrate a Moroccan friend who chose to be American and gained his US citizenship a few years ago.)

Anyway, that's my opinion. Let me share the story of a friend of mine who continues to wrestle with citizenship issues. I don't have any answers for her or anyone else, but maybe her situation provokes worthwhile questions.

My friend is American but long ago made a life in Indonesia. She's been married for over two decades to an Indonesian man who is more than a decade older than she is and who has children from a previous marriage.

She and her husband together purchased land and built a beautiful home on Java. Of course, it's all in his name, since she is foreign. But her money paid for most of it, and her hope is that it is where she will live out the rest of her life.

As they age, she has some legitimate concerns. Her husband will probably pre-decease her, and his children from an earlier marriage will likely swoop in and take the property. As a foreigner, she has little recourse if they lay claim to it. Then what does she do? That situation argues strongly for her adopting WNI status.

On the other hand ... her father in America feels deeply hurt that she would even consider giving up her American citizenship, and she respects his wishes. Moreover, she has a family history of several health problems that would most likely obtain better quality medical care in the US - if she is an Indonesian citizen without the ability to travel freely to the US and avail herself of Medicaid and Medicare, she'll need to rely on the care she can get in Indonesia.

I don't have much respect for the American health care system, so I'm not sure she's giving up much by throwing herself on the mercy of what's available to Indonesian citizens. But, it's something she's thinking about.

As her friend, I can't tell her what to do. It's her choice. But no matter what, it is never easy.
 
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Helpful Herbert

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Wouldn't the property automatically become hers as the spouse, and she has one year in which to sell it or transfer the ownership to somebody else (of her choosing)?
Conversely would becoming Indonesian even solve the problem if the other children do in fact have rights to it?
 

Methblinkz

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Just wanted to point out that in some cases it is still possible to get BPJS with a spouse sponsored KITAP. If you are on the KK of your wife and stay persistent you might get lucky, just like in my case. Anyway, as I mentioned before, my wife is pretty confident and isn't scared to bug people if there is a need to do so. So it depends these days, it is not given that you automatically get BPJS with a spouse KITAP but it is possible, the rules are a bit wishy washy if you ask me. Got mine last year, but it was also a small struggle to get to this point.
 

Puspawarna

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Wouldn't the property automatically become hers as the spouse, and she has one year in which to sell it or transfer the ownership to somebody else (of her choosing)?
Conversely would becoming Indonesian even solve the problem if the other children do in fact have rights to it?
I don't know, but I know it's something she's concerned about. It's been a couple of years since we talked about it, so I don't remember all the particulars. Absent recollection of all the details, I shouldn't speculate ... but maybe she's concerned that the kids would mount some kind of legal challenge, and regardless of the law she'd be in a weak position as a foreigner?

And ... would it matter if the property was purchased before they were married? It was a big nightmare arranging his divorce, so it's possible he bought the property and his divorce/their marriage happened later. Obviously, I'm weak on the details.
 

SamR

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Wouldn't the property automatically become hers as the spouse, and she has one year in which to sell it or transfer the ownership to somebody else (of her choosing)?
Conversely would becoming Indonesian even solve the problem if the other children do in fact have rights to it?
Without prejudicing the decision of Puspawarna's friend, it is something she might want to check first. It's too major of a decision to make if things don't work out.

I don't know about some of the other Exes here, but it is a dilemma. My Dad has been interested in assisting me to purchase a house but the only thing stopping him from pulling the trigger is the issue of ownership. He would prefer it if I got hak milik on the house, but for WNA (which would include ex-WNI), only a hak pakai is possible.

The question then becomes 1) Is hak milik stronger than hak pakai before the law and is it "Safe" for me if I just go "Okay, I'll settle with hak pakai" 2)is it possible to convert hak pakai to hak milik for WNA? The Notary that we normally use has confessed she doesn't know enough to give an opinion on the issue but that "it sounds complicated".

So is the solution for me to regain my Indonesian citizenship? This where there are no easy answers. I've gone through the process of gaining the citizenship of another country with all of its consequences for my Indonesian citizenship for me to make the decision lightly and for me to make it without any real certainty about what's on the other side.
 

dafluff

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The question then becomes 1) Is hak milik stronger than hak pakai before the law and is it "Safe" for me if I just go "Okay, I'll settle with hak pakai"
Hak Milik is "stronger" than Hak Pakai, however, Hak Pakai is a bonafide right also, and you will be able to use the certificate to prove ownership and even get a bank loan (that is, the law allows it. Not sure if banks will go for it).

2)is it possible to convert hak pakai to hak milik for WNA? The Notary that we normally use has confessed she doesn't know enough to give an opinion on the issue but that "it sounds complicated".
It is not possible to convert the hak pakai to hak milik while the holder is WNA. However, it is possible to do so for a WNI (ie. if you become WNI or if you sell it to WNI). Some conditions apply (has to be residential housing, less than 600m2, etc...need to consult what the latest regulation is).
 

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