How to make a document legal and advice on translation of marriage certificate

Dpquinn

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Jul 19, 2017
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13
Hello there.

Wonder if anyone can help out with the following 2 queries.

1. Myself and my partner wish to make an 'addendum' to our prenuptial agreement, because there are some items we wished to include that apparently fall outside the scope of the standard prenup here. That's fine, but put simply, how do you make a document legal here? If we have written it and are happy with it, can we simply sign it with two witnesses, using a materai, and keep a copy each and one in a safe place? Or do we absolutely have to pay for a notaris and have it submitted at the relevant office? The document is a bit broader in scope that the standard pre-nup - basically talking about what we might do should we live in the UK later and religion of any children here. We aren't married yet so it is still a pre rather than postnup document.

2. Assuming our marriage certificate will only be written in Indonesian when we get it later in the year, how have any Brits out there gone about making it legal for use should we move to the UK at some future date? Is a certified translation good enough, or does it need submitting somewhere or 'legalising'? It sounds like the British Embassy in Jakarta isn't that interested as long as the marriage is legal according to Indonesian law and we have the original document, but I imagine presenting a document in Indonesian back in the UK would not be sufficient.

Any help much appreciated.

Dan
 

ChrisTex

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I think you could do one of three things.

1. Get it translated here and have your embassy notorize it.

2. When you are back home, talk to the people who you would register your marriage with and see if there is someone they recommend to have documents translated.

3. Have a small wedding at the city court.

My wife and I looked at doing option 2, but the price they were asking for was crazy. I think they wanted $400 per page.

My cousin who is also married to an Indonesian had recommended option 3. We might do it this December.

I am guessing, option 1 would be the cheapest and easiest to do though.
 

Helpful Herbert

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Interesting idea to put the religion of children n the prenup! In my experience as long as one of the parents is Islam then Islam will be put as their official religion on the KK. However I did bring this up with CatSip once and they told me we can change it any time. Also at school we can choose any religion, not the one on the official documents. Plus at some point they can decide by themselves when they are adults. So I'm guessing this has caused some big arguments at home already, and putting it in a pre-nup might somehow attempt to bury the issue so it does not come up again?
 

Dpquinn

Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2017
Messages
13
I think you could do one of three things.

1. Get it translated here and have your embassy notorize it.

2. When you are back home, talk to the people who you would register your marriage with and see if there is someone they recommend to have documents translated.

3. Have a small wedding at the city court.

My wife and I looked at doing option 2, but the price they were asking for was crazy. I think they wanted $400 per page.

My cousin who is also married to an Indonesian had recommended option 3. We might do it this December.

I am guessing, option 1 would be the cheapest and easiest to do though.
Thanks for this. Number 1 sounds the best, but apparently it is possible for us to get a certificate in both languages anyway. So fingers crossed for that.
 

Dpquinn

Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2017
Messages
13
Interesting idea to put the religion of children n the prenup! In my experience as long as one of the parents is Islam then Islam will be put as their official religion on the KK. However I did bring this up with CatSip once and they told me we can change it any time. Also at school we can choose any religion, not the one on the official documents. Plus at some point they can decide by themselves when they are adults. So I'm guessing this has caused some big arguments at home already, and putting it in a pre-nup might somehow attempt to bury the issue so it does not come up again?
As per usual, there seems to be contradictory information and/or laws and places where one interpretation is very different from an interpretation in another office or region. We haven't had any arguments about it at all, as luckily she completely agrees that it should ultimately be the choice of the individual, and there is one particular religious club that is difficult to get out of once you have joined so it seems awfully unfair to choose that one! Especially when it seems as if a dual legal system is becoming more and more likely here in the near future (as is the case in Malaysia already). Such personal decisions made by individuals should be free from coercion but, as most reading this would probably agree, coercion (whether subtle or obvious) is actually the main decider for folk in this part of the world.

There are other reasons relating to different areas too - just wondered if there was a basic minimum requirement for an agreement to be legally binding. Hopefully a materai and a couple of witnesses will be sufficient.
 

Helpful Herbert

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Mar 24, 2019
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129
Do you want it to be legally binding in Indonesia or in the UK? If it's just for Indonesia, I think it's very unlikely that a divorcing couple would go to court in Indonesia over terms of a pre-nup (unless perhaps they are very rich). It is just not really a thing people do here, I've certainly never heard of it.

For the UK system they are more of a "substance over form" type of place, and if you have made an agreement with witnesses, then UK courts would take it into account, you could also get it stamped by the Embassy (they have a price list for various services like that). But of course UK courts might not be all that interested in enforcing a particular religion on a child, considering nobody has to declare their religion there (I can't believe I've been here long enough that forcing children to have an official religion has started to be normalised in my mind).
 

Dpquinn

Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2017
Messages
13
Here. Especially for the religion bit as in the UK you actually have genuine intellectual freedom - something sorely lacking here which is part of why I want this document. Forcing children to have an official religion to begin with in order not be forced into one particular box.... very important if you value genuine intellectual freedom. Look at Malaysia - perhaps an example of how things will go here with growing conservatism (eg the criminal code changes that are likely to be coming later this month!) Other stuff is mostly about business ideas and what would happen if they succeeded and then we divorced or one of us died - partly just so we can remind ourselves from time to time should we later wonder what we agreed at the outset.

BUT... very sadly all this is on hold as, surprise surprise, one of her irresponsible relatives has a problem (genuine) that needs (my) money to fix, so today I am weighing up whether to actually go through with it and potentially be stuck in a place like this (UK spouse visas very difficult now, especially for us English teachers, many of whom simply die here in poverty once they reach 60 or so and can no longer find enough work).
 

ChrisTex

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Jul 18, 2016
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Thanks for this. Number 1 sounds the best, but apparently it is possible for us to get a certificate in both languages anyway. So fingers crossed for that.
Check your embassy's website. They might offer a list of people or companies they recommend for translation. However, you will probably be ok if you find your own to have it translated. That is what my wife did and they US Embassy didn't have an issue with it. The only issue I had was the embassy wouldn't notorized copies of the translation.
 

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