Homelessness

[harryopal1]

Australia invented the stump jump plough and quite a few other things. We really are very clever. And now the Moreton Bay Council in New South Wales has come up with the perfect solution for homesslessness. They have made homelessness illegal with an $8065 fine. I wonder what the $65 is for. The homeless there get ordered to leave from wherever they are camping and are referred to agencies which don't have the capacity to provide sufficient accommodation. The homeless won't be able to pay the fine so put them in gaol where it costs $400 a day. With elections coming up the conservative leader, Dutton should seize on this and promise to make homelessness illegal in Australia and in that way dissolve the rental problems. The idea should be patentented as this will be taken up around the world and we will get royalties. We should really be regarded as a superpower along with the other great nations.

 

[Shadrach]

Australia invented the stump jump plough and quite a few other things. We really are very clever. And now the Moreton Bay Council in New South Wales has come up with the perfect solution for homesslessness. They have made homelessness illegal with an $8065 fine. I wonder what the $65 is for. The homeless there get ordered to leave from wherever they are camping to agencies which don't have the capacity to provide sufficient accommodation. The homeless won't be able to pay the fine so put them in gaol where it costs $400 a day. With elections comming up the conservative leader, Dutton should seize on this and promise to make homelessness illegal in Australia and in that way dissolve the rental problems. The idea should be patentented as this will be taken up around the world and we will get royalties. We should really be regarded as a superpower along with the other great nations.
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I think you're on to something Brilliant! That really makes a lot of sense to fine a homeless person $8065. I mean really it's bad for the Council to have such a stain on their Image! It makes perfect sense to make all of Australia illegal to be homeless. Then since they cannot pay, just lock all the homeless up in Jail, and make all the Taxpayers foot the Bill.
Or maybe, since almost All the White Australian's are descendants of Europeans, Send all the White, Homeless back to Europe! That would solve the lack of housing, and Australia would be only the Privileged Whites, and Asians, and the Aborigines!
A Bali lady said to me that All Americans are Rich, so there's No Homeless Problems there. She must have seen that on Television. Because everyone knows, if it's on Television, it must be True!
Maybe Australia should ask America, how to fix this Homeless problem?

 

[pantaiema]

In developed countries like Australia, the US, and those in Europe with relatively good benefit, socials security systems most rational individuals would not choose to sleep rough on the streets or at train stations when they could have access to free shelter and hot meals.

The main exceptions are those struggling with drug addiction, alcoholism, or mental illness. Therefore, addressing homelessness effectively requires tackling these underlying issues first. Regarding the Bali Lady's comment on the homelessness issue in the U.S., she may not be aware of the situation on Kensington Avenue in Philadelphia, often referred to as Zombie City.

If you propose solutions to NGOs and charities, many would likely claim they can resolve the problem, often because they anticipate receiving taxpayer funding. However, the real question is: how many of them are actually making a meaningful impact, and are they truly solving the issue ?

 

[Shadrach]

In developed countries like Australia, the US, and those in Europe with relatively good benefit, socials security systems most rational individuals would not choose to sleep rough on the streets or at train stations when they could have access to free shelter and hot meals.

The main exceptions are those struggling with drug addiction, alcoholism, or mental illness. Therefore, addressing homelessness effectively requires tackling these underlying issues first. Regarding the Bali Lady's comment on the homelessness issue in the U.S., she may not be aware of the situation on Kensington Avenue in Philadelphia, often referred to as Zombie City.

If you propose solutions to NGOs and charities, many would likely claim they can resolve the problem, often because they anticipate receiving taxpayer funding. However, the real question is: how many of them are actually making a meaningful impact, and are they truly solving the issue ?

It's not as easy as you say getting those free meals and going to a shelter. Often they are already full, and staying in those places is not a picnic! Going to facilities to deal with Alcoholism, Drug addiction, and Mental illness is not as easy as you make it sound. There are many factors involved. These facilities are hard to access if you have no transportation, and there are wait times, restrictions, etc.
When a person has reached rock bottom, and lost everything, they are not thinking in a rational manner. Yea, Your probably right about that Bali lady. They don't show Zombie City on television here in Indonesia, and it's not in the local gossip. They show the guy wearing Ray-Ban sunglasses, driving the Hot car, surrounded by Beautiful girls, wearing Bikini's! Smoking Marlboro cigarettes! So I think maybe that's why they think all American's are Rich!
Regarding NGO's and Charities, as well as Church organization's, Many do Care and sincerely try to help, but receiving funds is extremely difficult, and especially now, in the US, with Putin's two lackey's running the show, trying to assist poor people is not their priority! They are doing their best to squeeze as much $ from every program they can, to run the country, and give the Billionaires huge Tax Breaks!

 

[harryopal1]

In developed countries like Australia, the US, and those in Europe with relatively good benefit, socials security systems most rational individuals would not choose to sleep rough on the streets or at train stations when they could have access to free shelter and hot meals.

The main exceptions are those struggling with drug addiction, alcoholism, or mental illness. Therefore, addressing homelessness effectively requires tackling these underlying issues first. Regarding the Bali Lady's comment on the homelessness issue in the U.S., she may not be aware of the situation on Kensington Avenue in Philadelphia, often referred to as Zombie City.

If you propose solutions to NGOs and charities, many would likely claim they can resolve the problem, often because they anticipate receiving taxpayer funding. However, the real question is: how many of them are actually making a meaningful impact, and are they truly solving the issue ?

Unfortunately in Australia the huge problem is a shortage of affordable rentals. Prices have tripled in recent years making it nigh impossible for many perfectly decent, working and drug and alcohol free Australians to find accommodation. Our federal and state governments have failed to recognize the extent of the crisis and local governments such as the Moreton Bay Council think the solution is to just get rid of people from their areas.

People who list for government subsidized accommodation can wait ten years to reach the head of the application queues.

 

[harryopal1]

Just after posting the above I see in the ABC news that Brisbane council has been inspired by the Moreton Bay Council and and Queensland's capital city, Brisbane is now going to expel campers from parks. Those in authority keep suggesting that homeless people are provided for and ignore the reality that there are not enough places for all the people needing secure accommodation.

 

[Shadrach]

Unfortunately in Australia the huge problem is a shortage of affordable rentals. Prices have tripled in recent years making it nigh impossible for many perfectly decent, working and drug and alcohol free Australians to find accommodation. Our federal and state governments have failed to recognize the extent of the crisis and local governments such as the Moreton Bay Council think the solution is to just get rid of people from their areas.

People who list for government subsidized accommodation can wait ten years to reach the head of the application queues.

Maybe, instead of spending Billions of $, on Nuclear Submarines, they should build affordable housing, and develop more land, that at the moment is uninhabitable? Conditions like this can make a person want to go out and get high on Drugs, and Alcohol!

 

[pantaiema]

Unfortunately in Australia the huge problem is a shortage of affordable rentals. Prices have tripled in recent years making it nigh impossible for many perfectly decent, working and drug and alcohol free Australians to find accommodation. Our federal and state governments have failed to recognize the extent of the crisis and local governments such as the Moreton Bay Council think the solution is to just get rid of people from their areas.

People who list for government subsidized accommodation can wait ten years to reach the head of the application queues.

There is no doubt, there must be some of acidental homeless. But for sensible people seeking solutions, there are several options available. One could purchase a used car, a camper van, or a more convenient caravan. Nowadays, this lifestyle is becoming increasingly common among young people who cannot afford to pay rent in the world's most expensive cities.

In Australia, I believe a similar system exists. If someone finds themselves without a place to stay for the night, they can arrange a quick phone interview with the local council, which will typically provide accommodation in a hostel nearby. However, they must first register as homeless. For subsequent requests, the interview process may take less than a minute, as officials will already have their details and trust that they are not abusing the system.

Surprisingly, some individuals refuse to move into more structured free accommodation, free hot meal provided by the state. Instead, they choose to remain on the streets, preferring to stay close to their community.

Becoming homeless in Indonesia is much harder as if you do not have family, friends, relative helping to home and feed you, do not expect the state will be helping you.

 

[harryopal1]

There is no doubt, there must be some of acidental homeless. But for sensible people seeking solutions, there are several options available. One could purchase a used car, a camper van, or a more convenient caravan. Nowadays, this lifestyle is becoming increasingly common among young people who cannot afford to pay rent in the world's most expensive cities.

In Australia, I believe a similar system exists. If someone finds themselves without a place to stay for the night, they can arrange a quick phone interview with the local council, which will typically provide accommodation in a hostel nearby. However, they must first register as homeless. For subsequent requests, the interview process may take less than a minute, as officials will already have their details and trust that they are not abusing the system.

Surprisingly, some individuals refuse to move into more structured free accommodation, free hot meal provided by the state. Instead, they choose to remain on the streets, preferring to stay close to their community.

Becoming homeless in Indonesia is much tougher as if you do not have family, friends, relative helping to home ad feed you, do not expect the state will be helping you.

 

[harryopal1]

Pantaiema, I am sorry but would that it were so simple as a phone interview with the local council and then accommodation at a nearby hostel. Where there have been such facililties they are no longer able to keep pace with demand. There are many thousands of people who have cars, caravans, camper vans unable to find suitable places to camp. There are families with children on the move and living in quite desperate circumstances. Caravan parks are disappearing as they are sold for investment and development which, even when finished, are now beyond being affordable. As I have pointed out, many councils are quite hostile towards itinerants and pushing people out of public park areas or trying to camp overnight in quieter streets. There is also the issue of lack of toilets, showering and cooking facilities.

Just this week SBS news reported, "Median-income households — earning $116,000 a year — can only afford just over a third of advertised rentals, according to a new report from real estate research body PropTrack."

You might imagine then the struggle lower income families and individuals have in finding affordable accommodation. Homelessness is no longer just a problem for alcoholics, drug users and people with mental problems.

 

[pantaiema]

I am sorry but would that it were so simple as a phone interview with the local council and then accommodation at a nearby hostel. There are families with children on the move and living in quite desperate circumstances. Caravan parks are disappearing as they are sold for investment and development which, even when finished, are now beyond being affordable.

Yes as simple as that, This is an example the statement from Citizen advice bereau

If you have reached out to them and they are unable to accommodate you for the night, and that person ends up in an accident, the council could face serious consequences, it would make tabloid headlines. However, as mentioned earlier, some individuals may choose to stay on the streets to remain close to their community. This is also why the council does not provide them with cash directly but instead arranges accommodation on their behalf.

Some people have been living in camper vans,. used old cars for years, with some even sharing their lifestyle on social media. This trend is becoming more common in cities where rental prices are soaring. They spend the night in their vehicles, often relying on parking spaces at chain supermarkets, for instance. They don't need a designated caravan site for this.

For some, this way of living is a result of accidental homelessness, while others choose it as an affordable lifestyle. Understanding how they manage it requires learning from their experiences.

However, if a homeless family with children is involved, that becomes a completely different issue. They would be prioritized for accommodation; otherwise, the council could face significant challenges, problems. The media would likely cover the story extensively, and human rights and child welfare activists, lawyers would hold the government accountable.

 

[john madden]

Pantaiema, how about you acknowledge the reality that it's not always the fault of the individual. How about you listen to, read harryopal and the links he provides. How about, if he's talking Australia you don't post links about the UK.

 

[pantaiema]

Pantaiema, how about you acknowledge the reality that it's not always the fault of the individual. How about you listen to, read harryopal and the links he provides. How about, if he's talking Australia you don't post links about the UK.

Well, I acknowledged that in my post #6
"There is no doubt, there must be some of acidental homeless. "

"In Australia, I believe a similar system exists. If someone finds themselves without a place to stay for the night, they can arrange a quick phone interview with the local council, which will typically provide accommodation in a hostel nearby. " if this was not the case then it could be further dicussed using various countries as comparison

I have seen a few videos of people living in camper vans for years in Australia as well. This are just a few examples

 

[john madden]

It's not the case.

 

[Shadrach]

Those video's were two world's apart. The first was obviously a young woman, with plenty of money, and time to renovate her van. And live without having to work. The couple had lots of money, and created a deluxe camper, and are able to work anywhere, with an internet connection.
The second video was more true to the homeless persons situation. She spoke of being harassed, just for parking where people didn't like. Having to go to the food bank for Essentials!. Living off a tight budget, No work. She didn't mention how she baths and uses a toilet. She was lucky she at least had the van. So you see the different experiences for people doing it as a holiday, or the ones that can work from anywhere, or the woman without work.
Just as Harryopal stated, She spoke of how people need affordable housing. Pantaiema, You must understand, Most people Do Not have the luxury of calling their local council, and finding assistance. They are desperate and find people, the Police are not kind, or helpful, and run them off. Just like Harryopal spoke of that city council, and now Brisbane that don't give a damn and just want to run the people off, to go be someone else's problem.
All the while, These council members have nice homes, and security! As I suggested before, This should be a priority for Australians and instead of spending Billions of Dollars on Nuclear SUBMARINES. spend this money on the Australian people in Need!

 

[harryopal1]

Pantamaiema, as an Australian who returns each year, who has travelled around every state of the country including the Territories of the Nothern Territory and the ACT I can assure you there is a huge gap between the reality of homelessness and the theory of governmental and council assistance. The grim fact is that these assistance agencies do not have the capacity to deal with the present crisis. I do not understand why you want to cling to the notion that the homeless are people who do not want to take advantage of all the programs to which you refer. The vast majority are ordinary decent people who have been overwhelmed by the steep increase in the cost of living and all but impossible to find affordable accommodation.

As for van life can you imagine the difficulties of coping without access to ready santitation facilities and being moved on night after night by local authorities. An absolute nightmare for families with children. It is still better than sleeping on the street but poses immeasurable problems trying to lead a decent life. If you were unemployed, one of the first things an employer wants is your address. Your notions of how it is in Australia read like a public relations response being provided by an agency. The difference is between fact and fantasy.

In many respects this is now not a uniquely Australian phenomena but is overtaking millions across Western and "developed countries."

 

[harryopal1]

Pantaiema, I take your point that it is a lot tougher in Indonesia where there is no social security and. without family support. life for poor Indonesians is infinitely harder. I am saddened by the plight of people in those areas of Jabodetabek who are now flooded with almost every major downpour.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

And the religious people to whom they devote so much of their lives do absolutely nothing to help homeless people or people in severe poverty. They are just ignored as an inconvenience, while turning the loudspeaker up to 11.

 

[fastpitch17]

And the religious people to whom they devote so much of their lives do absolutely nothing to help homeless people or people in severe poverty. They are just ignored as an inconvenience, while turning the loudspeaker up to 11.

Government workers are not any different. If a low to no income person seeks assistance with a problem then are mostly ignored. I have heard of Lurah level personnel telling some they are too low to deal with. Police reports go into the trash since there is no payment accompanying them.

 

[pantaiema]

Those video's were two world's apart. The first was ...
The second video was ..

The videos above just a few examples. YouTube and other social media platforms will reveal countless stories of individuals embracing life on the road.

I do not understand why you want to cling to the notion that the homeless are people who do not want to take advantage of all the programs to which you refer. The vast majority are ordinary decent people who have been overwhelmed by the steep increase in the cost of living and all but impossible to find affordable accommodation.

As for van life can you imagine the difficulties of coping without access to ready santitation facilities and being moved on night after night by local authorities. An absolute nightmare for families with children. It is still better than sleeping on the street but poses immeasurable problems trying to lead a decent life. If you were unemployed, one of the first things an employer wants is your address. Your notions of how it is in Australia read like a public relations response being provided by an agency. The difference is between fact and fantasy.

I completely agree that some homeless individuals are decent people who have unintentionally found themselves in that situation, and I acknowledged that in my previous post. However, there are better solutions for those seeking help. When Australian citizens suddenly lose their jobs, don’t they receive unemployment benefits from the state? Now, compare that to illegal immigrants living in Australia how many of them are sleeping rough on the streets? If they sleep rough on the streets, they risk being caught by the police. They face an even tougher situation, forced to live in hiding to avoid immigration authorities, with no state benefits and very limited access to healthcare.

"Although the Australian Bureau of Statistics doesn’t track the exact number of people living in vans, data from 2021 indicates that 772,627 caravans and camper vans were registered across the country". This number has likely increased in recent years especially when factoring in unregistered vehicles used for off-grid living. The soaring price of renting, especially in some of the world’s most expensive cities in the world.

Why more women are choosing a solo van life over traditional bricks and mortar

Hitting the open road in search of adventure sounds undeniably romantic, but for many women living the solo van life, it's more about economic necessity than escapism.

www.abc.net.au

Why More Australian Women Are Choosing Solo Van Life

Regarding the question of how they manage basic sanitary needs ?Well, people can learn from those who have experienced it. But shouldn’t the same question be asked of people experiencing homelessness and sleeping rough on the streets?

How Do You Handle Bathroom Needs When Living in a Van?

How do you handle "bathroom needs" when living a van life?

Answer (1 of 3): I’d keep a jar for pissing in. Piss is pretty benign so I’d feel free to piss in the bushes or behind a dumpster or on the tire of a big truck. It seemed that I trained myself so that I only needed to poop during hours that the libraries or the Starbucks were open. Occasionally I...

www.quora.com

But from what I have learnt, some van dwellers rely on affordable basic gym memberships that provide access to showers and restrooms. Public facilities such as those in fast-food outlets (McDonald's, KFC, Nando’s, etc), shopping centre, libraries, and community centres also offer accessible restrooms. Some camper van is also installed with camper van toilet. Not to mention if they are still working they have access to bathroom, toilets in the work place.

For accidental homeless, van life isn’t a lifestyle choice, but it could be a temporary solution to sudden homelessness. In such cases, living in a vehicle while not as comfortable as a home is often a safer and more humane alternative to sleeping rough on the street. As housing affordability worsens, van living may continue to rise as a viable option for those struggling to make ends meet.

When it comes to homeless families with children, I have travelled to many big cities in the developed world where the cost of living are very high, yet I don’t recall ever seeing children sleeping rough on the streets. A possible explanation for this might be in my post #11. I wonder how many children are currently sleeping rough on the streets in Australia?

There is usually a solution, temporary solution for those who are willing to find one, especially when many others have been doing that.