'Hizbut Tahrir Indonesia' Rallies for Its Caliphate

[serious_fun]

Here is an interesting article (with pdf download) regarding Hizbut Tahrir Indonesia and its demands for an Islamic caliphate in Indonesia.

 

[Shadrach]

Here is an interesting article (with pdf download) regarding Hizbut Tahrir Indonesia and its demands for an Islamic caliphate in Indonesia.

This is some really scary stuff! Remember the Bali Bombing? Violence is not the way! Why is it that Muslims and Christians keep pushing their beliefs on everyone! Religion is a personal matter. It should be kept out of Schools, and The Government! That includes Hindu religion also!
Educating and Governing the People should be free of Religious beliefs! All of Them! If a family wants to teach their Children a Religion, they should do it at their homes, and at their Temples, and Churches, and Mosques!
I agree that something desperately needs to be done to Help the People in Gaza. But Gaza is not the Only place that needs Help! Children are starving in Sudan and other African nations. Religious fanaticism is Not the answer! Bali People should be very diligent about this, if they want to maintain there Hindu majority in Bali. Just look at most of Indonesia?
Humans are a Sick species on this Planet! Most of them pollute and destroy everything they touch. Even their own species! Where is the Love, and Compassion?

 

[Hawk256]

Here is an interesting article (with pdf download) regarding Hizbut Tahrir Indonesia and its demands for an Islamic caliphate in Indonesia.

Anyone can demand anything. No true Muslim backed authority would back a modern caliphate and certainly not against a government's will.

 

[jstar]

I guess you never read ‘here or on LIIF’ about the shocking results of the Sharia yes or no poll/survey of the Indonesian people? Or the FPI and Rizieq support for Prabowo attempt 1 at the time?

 

[Hawk256]

I guess you never read ‘here or on LIIF’ about the shocking results of the Sharia yes or no poll/survey of the Indonesian people? Or the FPI and Rizieq support for Prabowo attempt 1 at the time?

The people does not a caliphate make and it is not the same as vote for Sharia. In those polls I would imagine the local governments keep control of Sharia law, like in Aceh.

 

[Shadrach]

How is it, That Aceh has strict Sharia law, but Grows the Ganja, For all of Indonesia?

 

[jstar]

In those polls I would imagine the local governments keep control of Sharia law, like in Aceh.

Ah so that’s better, having the Sharia laws but keeping the corrupt governments? It’s the worst of both worlds.

Of course Prabowo’s move to give the army more power (again) makes perfect sense to push back to these former allies that he relied on.

And not for nothing people like Megawati declare that without Pancasila there will be hell.

The problem here is that all these groups like HTI and FPI are banned but obviously the people are still there and very active. And sponsored by the usual suspects from abroad.

 

[nd_eric_77]

This reminds me of those ridiculous polls cited by a (former?) member here showing that a huge majority of Indonesians wanted sharia law throughout the country (funny how they did not break the numbers down by region)... And yet the Islamist parties still do not win anywhere near a majority of seats in the legislature.

 

[Pak Tani]

I guess you never read ‘here or on LIIF’ about the shocking results of the Sharia yes or no poll/survey of the Indonesian people?

I assume you mean the Pew Research poll from 2013? The Jakarta Post had an article about it: Seven in 10 Indonesian Muslims want sharia law: Pew study. The title is rather tendentious, and if you read any further:

Azyumardi Azra, the director of the Syarif Hidayatullah State Islamic University's graduate studies in Jakarta, said he questioned the extent to which the survey result actually reflected the truth.'The 72 percent figure doesn't make any sense,'

What 72% of Indonesian Muslims wanted was that certain aspects of sharia, like the use of religious law in family and property disputes, were implemented.

And yet the Islamist parties still do not win anywhere near a majority of seats in the legislature.

Updated with 2024 general election data

 

[Hawk256]

Ah so that’s better, having the Sharia laws but keeping the corrupt governments? It’s the worst of both worlds.

Never said that it was better only that what you are saying and what they are saying are not the same things but even if they were, no one else would recognize it. Pak Tani has the best response to the poll and what those numbers mean. I think you either misunderstood them or chose to misrepresent them to further your argument.

 

[Bob]

How is it, That Aceh has strict Sharia law, but Grows the Ganja, For all of Indonesia?

So? There's no specific prohibition of weed in the Quran. Btw, unless it's changed recently, Lynchburg, Tennessee is dry.

 

[Bob]

Ah so that’s better, having the Sharia laws but keeping the corrupt governments? It’s the worst of both worlds.

Of course Prabowo’s move to give the army more power (again) makes perfect sense to push back to these former allies that he relied on.

And not for nothing people like Megawati declare that without Pancasila there will be hell.

The problem here is that all these groups like HTI and FPI are banned but obviously the people are still there and very active. And sponsored by the usual suspects from abroad.

Who are the usual suspects from abroad?

 

[jstar]

Saudi Arabia, Iran (Shia), Pakistan and Bangladesh. There are also ties with Malaysia’s PAS and thus the Taliban.

 

[jstar]

Talking about that; forget vacationing in Bali or Spain, go to Afghanistan instead. Free armed protection.

Holiday in Afghanistan: Taliban wish you were here - BBC News

Tourism is booming under the Taliban regime as Westerners flock to see its unspoilt sites - but not everyone is winning.

www.bbc.com

 

[Shadrach]

Talking about that; forget vacationing in Bali or Spain, go to Afghanistan instead. Free armed protection.

View attachment 4968

Holiday in Afghanistan: Taliban wish you were here - BBC News

Tourism is booming under the Taliban regime as Westerners flock to see its unspoilt sites - but not everyone is winning.

www.bbc.com

What a Sad Fact that they blew up those ancient Buddha statues. I could never get behind supporting the Taliban for how they stopped the educated Women from working. Stopped girls from getting more than elementary school. Making Women wear black covering from head to toe, even covering the eyes! It used to be free before the Taliban Fanatic Muslims took over. Women went to university, had high level jobs, could wear dresses, pants, girls could go to all levels of school!
I don't know about now, but the used to produce high quality Hashish, that even got exported to Europe, and America! Now there is Oppression at it's finest!

 

[Pak Tani]

Btw, unless it's changed recently, Lynchburg, Tennessee is dry.

Wait, Tennessee has sharia law?!?

There's no specific prohibition of weed in the Quran.

True, weed is not explicitly mentioned in the Quran or Hadith. The word used in the Quran is khamr. This is indeed best described as wine; however, in fiqh, the meaning of khamr goes beyond just wine. The reason why wine is prohibited in Islam is because of its intoxicating effects and the way it impairs judgment.

وَالْخَمْرُ مَا خَامَرَ الْعَقْلَ​

And khamr is that which intoxicates the mind...(Sunan Abi Dawud)

The Islamic scholars use the principle of analogy (qiyas) to classify weed (and other substances that impair judgment and can cause intoxication) as similar to alcohol (khamr), which is forbidden.

​

 

[Bob]

Saudi Arabia, Iran (Shia), Pakistan and Bangladesh. There are also ties with Malaysia’s PAS and thus the Taliban.

Thanks. I suppose there's some local funding too. I'm not sure we can say that dealing with PAS is dealing with the Afghan Taliban though. PAS isn't their proxy and they have their political differences.

 

[Bob]

Wait, Tennessee has sharia law?!?



True, weed is not explicitly mentioned in the Quran or Hadith. The word used in the Quran is khamr. This is indeed best described as wine; however, in fiqh, the meaning of khamr goes beyond just wine. The reason why wine is prohibited in Islam is because of its intoxicating effects and the way it impairs judgment.

وَالْخَمْرُ مَا خَامَرَ الْعَقْلَ​

And khamr is that which intoxicates the mind...(Sunan Abi Dawud)

The Islamic scholars use the principle of analogy (qiyas) to classify weed (and other substances that impair judgment and can cause intoxication) as similar to alcohol (khamr), which is forbidden.

​

Thank you for the clarification there.
Yes Tennessee has their form of Sharia but not to the extent Kentucky does. In both states, whether alcohol sales are legal is decided by referendum in individual counties. Some allow none at all, some allow beer and wine only, and some allow liquor. Several counties have gone wet recently though. I guess the conservative church - bootlegger coalitions aren't as strong as they used to be.

 

[Shadrach]

I find this interesting. A while back in the comments, there was talk of groups that want to hate, blow up and destroy other people. But then the conversation comes to people talking about using intoxicants. So apparently it's OK to spread Hatred towards the West, and kill People, as long as the People doing it don't get High? What kind of Religion promotes these teachings and Ideas? I can't believe any Holy Person would teach this! These ideas can't be the teachings of Mohammed, Jesus, Buddha!

 

[Hawk256]

I find this interesting. A while back in the comments, there was talk of groups that want to hate, blow up and destroy other people. But then the conversation comes to people talking about using intoxicants. So apparently it's OK to spread Hatred towards the West, and kill People, as long as the People doing it don't get High? What kind of Religion promotes these teachings and Ideas? I can't believe any Holy Person would teach this! These ideas can't be the teachings of Mohammed, Jesus, Buddha!

No one sane, has said that religion says it OK to spread hatred towards anyone. You get a few that act on bad information but still somehow get considered as doing religious acts by others and you have an easy turd in the punch bowl. Plenty of zealots in all religions throughout history. It's not limited to one or two.