firearms in Indonesia

Nimbus

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There is a range in Bali too. The per-bullet cost is ridiculous, and if those prices were applied in the US, gun violence would be solved instantly.
I don’t think so. It often takes just one bullet to kill, especially since most gun statistics include suicides. If you can afford a $600 gun, you can afford an outrageously expensive $2 bullet. Some of my self defense ammo costs $1 each.

Most criminals don’t go to the range and practice. Bullets are already more expensive for them because gun store owners are reluctant to sell to shady looking people, and Walmart has stopped selling pistol ammo in many stores. They need to buy from an intermediary or steal it.
 

HappyMan

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Yes, I think this image highlights precisely what the problem is.
Where did you get that graph? I can find the image on google, but not on any reputable source for it. I just see a lot of people in forums asking where the graph is sourced and posters failing to answer.

Also, is that victims or perpetrators?

I'm just trying to understand the context of the graph, and why it is making a racial distinction.
 

dafluff

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I don’t think so. It often takes just one bullet to kill, especially since most gun statistics include suicides. If you can afford a $600 gun, you can afford an outrageously expensive $2 bullet. Some of my self defense ammo costs $1 each.

Most criminals don’t go to the range and practice. Bullets are already more expensive for them because gun store owners are reluctant to sell to shady looking people, and Walmart has stopped selling pistol ammo in many stores. They need to buy from an intermediary or steal it.

Relax chief, it was hyperbole meant as humor...
 

Nimbus

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Relax chief, it was hyperbole meant as humor...
I take it seriously because, believe it or not, people propose it as an actual solution from time to time.



American politicians have a long history of taxing and increasing the cost of undesirable actions. In the past some people were taxed to vote, so poor minorities were disenfranchised, which was the exact intent.

Certain Republican-controlled states imposed onerous and expensive requirements for doctors and clinics that perform abortions, precisely to drive them out of business. It doesn’t stop abortions, it would just push women to use unsafe methods.
 

Hawk256

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I heard some guys from abroad had some fun at the Senayan shooting range where they could fire Pindad rifles, IIRC even in full-auto mode.
If you are ever in Phnom Phen, Cambodia they have a shooting range where you fire practically anything for the right price. Last time I was there an RPG was $400 to fire. I stuck with the .45 Tommy Gun in full auto.
 

Nimbus

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Charts without traceable sources are usually suspect. Here’s my own calculation complete with the links.

Firearm homicide by whites in 2019: 3,266
Firearm homicide by blacks in 2019: 6,038

Population percentage of whites: 76.3%
Population percentage of blacks: 13.4%
Total population estimate on July 1st, 2019: 328,239,523

Firearm homicide by whites per 100,000 of their population: 3266 / 0.763 / 328239523 * 100000 = 1.3
Firearm homicide by blacks per 100,000 of their population: 6038 / 0.134 / 328239523 * 100000 = 13.7


B50749AA-6BB6-49D0-8C61-C3AC728FCCCA.jpeg

6359611B-05F6-4470-B850-55EF07F83675.jpeg


The sad fact is that black people in USA are 10 times more likely to commit murder with firearms than whites.

Now, if you think the number proves that black people are genetically more predisposed to crime, then you’re a racist. There is no scientific evidence that —all other things being equal— being black makes you more likely to commit crime.

Here’s one factor affecting crime statistics:
C7054FE6-C22C-45E9-ABF7-4DFC64D738C5.jpeg
Black households in America earn a little over half the income of white ones.

If you say they’re earning less because they’re too busy committing crime, then you’re a racist. Homicide rate of 13.7 per 100,000 is 0.0137 percent. About 1 in 10,000 blacks commit murder, yet the entire population on average is earning a little more than half of whites. It’s not because of crime, it’s definitely something else.
 

harryopal

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Franz Fanon in his book Wretched of the Earth offers an insight into the psychology of the self destructive nature of the poorest and most oppressed.
 

rabbit_39

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@Nimbus can you add the percentage of blacks vs whites living in low income or high crime neighborhoods? I believe the disproportionate numbers you brought up are valid, but what's always been missing is the context. The biggest context in my opinion is more the social conditions.
 

Nimbus

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@Nimbus can you add the percentage of blacks vs whites living in low income or high crime neighborhoods? I believe the disproportionate numbers you brought up are valid, but what's always been missing is the context. The biggest context in my opinion is more the social conditions.
It’s a complicated and time consuming study, but the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland has done some analysis for Cleveland.


FF12FA26-1B24-4B9A-9B95-79470955C2F2.jpeg

It’s rather dry, but informative if you have interest in the subject.
 

centurion

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It’s a complicated and time consuming study, but the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland has done some analysis for Cleveland.


View attachment 1653
It’s rather dry, but informative if you have interest in the subject.

How much here is a poverty factor vs cultural factor if any? Is there any influence of "ghetto culture", music, etc in these numbers? Or they are interconnected so it does not matter.

Are poor white vs poor black neighbourhoods experience same gun violence, is it a way to compare apples to apples?

Important to mention for your homicide statistics that around 90% are black-on-black killings, almost the same as white on white killings, around 80%.
 

HappyMan

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How much here is a poverty factor vs cultural factor if any? Is there any influence of "ghetto culture", music, etc in these numbers? Or they are interconnected so it does not matter.

Are poor white vs poor black neighbourhoods experience same gun violence, is it a way to compare apples to apples?

Important to mention for your homicide statistics that around 90% are black-on-black killings, almost the same as white on white killings, around 80%.
The article linked above contains the argument that income inequality is the greatest variable predicting homicide rates. In essence, those persons whom feel that they receive little respect from society as a whole react extremely to a lack of respect from an individual. A person feels the need to maintain a certain level of status, and when respect is the only form of status they have, they will do anything to protect it.

In the case of minorities in America, you can pile on to the low financial status a constant deluge of crappy stereotypes and racially motivated nastiness. I have known a lot of people who would give a higher status to a poor, indolent, and generally disagreeable white person than a well put together and gainfully employed black person.

I knew white people in my trailer park who beat their spouses and drunk drove on a regular basis, got in fist fights on their beer can covers lawn, but said they didn't want any black people coming around to ruin the neighborhood.
 

Nimbus

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How much here is a poverty factor vs cultural factor if any? Is there any influence of "ghetto culture", music, etc in these numbers? Or they are interconnected so it does not matter.

Are poor white vs poor black neighbourhoods experience same gun violence, is it a way to compare apples to apples?

Important to mention for your homicide statistics that around 90% are black-on-black killings, almost the same as white on white killings, around 80%.
Whatever culture urban African Americans have today is not genetic nor a product of Africa. It’s a result of two and a half centuries of slavery, a century of legal discrimination in the form of segregation a.k.a. apartheid, and six decades of mostly covert discrimination. This is a country where during WWII German prisoners often got better treatment than black U.S. soldiers.

The original chart that separates gun homicide in USA by race is reasonably accurate, but it is pushing for the wrong simplistic conclusion. The higher gun homicide rate among black people is a product of American history, culture, and system. America should be represented as a single bar on it.

America has several million African immigrants. They don’t have the so called ghetto culture, but they are still subject to the same covert racial discrimination. There is a study showing African immigrants earning much higher income than African Americans (because they generally have higher education), but still lower than white people on average.


I can’t find any study directly comparing poor black neighborhoods with white ones. Predominantly poor white neighborhoods are not common in USA.
 

waarmstrong

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America has plenty of white ghettos. By comparison, you are probably less likely to get shot or tagged by a stray bullet, but they are often shitty places to live in other ways.
 

harryopal

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The main difference might be that emerging from a "white ghetto" you can blend in anywhere and be treated as an acceptable human being. Emerging from a "black ghetto" you are still likely to be regarded with suspicion if not hostility by non black people, perhaps a minority (?), who nourish long standing racist and age old negative attitudes.
 

waarmstrong

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I think that's the main point of the Black Lives Matter protests and demonstrations.
 

centurion

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Whatever culture urban African Americans have today is not genetic nor a product of Africa. It’s a result of two and a half centuries of slavery, a century of legal discrimination in the form of segregation a.k.a. apartheid, and six decades of mostly covert discrimination. This is a country where during WWII German prisoners often got better treatment than black U.S. soldiers.

The original chart that separates gun homicide in USA by race is reasonably accurate, but it is pushing for the wrong simplistic conclusion. The higher gun homicide rate among black people is a product of American history, culture, and system. America should be represented as a single bar on it.

America has several million African immigrants. They don’t have the so called ghetto culture, but they are still subject to the same covert racial discrimination. There is a study showing African immigrants earning much higher income than African Americans (because they generally have higher education), but still lower than white people on average.


I can’t find any study directly comparing poor black neighborhoods with white ones. Predominantly poor white neighborhoods are not common in USA.
I did not ask culture in general, but the influence of culture in the poor neighbourhood "aka ghetto subculture", trough hip-hop music and similar, as part of socio-economic influence as the role-model for young people and influence on crime rate-if this contributes at all. As you live in the US you have some first-hand observations. I did not mention any genetics.

Mainstream Black culture developed and thrived even under hard conditions, as seen from music-jazz and art. Simplified, the US black culture destroyed the Soviet Union and the communism. From black gospel singing came out jazz, from jazz came rock music, and rock musick destroyed the communism as it was simply cooler. And one Basquiat paintings go for more than 100 million USD.
 

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