Dual Citizen Help

[kukis]

Hi I’m an Indonesian-Canadian dual citizen, born in Indonesia but grew up in both countries, went back and forth throughout my childhood and studies.
Long story short I moved back to Indonesia about 8 years ago and I permanently live in Indonesia now but would like to visit Canada again someday.
My citizenship certificate and expired Canadian passport is lost (confiscated by parents who possibly got rid of them).

Now here’s my dilemma:
1. If I apply to renew my Canadian passport in the Embassy of Canada in Jakarta, will they report me to immigration and take away my Indonesian citizenship? (I’m super paranoid about this)
2. Can I apply for Canadian visa on my Indonesian passport to enter Canada although I’m a citizen? Because renewing my Canadian passport and switching passports at the airport just seems too risky and problematic.

I‘ve been mulling over this for the longest time, I appreciate any insights on this to clear my head, thank you.

 

[snpark]

Afaik dual citizenship not allowed

 

[snpark]

Easiest seems to be get a new 10 year indonesian e passport

Then apply for a Canadian tourist visa

Then maybe once you are in Canada you can apply there for a new passport and say you lost the old one ?
But I think not allowed. And indonesian can and will check if you have dual nationality

 

[slowmoguy]

Are you below 21 kukis? Dual citizenship is allowed until the age of 21 (let's say 18+3) below that age, you have the right to enter both countries. But I guess you know it already.

 

[ilovered]

1. How old are you?
2. Did your parents bother to take care of your Indonesian nationality at all? Back to no: 1. The dual nationality privilege was only for kids with mixed nationalities parents who was born after August 2006. Before that, those kids were automatically non Indonesian if their fathers were of foreign nationals.

 

[SamR]

Yes. As others have said you need to give more information especially about whether you're above 21 or not. I'm assuming here the situation is that you have gotten a Canadian passport and whether above 21 or not, this has not been reported to the Indonesian Embassy in Canada.

I'll try to answer what you have asked just based on my experience as an Ex-WNI though my experience was with the Aussie Embassy rather than the Canadian Embassy.

1. If I apply to renew my Canadian passport in the Embassy of Canada in Jakarta, will they report me to immigration and take away my Indonesian citizenship? (I’m super paranoid about this)

You may be asked whether or not you still have an Indonesian Passport during the face-to-face interview. I would not know whether they will report you to Immigration or not if you were to disclose that you still have an Indonesian Passport.

It's likely the Canadian Embassy will have some kind of record that you are a Canadian citizen.

2. Can I apply for Canadian visa on my Indonesian passport to enter Canada although I’m a citizen? Because renewing my Canadian passport and switching passports at the airport just seems too risky and problematic.

You'll have to ask the Canadian Embassy that. But I would assume it would be difficult not to reveal your situation if the Canadian Embassy finds that you're a citizen and asks why are you doing this.

 

[snpark]

I think from the OP it's obvious he's over 21

 

[centurion]

If you held Canadian citizenship before, as per your story, you are technically not Indonesian citizen anymore.

 

[snpark]

Unless you were under 21

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Well if you have been living in Indonesia for 8 years with an Indonesian passport, and the Canadian one is lost or stolen, then in the eyes of the Indonesian authorities you are an Indonesian citizen with no other nationality. You have the RIGHT to apply for a new Canadian passport, but if you do so you would technically lose the Indonesian one. So it would be better just to visit Canada on a tourist visa instead.
Many people with Indonesian passports have the right to get a passport of another country, but it only becomes a problem if they actually exercise that right, which under Indonesian rules is not allowed.

 

[kukis]

Hello everyone thanks for your thoughtful responses.
To answer the question regarding my age, I was under 21 when I moved back to Indonesia and lost my Canadian passport, I am currently over 21 with the 10-year Indonesian e-Passport.
It seems my best option is to not renew my Canadian passport in Indonesia as it might alert the immigration of my dual citizenship. I would hope that applying for tourist Canadian visa would work but it might be an issue with the embassy and entering Canada as a citizen without Canadian passport (attached screenshot), so now I’m lost for what my best option would be if I were to visit Canada again.

 

[Hawk256]

Hello everyone thanks for your thoughtful responses.
To answer the question regarding my age, I was under 21 when I moved back to Indonesia and lost my Canadian passport, I am currently over 21 with the 10-year Indonesian e-Passport.
It seems my best option is to not renew my Canadian passport in Indonesia as it might alert the immigration of my dual citizenship. I would hope that applying for tourist Canadian visa would work but it might be an issue with the embassy and entering Canada as a citizen without Canadian passport (attached screenshot), so now I’m lost for what my best option would be if I were to visit Canada again.

There really isn't a best option when you are operating outside the established rules. Even if something worked for someone else, that doesn't mean that it would work for you. At this point it appears that neither one knows about the other, so at least you have that going for you. No matter which step you take next, it could be the wrong one. That is just the price of admisson for things like this. Since you were young when you moved, there is a possiblitlty that claiming ignorace of the rules could keep you out of big problems but it does appear that sooner or later you will need to make a choice.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Why would Canada have a problem with you entering on a tourist visa? I guess on the visa application you can mention that you used to be a Canadian passport holder. I think you are required to include the previous passport number anyway,

 

[SamR]

Hello everyone thanks for your thoughtful responses.
To answer the question regarding my age, I was under 21 when I moved back to Indonesia and lost my Canadian passport, I am currently over 21 with the 10-year Indonesian e-Passport.
It seems my best option is to not renew my Canadian passport in Indonesia as it might alert the immigration of my dual citizenship. I would hope that applying for tourist Canadian visa would work but it might be an issue with the embassy and entering Canada as a citizen without Canadian passport (attached screenshot), so now I’m lost for what my best option would be if I were to visit Canada again.

It seems that you have fallen through a crack in the system, you're probably safe where you are at now, but the price for that is that anything Canada-related is off the agenda.

The only "loose end" in this situation, IMO, is that even though you don't hold a Canadian passport, you are a Canadian citizen even though Indonesia doesn't recognize dual citizenship and in all likelihood the Canadian Government has your name on their records (passport, citizenship certificate). I want to ask whether you've considered renouncing the Canadian citizenship if only to tie up any loose ends but the process will almost certainly involve going to the Canadian Embassy and disclosing your situation.

 

[centurion]

Unless you were under 21

Partially thrue. Unless you were under 21 and if you had dual citizenship certificate.

 

[centurion]

Well if you have been living in Indonesia for 8 years with an Indonesian passport, and the Canadian one is lost or stolen, then in the eyes of the Indonesian authorities you are an Indonesian citizen with no other nationality. You have the RIGHT to apply for a new Canadian passport, but if you do so you would technically lose the Indonesian one. So it would be better just to visit Canada on a tourist visa instead.
Many people with Indonesian passports have the right to get a passport of another country, but it only becomes a problem if they actually exercise that right, which under Indonesian rules is not allowed.

In the eyes of Indonesian state you are not Indonesian citizen anymore. Passport is just a travel document, and losing a passport is not same as losing a citizenship.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

In the eyes of Indonesian state you are not Indonesian citizen anymore. Passport is just a travel document, and losing a passport is not same as losing a citizenship.

Well, yes and no. Technically speaking this may be correct, but in practical terms the passport is the only document that shows your citizenship of a particular country. As soon as he applies for a Canadian passport again, his Indonesian citizenship becomes invalid. But if he never does so, he can continue to be Indonesian indefinitely.

As an example, I know someone who was caught with both a US and Indonesian passport at CGK. He had mixed parents, from before the time of the dual citizenship law for kids. What happened was that as well as a big fine (150jt) he was forced to "give up" the US passport so that he could keep his Indonesian one. When I say "give up", he did not do a formal renunciation of it, but he had to destroy it or hand it over to the Indonesian authorities (I can't remember exactly), and now he is fully Indonesian, with KTP, passport etc.

So the OP is currently considered Indonesian by the Indonesian state, and the only way this status will be changed will be if they find evidence that he holds citizenship of Canada, and the only way this could happen is if he applies for a Canadian passport. And even to get a Canadian passport he would have to prove to them that he has the right to it, which is not easy if some documents are missing.

 

[ayakachan]

I'm a Canadian citizen with children who are dual Indonesian- Canadian citizens I went through the process here in Jakarta of obtaining Canadian citizenship for my kids since they are born here.

One thing to know OP, Canada has strict rules about protecting your privacy. They will never inform nor will they give any details to Indonesian authorities if they request it without your permission. That said,you can easily claim back ypur Canadian citizenship if your parents denounced it. If not, you can obtain a copy of your citizenship certificate from IRCC and with that you can apply for a Canadian passport here in Indonesia with that document. If you lost the passport / citizenship certificate, you have to explain it in the form. The embassy staff is very helpful and will guide you step by step.

The only thing you should decide is whether or not you want to continue to be Indonesian citizen. If not,you can denounce it and live in Indonesia in other ways such as spouse or relative sponsorship. Canada allows dual nationality. In my case, I have informed Indonesian authorities and my kids will automatically lose Indonesian citizenship in the near future. It doesn't matter for them because we plan to move back soon and plan to stay there. Should they change their minds in the future,they can apply as foreigners to live here as ex-win. New 5 and 10 years kitas is now available for foreigners who wish to live here.

 

[kukis]

I'm a Canadian citizen with children who are dual Indonesian- Canadian citizens I went through the process here in Jakarta of obtaining Canadian citizenship for my kids since they are born here.

One thing to know OP, Canada has strict rules about protecting your privacy. They will never inform nor will they give any details to Indonesian authorities if they request it without your permission. That said,you can easily claim back ypur Canadian citizenship if your parents denounced it. If not, you can obtain a copy of your citizenship certificate from IRCC and with that you can apply for a Canadian passport here in Indonesia with that document. If you lost the passport / citizenship certificate, you have to explain it in the form. The embassy staff is very helpful and will guide you step by step.

The only thing you should decide is whether or not you want to continue to be Indonesian citizen. If not,you can denounce it and live in Indonesia in other ways such as spouse or relative sponsorship. Canada allows dual nationality. In my case, I have informed Indonesian authorities and my kids will automatically lose Indonesian citizenship in the near future. It doesn't matter for them because we plan to move back soon and plan to stay there. Should they change their minds in the future,they can apply as foreigners to live here as ex-win. New 5 and 10 years kitas is now available for foreigners who wish to live here.

Hi ayakachan thank you for sharing your experience as a Canadian citizen it’s very informative.
It’s reassuring to know if the Canada embassy protects the privacy of their citizens and would avoid reporting me to local authorities for my dual citizenship status.
Currently, I am married with a baby otw in Indonesia, I don’t have plans to move back to Canada in the near future, therefore I would like to keep my Indonesian citizenship.
If I had to choose between denouncing my Indonesian and Canadian citizenship, I would have to choose Canada because my family and work is currently in Indonesia.
However, I would love visit Canada with my family someday as I miss it dearly, and I’m still open to the possibility of moving back there maybe in 15+ years from now for my children to live and study there.

 

[ayakachan]

Hi ayakachan thank you for sharing your experience as a Canadian citizen it’s very informative.
It’s reassuring to know if the Canada embassy protects the privacy of their citizens and would avoid reporting me to local authorities for my dual citizenship status.
Currently, I am married with a baby otw in Indonesia, I don’t have plans to move back to Canada in the near future, therefore I would like to keep my Indonesian citizenship.
If I had to choose between denouncing my Indonesian and Canadian citizenship, I would have to choose Canada because my family and work is currently in Indonesia.
However, I would love visit Canada with my family someday as I miss it dearly, and I’m still open to the possibility of moving back there maybe in 15+ years from now for my children to live and study there.

If you have renounced your Canadian citizen, then you can apply for a Canadian visa with your Indonesian passport. Getting the visa is not automatic, you must proove to them that you will return back.

Congratulations on your marriage and your pregnancy! Canadian government can't provide your future children with Canadian citizenship if you denounced yours now. If you didn't as I understand, then you have to complete the process of denouncing it with the Canadian Embassy, then you can apply for a tourist visa. Otherwise, they will consider you as a Canadian citizen and will ask you to renew and use your Canadian passport to travel there.

Please note that, if you are a citizen of Canada and you have a child outside Canada, your child becomes a citizen but you need to apply for the child's citizenship certificate.

If your parents were not born in Canada just like you and you have a child outside Canada, your child will not be able to pass the citizenship to his or her children unless that child is born in Canada. And if you renounce your citizenship, your child will lose that right as well.

For example, if one of my children who was born in Indonesia decides to have a baby in Indonesia in the future, that baby will not be able to get Canadian citizenship because she and I were not born in Canada. Citizenship doesn't pass to third generation unless the child is born in Canada and have at least one Canadian parent.