Discussion about expat salaries and perks as English teacher in Indonesia

[Bad_azz]

Not sure why/where you disagree balifrog. Perhaps you could enlighten me.
A school offering 33 jt a month for a teacher here, is not comparable to a foreign company bringing in one of their employees on a relocation package- obviously it depends on the company but it usually includes compensation, housing, staff, schooling and other perks if the employee is smart enough to get what they are 'worth'.

 

[Balifrog]

Not sure why/where you disagree balifrog. Perhaps you could enlighten me.
A school offering 33 jt a month for a teacher here, is not comparable to a foreign company bringing in one of their employees on a relocation package- obviously it depends on the company but it usually includes compensation, housing, staff, schooling and other perks if the employee is smart enough to get what they are 'worth'.

Well, we come back to what I posted

"When I got my French pension (at 61) I was working in Malaysia. The local manager (expat) offered.me to continue to work for them on a local contract at about 40% of my previous salary. You can guess my answer....."

Those people considered that, me receiving already a pension, I would accept a local contract lowering my "expat" salary by 60%.
I gently explained them that if my skills last month were valued 100 there is no way I am to give them those skills for 40.
And I rejected the offer. (From memory it was 2.000 $)
If today a local Bali company offers me a job (and if I was still 60 and skilled) I would not take it at that price.
Not being arrogant, but I value myself more than that.

Now there is a difference between teaching and managing a workshop or plant with 20 people, managing the technical, purchasing, subcons, stock management, finance, and H.R. aspects.

Indeed we are comparing apples to oranges.

Now compare a English reacher salary here and in HKG :

Teach English in Hong Kong: A Beginner's Guide 2024 | TEFL Org

Teaching English experience, Average salaries, cost of living, TEFL qualification Find out more about teaching English in Hong Kong

www.tefl.org

• Expect an average monthly range of HK$30,000 - $62,000 (approximately $3,600 - $8,000/£3,024 - £6,720). Public schools offer stability with salaries between HK$25,000 - $70,000, while private language schools tend to be in the HK$18,000 - $25,000 range. International schools top the chart, with salaries reaching HK$30,000 - $80,000, but competition is higher."

Of course the cost of living is higher in HK, specially for lodging.

 

[Bad_azz]

Well, we come back to what I posted

"When I got my French pension (at 61) I was working in Malaysia. The local manager (expat) offered.me to continue to work for them on a local contract at about 40% of my previous salary. You can guess my answer....."

Those people considered that, me receiving already a pension, I would accept a local contract lowering my "expat" salary by 60%.
I gently explained them that if my skills last month were valued 100 there is no way I am to give them those skills for 40.
And I rejected the offer. (From memory it was 2.000 $)
If today a local Bali company offers me a job (and if I was still 60 and skilled) I would not take it at that price.
Not being arrogant, but I value myself more than that.

Now there is a difference between teaching and managing a workshop or plant with 20 people, managing the technical, purchasing, subcons, stock management, finance, and H.R. aspects.

Indeed we are comparing apples to oranges.

Now compare a English reacher salary here and in HKG :

Teach English in Hong Kong: A Beginner's Guide 2024 | TEFL Org

Teaching English experience, Average salaries, cost of living, TEFL qualification Find out more about teaching English in Hong Kong

www.tefl.org

• Expect an average monthly range of HK$30,000 - $62,000 (approximately $3,600 - $8,000/£3,024 - £6,720). Public schools offer stability with salaries between HK$25,000 - $70,000, while private language schools tend to be in the HK$18,000 - $25,000 range. International schools top the chart, with salaries reaching HK$30,000 - $80,000, but competition is higher."

Of course the cost of living is higher in HK, specially for lodging.

I don't think anyone can argue that teaching here , in any respect is well paid. I can only imagine that those who come here on the full package from another country have other needs to satisfy too, such as a desire to travel , a sense of adventure or a desire to escape the place they are already in.
I don't think compensation for teachers can compare with engineering and construction jobs. It never really has, to my knowledge.
& yes, I can completely agree with you re being offered the 60% pay cut- I would have reacted in the same way.
Edit- I don't know a whole lot about engineering pay other than my ex who would pay in taxes each month what I earnt in salary.

 

[Balifrog]

I can only imagine that those who come here on the full package from another country have other needs to satisfy too, such as a desire to travel , a sense of adventure or a desire to escape the place they are already in.

I simply liked to travel (I had travelled the world during my 7 y in the Navy), live in exotic sunny places, exotic women, and being well paid.
Never in any place I worked, I decided "I want to live here". It was always a temporary posting. And "falling in love" is not a good reason...
Anyway it was the Cie that decided where I went and for how long.
Bali is the only place where I think "ok, I am settling down here till the end". But hey, I am 71 and tired of travelling, specially as air travel is becoming more and more a pain in the a*s !

 

[Bad_azz]

I simply liked to travel (I had travelled the world during my 7 y in the Navy), live in exotic sunny places, exotic women, and being well paid.
Never in any place I worked, I decided "I want to live here". It was always a temporary posting. And "falling in love" is not a good reason...
Anyway it was the Cie that decided where I went and for how long.
Bali is the only place where I think "ok, I am settling down here till the end". But hey, I am 71 and tired of travelling, specially as air travel is becoming more and more a pain in the a*s !

I have no will, nor motivation to fly anywhere these days either.

 

[pantaiema]

Being relocated by a foreign employer is absolutely irrelevant to the discussion though. That is comparing apples with turnips.

It depends on individual circumstances. Someone might seek a temporary change, sandy beaches, warm weather, and a pleasant atmosphere. They could have historical or family ties and be looking for someone to fund it. For ex- Indonesians they might be working for family business. So there are a lot of possibilities.

Someone being re-located is not going to be looking at the job market here are they, they will have nego'ed a fabulous package from their employer.

This makes sense. However, someone might accept a pay cut if they have other interests, like those mentioned above, as long as their needs are met. Additionally, the cost of living might be significantly lower. Another possibility their jobs are in danger of rationalisation, restructuring due to the supply/demand on the countries they come from. Working at the same company, there's nothing stopping them from returning to their company in the country of origin as long as a position is available for them in the future.

 

[pantaiema]

Looking into Indonesia's 2024 minimum wage highlights another reason why $24,000 a year is sufficient for a comfortable lifestyle there. Additionally, several reports indicate that teachers in Indonesia (non expat), particularly those on non-permanent contracts, often earn around the minimum wage level.

Minimum Wage in Indonesia - Indonesia Guide | Doing Business in Indonesia

Indonesia's minimum wages vary by region and sector, reflecting local economic conditions and promoting fair income standards. Our guide provides a comprehensive outlook.

www.aseanbriefing.com

 

[Balifrog]

Looking into Indonesia's 2024 minimum wage highlights another reason why $24,000 a year is sufficient for a comfortable lifestyle there. Additionally, several reports indicate that teachers in Indonesia (non expat), particularly those on non-permanent contracts, often earn around the minimum wage level.

Minimum Wage in Indonesia - Indonesia Guide | Doing Business in Indonesia

Indonesia's minimum wages vary by region and sector, reflecting local economic conditions and promoting fair income standards. Our guide provides a comprehensive outlook.

www.aseanbriefing.com

24.000 US, ii.e. 22.000 Euro : 12 = 1.800 Euro / month (30 m IDR) is our monthly budget, including rent and the Missus' pocket money.
We live OK, French way, and at our age (71 / 54) I guess we could use the word "confortable".
But sure would not have been enough when I was 50 years old and way more "adventurous"...
But again, I know people around me (retired) who live on much less, and people who live on much more.

 

[Balifrog]

One more detail : I am speaking about the monthly budget, not my monthly income !
If your monthly budget = monthly income, you have no margin for unexpected expenses, and there always are.
My rule : Monthly budget should not be more than 70% of monthly income !
Otherwhile you live hand to mouth.....

 

[Samoerai]

0.3X + 0.7X = 1.0X

 

[HappyMan]

$1,000 or 15jt a month is about what you can expect to make in one of the language schools these days, at least in Bandung. I think that when it comes down to it, people are not willing to leave the country that they live in to go and work for less than half of what they could make in a fast food restaurant. IPhones cost more or less the same wherever you are. Same for lots of other things that westerners are accustomed to consuming. 10 bucks for a pitcher of beer seems cheap until you realize you will make 34 bucks a day.

Some of us, like myself, just find ourselves with few options that would make more money and little ability to move on. We got married here or had kids, and never had a teaching qualification beforehand. Now we have a choice between going back to our home country and seeing how well two people can do on minimum wage, or staying here and making $1,000 a month work. So, we do.
The language schools have us stuck and they know it. The problem is, they think they can get other people to buy into the same scheme when those people don't have to. They seem to think that they can find a person of their chosen age and qualification who will be willing to leave their home country to come and work for this amount of money.

The people who are willing to come here for that amount of pay aren't coming here to pursue a career. They aren't going to stay for years and hone their teaching skills. They are here for a year, just passing through, because they want to see what it looks like to live in Indonesia. Even then, why should they come here and work for that amount when they can go to other Asian countries and get paid twice as much?
The company I work for has been telling us about how they're looking for more teachers the last 3 years. They have had zero takers. And, they're going to be losing 75% of their current workforce in the next year as people move on to other things. Meanwhile, I have been confidently told that my hourly wage is a quarter of the cost that our clients for pay me to teach them...

 

[Balifrog]

Now we have a choice between going back to our home country and seeing how well two people can do on minimum wage, or staying here and making $1,000 a month work.

Or finding a REAL job in your country ?

BTW, HKG used to provide good salaries for teachers with the proper qualification.

I "fell in love" when I was 33 and worked in South Korea. But it was way too young to marry, and I put my career first.
Without regret.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

An hourly wage at 1/4 of gross revenues is not that remarkable. There are people in professional services firms earning $600 per month and their time billed at $600 per day. So they're earning 1\20th.

 

[HappyMan]

An hourly wage at 1/4 of gross revenues is not that remarkable. There are people in professional services firms earning $600 per month and their time billed at $600 per day. So they're earning 1\20th.

That's interesting. Not saying that I necessarily know what you are referencing, but I get the idea. You are paying an accounting firm based off of the name above the door and all of the work gets done by an intern. The name above the door gets the cake and she gets the crumbs.
I do see some similarities, but we pretty much are the product. Of course, the customers pay more to have a trusted name stamped on that product... but our work is not done in a back office and then passed up and down the ranks before being delivered under someone else's name. If the customer doesn't see my face they won't pay the amount charged for me. Sure, they could replace my face with another, but as I mentioned, they are having difficulty finding someone who wants to do it for the price.
You can think of us more as the team and less as the mascot or the masseuse. Of course, I am aware that the local team is getting paid a lot less. However, their tickets are also not selling for the same prices.
I guess it comes down to just not being able to get the people their customers want for the amount that they pay... and the customers scratching their heads because they thought they were already paying an arm and a leg...

 

[pantaiema]

An hourly wage at 1/4 of gross revenues is not that remarkable. There are people in professional services firms earning $600 per month and their time billed at $600 per day. So they're earning 1\20th.

It is common for companies, especially in service industries and consultancies, even in developed countries to charge clients a higher hourly rate than what they pay their own employees. This is because companies must invest in training, allowances, insurance, and other benefits, especially for permanent staff, which aren't directly reflected in employees' hourly or monthly wages. Also other staff, manager, director, admin statff are getting involved in checking up the work, etc. This margin is how businesses and consultants generate a profit and keep running the business

However, charging clients a daily rate of USD 600 while paying employees only USD 600 per month, a 30x difference ???? , This is extreme and exorbitant mark up, usually only seen in corrupt environments, countries.

 

[Samoerai]

It is common for companies, especially in service industries and consultancies, even in developed countries to charge clients a higher hourly rate than what they pay their own employees. This is because companies must invest in training, allowances, insurance, and other benefits, especially for permanent staff, which aren't directly reflected in employees' hourly or monthly wages. Also other staff, manager, director, admin statff are getting involved in checking up the work, etc. This margin is how businesses and consultants generate a profit and keep running the business

However, charging clients a daily rate of USD 600 while paying employees only USD 600 per month, a 30x difference ???? , This is extreme and usually only seen in corrupt environments, countries. Exorbitantly marking up service prices is often a primary source of corruption.

Well, here they pay employees 5 juta per month. That's how the owners of those companies get rich ... and on top of that ... don't pay tax .. having shell companies on those islands.