Covid Testing

fastpitch17

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I don't think closing the country and economy for 2 years plus all the alcohol sales tax etc is money making?
My favourite bar makes 5b a month usually. What's the alcohol tax on that for 2 years. That's just 1 bar!
Aah, so, you couldn't get a drink so the nation should suffer medically. Not to worry, you could have gotten a bottle or 10 via ordering on line. You just wouldn't have had a bartender to spill your sob stories to. You are so inventive so why didn't you have some kind of Zoom drinking gathering. All the social interaction you could muster I'm sure.
 

snpark

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Aah, so, you couldn't get a drink so the nation should suffer medically. Not to worry, you could have gotten a bottle or 10 via ordering on line. You just wouldn't have had a bartender to spill your sob stories to. You are so inventive so why didn't you have some kind of Zoom drinking gathering. All the social interaction you could muster I'm sure.
Huh?
You said this was all some big money making scam for the government?
I'm asking how you think they made money when the whole country and economy has been closed?
You really think sales of hand sanitizer replaced the revenue generated from alcohol sales for example?
Or tourism?
I don't understand your logic?
Please explain again
 

gemima

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Huh?
You said this was all some big money making scam for the government?
I'm asking how you think they made money when the whole country and economy has been closed?
You really think sales of hand sanitizer replaced the revenue generated from alcohol sales for example?
Or tourism?
I don't understand your logic?
Please explain again
Yeah - and the most important part here is - that bar, although just a bit of fun for Snpark is prob directly hiring about 20 people and who knows how many indirectly. This is multiplied all around the country in countless businesses. People need to work. Kids need to go to school.
If COVID was a money-making scam for hospitals/ the government it's a funny way to go about it in a land where there are lots of money-making scams.
The critique of not paying for testing - this is happening everywhere. Effectively by now everyone (excluding China) has either been vaccinated or made their own vaccine by having covid, so covid isn't the deadly killer it once was (it's dangerous if you are old/ vulnerable of course - but so is the flu).
 

snpark

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Yeah - and the most important part here is - that bar, although just a bit of fun for Snpark is prob directly hiring about 20 people and who knows how many indirectly. This is multiplied all around the country in countless businesses. People need to work. Kids need to go to school.
If COVID was a money-making scam for hospitals/ the government it's a funny way to go about it in a land where there are lots of money-making scams.

This bar employed 122 staff and half of them had to be laid off / furloughed during corona

Now imagine a group like H*l*w*ngs with 27 outlets and how much they must make / lost during 2 years and no wonder they were happy to open late every week and just pay 10-50jt every time

In fact it has long been "known" that almost 30% of the revenue for the Shandy-OhLala hotel came from their American restaurant in the basement cough cough.
Yes 30%. Imagine how many millions of $ that is in a year for a 5* hotel. No wonder they've never been able to close it for 16 years to paint over the murals and faces on the walls lol
 

Hawk256

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Health precautions for covid like wearing mask indoors, hand washing stations, and better testing and enforcing them has proven that they guard against the spread of flu also. 2 birds as they say. A no brainer.
Indonesia is still enforcing mask rules indoors at most places and using PL for most large locations. Every where I see has a place to wash hands. Much more strict than a lot of other countries. Testing is available to anyone that wants it. Are you saying the government should force testing and captive quarantine people?
 

fastpitch17

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Huh?
You said this was all some big money making scam for the government?
I'm asking how you think they made money when the whole country and economy has been closed?
You really think sales of hand sanitizer replaced the revenue generated from alcohol sales for example?
Or tourism?
I don't understand your logic?
Please explain again
You will have to show me where I said it was a big money making scam for the government. I said the government didn't do what was needed and people suffered for the sake of the economy. Sure, businesses closed but most it was short lived or ignored completely. Sure, shutting businesses was a step but it actually come later than it should have. Earlier would have saved more people.

Yeah, Indonesia keeps proclaiming they have everything under control. The same claim each time numbers shot up. They got some pats on the back for handling the economy during the biggest outbreaks but it was the WHO that claimed Indonesia's numbers were at least ten times what was being reported. Governments process was to not scare people. Killing them was OK evidently. Oh, that pat on the back that is still being advertised.

If employment and business was hurt so bad, why did the Tax Ministry announce this is a record setting year to collect taxes and the amounts collected.

You want to be pro business at all cost, be my guest. I am going to stick with being pro living with honest reporting of the dangers one faces. If the honest truth is out there people can take that and make better decisions on how they are going to spend their times. If they had known the truth most businesses would have been hurt just because more would have stayed away. Then, on the rebound there was the possibility of having even more living customers.
 

fastpitch17

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Indonesia is still enforcing mask rules indoors at most places and using PL for most large locations. Every where I see has a place to wash hands. Much more strict than a lot of other countries. Testing is available to anyone that wants it. Are you saying the government should force testing and captive quarantine people?
Like many and myself have posted here, the PL app is not being used at small or large businesses. I go to a mall and see many who have elected to not wear their mask. No one to enforce it since, if they were check it would have been at the door only.

Testing is available but it is not free and if you read my first post you would see I adressed that. Anyone that test positive at a medical facility or they suspect covid are told to self isolate for 10 days if not admitted to a hospital. The government didn't do much for contact tracing unless it was some official or wealthy individual's party or gathering. Now they do nothing.
 

centurion

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There was a tendency from the government to use the PL app for Chinese CCP-style way of controlling and tracing of the population.

Luckily not many complied and that project failed miserably.
 

MamangDudul

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I think Nicho was more referring to the money grab from the side of all the companys, businesses and organizations on the winning side of this situation. The governments had to bow down to this whole situation sooner or later.

Anyway, don't ask me to explain this, it's not my agenda and I don't care anymore anyway. Iam pretty relaxed by now, just let the people do what they do....
 
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fastpitch17

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There was a tendency from the government to use the PL app for Chinese CCP-style way of controlling and tracing of the population.

Luckily not many complied and that project failed miserably.
There may have been a tendency in some cities or reguons but the central government quickly put in place a regulation that no one besides the central government can implement any health protocols. They really drug their rear ends to put much of anything in place when it was most needed.
 

Jaime C

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Everyone at my kids new private school had to take a Covid test over the weekend. Over 200 students and staff, I believe. One student, and one teacher tested positive.
 

atlantis

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What's the alcohol tax on that for 2 years. That's just 1 bar!
That is IF the alcool they sell is RESMI, snpark. I wouldn't bet on it.

A HUGE part of the imported alkohol sold in Indonesia is anything but resmi. It is original but a close inspection of the bottle would give hints that it may be not tax paid. If the pita cukai is always on the bottle, it doesn't mean it is genuine and it isn't rare that it is counterfeited. And this sometimes without the owner of the bar/restaurant/hotel knowing that some/many/all of their stock is not resmi at all, despite having the look of it.

Most non legal alkohol enter Indonesia mostly through Batam and on to Tanjung Priok by whole containers, most often from neighboring Singapura and Malaysia, the pita cukai palsu gets attached while the containers seat in anonymous warehouses before their content being distributed all over the archipelago, often directly by official distributors or the countless website retailing alkohol at "cheap" price and preserving the identity of the seller. For local brands a locally printed pita cukai would be more than enough but most imported booze would get a higher printed quality pita cukai, often printed abroad and smuggled in Indonesia. Bea dan Cukai has seized in the past hundreds of thousands of such pita cukai representing a loss for the country of up to Rp 139.000 / pita cukai if the destination is a Golongan C bottle. And the seizure of such counterfeited pita cukai is just a "tetes" in a sea of counterfeited pita cukai which end on bottle consumed here.

For whoever knowing the real cost of a bottle of alkohol after legal tax and excises are paid, a quick look at the internet and all these websites selling miras and advertising that their bottles are all duty paid and original, it makes no doubt that this is b***s**t. Many, or to be more exact most, are selling non-ck stuff, with the internet offering the perfect selling platform to do so.

I was in the bar of a friend not long ago. I know well the owner and ask the permission to pass behind the bar to inspect his bottles. All the bottles obviously had a pita cukai (it probably doesn't even cost 10 perak per pita cukai to get it professionally printed by millions in China - have a look at this -) but most didn't have BPOM stickers with the BPOM number, name of importer, name of product, golongan, isian/net content of the bottle, komposisi/ingredients, name of producer). The owner knew that some of his bottle had "probably" (his word) a dubious origin, but he genuinely ignored that so many were definitely not legal despite purchasing them from official distributors. They simply abused his little knowledge on the topic while swearing that all was cool and perfectly knowing that real control are rare.

Anyway, I am not even sure that a simple petugas of the bea & cukai department really gives a s**t about it or is trained to recognize a legal stuff from a non legal one. Anytime a friend owning a bar/restaurant/resort get checked by the customs here (rare occurrence, most often routine check), and that I ask what they've checked, the answer is "documents only".

The BPOM sticker is a problem for smugglers. Basically there is too many mentions on it, all varying from one alkohol bottle to the other. The cost of counterfeiting it would probably be too high and the logistic to stick it to each bottle a pain in the bum. Smugglers do that for the money and limit the costs to what is visually essential for a bottle to feature behind a bar counter. And anyway, they get enough protection by paying who they have to pay to bother themselves with trivial details.

Sorry for the off topic. Each time I read about "the taxes on alkohol bringing so much money to the State" I can't refrain a smile. If you would compare it to any estimation of consumption of the country and the money it should bring, you would find out there is a really huge gap. It is widely accepted that close to three quarter of the alkohol consumed in Indonesia is just oplosan, where the government see no money (and people risk their life drinking it), and it was admitted by the then ketua of the asosiasi pengusaha tempat hiburan a few years ago that up to 95% of the alcool sold in legit places was not resmi. It doesn't leave that many money for the state coffers.

The system just make smugglers rich and K*P*L*A of each province who perfectly know who is trafficking, rich. The State? Not so, compared to what they could levy if they could clean it.
 

atlantis

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Does the fake sticker pass the UV lamp test?
I have tried and I would tell you that the high quality printed one do. I assume it is (one of) the reason why smugglers who deal with containers and containers of smuggled booze seek a printing in Cina.

As said earlier a Pita Cukai for a Golongan C bottle is worth Rp 139.000 / liter (therefore a bit over Rp 100K per btl if you consider that the average content of a bottle is 750ml). I have done a fair share of business with Cina in my former European life and was used to have all our marketing support stuff printed there to be sent along with our containers. A tiny fraction of these 100K per btl can be invested in printing high quality stuff. That is if you want to bother with it. The quality of what we were printing was impressive and the price a ridiculous fraction of what we would have paid home. And we weren't printing millions of stuff (nor we were printing anything illegal FTR).

So to me it doesn't come as a surprise that some counterfeited pita cukai can pass a simple UV lamp test. But to be honest, I am not sure that smugglers really give a dam and I've seen some grossly counterfeited pita cukai stuck on expensive booze, meaning the smugglers did not even bother to give them the appearance of genuine one (anyway the genuine one are not top quality either). It's not you or me who would smuggle containers of booze. It's people with the right dirty connections to avoid anyone coming with an UV lamp or whatever. The sell of non ck booze is done so openly that it is simply impossible that smugglers don't have paid protection at the highest levels.

But anyway, no need for an UV lamp test. If it's imported booze, it must have a BPOM sticker. If it's still sealed (ex: when delivered to you by a kurir after being purchased online) and doesn't have it? Then it's obviously non ck whatever type of pita cukai it has. That's where you can start if you want to assess if your home booze is legal or not. If bought in a proper shop, you have good chances it is because they wouldn't take the risk to pajang non ck stuff to be sold to buyers they don't know. But if bought in a proper shop, then you probably bought to a price 20% to 40% more expensive than online. If it's bought online I would almost be ready to tell you that I give you back the money you paid for it if it has a BPOM sticker. I certainly don't want to generalize and to say that all online sellers are involved in selling non ck stuff, but let's say that when I see a bottle of Jose Cuervo Especial or JW red sold at Rp 400K online by someone who is obviously at least a third hand (importer, distributor, retailer) then I smile.
 

snpark

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Yes we all know the approx real price for genuine stuff sold in Changi etc so no way you can be paying less than that for real. Let that be your starting point.
Anyone paying less than say 500rb for a normal absolut blue example surely cannot be expecting the real stuff
I don't buy online. These days there's many of the bottle shops etc in Malls. Red and white. 99. Vin+ etc.
Since they are shops and not bars I would presume they wouldn't risk as much as a nightclub. Selling to the general public in broad daylight an illegal bottle would be opening themselves up to all sorts of problems if it's fake and I die or get sick and I have a receipt and the empty bottle in my fridge.

But caveat emptor
 

Helpful Herbert

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If the label is fake does that mean the alcohol itself is fake, or has been tampered with? Presumably all the online sellers have not fully paid tax but is the alcohol they sell still the real stuff?
 

snpark

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Probably just diluted why bother making fake stuff. Just cut it 25% water
 

atlantis

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If the label is fake does that mean the alcohol itself is fake, or has been tampered with? Presumably all the online sellers have not fully paid tax but is the alcohol they sell still the real stuff?
If you buy online, say from an official store on toped, I guess that you can expect un-tampered with, genuine booze. But that's just a guess to be honest. However since I have been involved in the F&B business here for quite a few years and that alkohol is one of the product we have to deal with on a daily basis, you can perhaps consider it an educated guess. Many of these online shop belong in one way or another to distributors and importers so they don't need to counterfeit the content. They have more than enough of the genuine one anyway and they just need pintu to sell their stuff. Messing with it by selling fake stuff wouldn't be smart. I would be more cautious with seller who just have a one page online and having a limited offer or from obviously many different sources.

The bottles I was referring to come most of the time from Singapore by whole container but just don't follow the legal jalur. They are illegally imported and the State makes none of the hundred of thousands they theoretically should make on each bottle, despite the consumer still paying a lot of money for a bottle. These bottles are all fast moving items and brands such as Bacardi, Absolut, Johnnie Walker, Jack Daniels, Chivas, Jose Cuervo, Grey Goose, Martell, Bombay Sapphire, Ballantines, Hendricks, Myers, Hennessy, Bayleys, Jameson, Cointreau, Glenlivet, Tanqueray, Kahlua, Remy Martin...dll. If a smuggler would specialize in Galliano, Benedictine D.O.M or Cachaca Sagatiba he'd better change job because it ain't what is selling fast. It's also the reason why these type of "rare" liquors are almost at the same price online than in legit shops, simply because both channel get them from the jalur resmi.

Counterfeited alkohol would definitely have a fake pita cukai, but it isn't as common compared to genuine alkohol with fake pita cukai. It is mostly an industri rumahan rather than something done on an industrial scale at the difference of smuggling.
Local brands such as Mansion House, Topi miring, Iceland, Newport...etc may be fake, as if the genuine one were already not awful enough. As a general rule, where you buy your booze should already give you hints of the type of risk you take. These local brands are often counterfeited by would be distillers in areas where it's difficult to get alkohol or areas where there is a strong demand for cheap shit like Bali or Lombok where there are tourists who are unsuspecting and just want to be badly pissed spending as less as possible.
Some international brand like Chivas or other well known one can be fake but I don't believe it's a large percentage of what is on the market. But anyway, the people who deal with this type of stuff are not really the people I am used to deal with.

In the case I highlighted, genuine alkohol with fake pita cukai, usually buyers won't complain, because they won't even know that the bottle they bought is not resmi, since these bottles are usually sold only slightly cheaper than the legal one.
 

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