Certification to get married 👩🏻‍🤝‍👨🏼

jstar

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Great idea again.

The coordinating Minister for Human Development and Culture (Muhadjir Effendy) plans a marriage certification program as a condition for marriage.

He gave an explanation to the Indonesian press, in which he told that every individual who wants to get married should get knowledge about ‘how to become a family’.

So then marriage certification will be applied to every couple which plans to get wed.

And here it comes: To get that marriage certification, the bride and groom will be required to attend pre-wedding classes. These will take 3 months. They would cover dangerous diseases, reproductive (?) health, malnutrition, etc. etc.

All this should start in 2020.

Great for @dafluff ’s to do list for RI.
 

gemima

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I do think this is a bit extreme, marriage courses in my home country (only required if you want to get married within certain religions) take a weekend and I have had friends who found them useful (questions about money management, about having children etc. brought up differences of opinion that the couples hadn't previously discussed). I'm not entirely against the idea of a certification course but how are they going to magic up a 3 month course, across the entire country in such a short space of time? Who is going to give the course (will it end up being run by religious institutions...?). Isn't 3 months a bit long? I hope the authorities prove me wrong but I dont see this being implemented in 2020 and I doubt the course will be 3 months long. Also, as a sensible adult I do think I should be allowed to marry whoever I want without needing a certificate...maybe they would be better served by focusing this at those most in need (such as in areas where child marriage is common, or by improving education in general).
 

nd_eric_77

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I wonder whether the classes will be able to be expedited for couples who have already mastered at least one certain aspect of "reproductive health".
 

Euc-

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I’m with gemina on this one. I got married this year and had to do a preparation course for the (Catholic) church. Some aspects were actually pretty interesting and from looking at the other couples (some of them just turned 18) I’m pretty sure it was a good learning experience for them as well. I know of at least one couple that broke up after the course because they never thought about certain things and couldn’t agree how to handle them.

Money management was a good one, other things like: its Christmas, with which family will you be spending the holidays if they live in different cities etc.
 

jstar

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Some thoughts:

Just like a (virgin) Catholic priest not having to tell me anything about reproduction, I strongly object to any stranger telling me how to manage money or who to visit at Christmas.

More serious: As we all know, in this society it will be a course / vision which is religiously tinted. And in the best case still with cultural attachments.

As useful as certain things might be, it will definitely not lower a divorce rate or so. If you see that in the US the divorce on average 7 years after the wedding takes place, and in Italy after 18 years, it does not seem to depend on preparation before the marriage.

I can understand to learn about certain aspects can make sense. Fine, then make a voluntary program. With money matters, care of infants, balance work/free time, ..... as possible subjects.
 

IndoTom

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I do think this is a bit extreme, marriage courses in my home country (only required if you want to get married within certain religions) take a weekend and I have had friends who found them useful (questions about money management, about having children etc. brought up differences of opinion that the couples hadn't previously discussed). I'm not entirely against the idea of a certification course but how are they going to magic up a 3 month course, across the entire country in such a short space of time? Who is going to give the course (will it end up being run by religious institutions...?). Isn't 3 months a bit long? I hope the authorities prove me wrong but I dont see this being implemented in 2020 and I doubt the course will be 3 months long. Also, as a sensible adult I do think I should be allowed to marry whoever I want without needing a certificate...maybe they would be better served by focusing this at those most in need (such as in areas where child marriage is common, or by improving education in general).
These ideas are coming from the same type of people such as the minister of religion who proposed to ban the required modest dress code in Islam.
 

Helpful Herbert

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They mentioned it would teach people about nutrition to reduce stunting. It's quite shocking what some parents feed their children in Indonesia, so if it was possible to educate people about nutrition that would be a great idea. Of course if the people doing the teaching believe that Indomie, fried snacks and sugar in everything constitutes a balanced diet, then it might not achieve its objective.

And also who would pay for this army of new teachers delivering training throughout the archipelago?
 

fastpitch17

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I think it is a fantastic idea. Attended a wedding last weekend. Female we knew, male came from an hour and half away. She came and told us she was getting married. Glory be. The week prior to that my wife had asked her if she had any men in her life. She told her no.

It ends up her aunt knew this family who had a son. She approached her parents and the next thing was she was getting married. The day before the wedding my wife asked the female how long she had known the guy? 3 weeks. How many times have you actually met him? 3 times when he came with friends. This girl is 28, he is 34. Wife asked, any chance you are in love. She said maybe. Yeah, right.

She was going to be married and have babies. The babies are the key thing. At the wedding I heard him swear to the officials that he would uphold his duties to provide for his family and take care of all their needs. That he would never harm his wife. OK, I thought. How many have sworn to this? I guess all but they still think they can beat their wives. I had to chuckle a bit about that provide for. He doesn't even have a job. No problem, she does. Her only oath was that she had to obey him.

Seen her today, told her that I have some yard work that I would be willing to pay him for and he could start earning some money. She called him, talked, then said he said that kind of work is too hard. Right away I figured who is going to be the wage earner in the family.

The first thing Women in Indonesia need to learn is that because there are more males than females, they have a better choice. They should also try to marry up. Maybe at least marry someone who can contribute to the financial security of the family.

I really never want to attend a Muslim Indonesian wedding ceremony again. Just go for some food.
 

jstar

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The food is the only thing that seems to attract people to wedding ceremonies here.

SMP: Sudah Makan Pulang
 
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IndoTom

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I think it is a fantastic idea. Attended a wedding last weekend. Female we knew, male came from an hour and half away. She came and told us she was getting married. Glory be. The week prior to that my wife had asked her if she had any men in her life. She told her no.

It ends up her aunt knew this family who had a son. She approached her parents and the next thing was she was getting married. The day before the wedding my wife asked the female how long she had known the guy? 3 weeks. How many times have you actually met him? 3 times when he came with friends. This girl is 28, he is 34. Wife asked, any chance you are in love. She said maybe. Yeah, right.

She was going to be married and have babies. The babies are the key thing. At the wedding I heard him swear to the officials that he would uphold his duties to provide for his family and take care of all their needs. That he would never harm his wife. OK, I thought. How many have sworn to this? I guess all but they still think they can beat their wives. I had to chuckle a bit about that provide for. He doesn't even have a job. No problem, she does. Her only oath was that she had to obey him.

Seen her today, told her that I have some yard work that I would be willing to pay him for and he could start earning some money. She called him, talked, then said he said that kind of work is too hard. Right away I figured who is going to be the wage earner in the family.

The first thing Women in Indonesia need to learn is that because there are more males than females, they have a better choice. They should also try to marry up. Maybe at least marry someone who can contribute to the financial security of the family.

I really never want to attend a Muslim Indonesian wedding ceremony again. Just go for some food.
The laziness is a indigenous stereotype trait not related to religion.
 

fastpitch17

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The laziness is a indigenous stereotype trait not related to religion.
Not quite true. From a young age they are taught to accept their ways and poverty as God's will. So why even attempt to change?
 

Minuteman

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When I married my first Indonesian Wife, we had to wait a few months. This was back in 1977. Reason was for her to have more time to think it over and be sure of her decision to marry a foreigner. Good advice if you ask me!
 

IndoTom

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Not quite true. From a young age they are taught to accept their ways and poverty as God's will. So why even attempt to change?
Go to Bali, a majority Hindu island. They are just as lazy in general maybe even more!
 

fastpitch17

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Go to Bali, a majority Hindu island. They are just as lazy in general maybe even more!
How would you know with all the Javanese that have relocated there? Those guys selling you a seat on the beach, the touts outside every temple and mal\pasar are majority Javanese and in all likelihood, these are the people you experience. Oh, maybe a bartender took too long getting you another beer. That could mean an entire society is lazy.
 

dafluff

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Great idea again.

The coordinating Minister for Human Development and Culture (Muhadjir Effendy) plans a marriage certification program as a condition for marriage.

He gave an explanation to the Indonesian press, in which he told that every individual who wants to get married should get knowledge about ‘how to become a family’.

So then marriage certification will be applied to every couple which plans to get wed.

And here it comes: To get that marriage certification, the bride and groom will be required to attend pre-wedding classes. These will take 3 months. They would cover dangerous diseases, reproductive (?) health, malnutrition, etc. etc.

All this should start in 2020.

Great for @dafluff ’s to do list for RI.
This definitely belongs in the "to do" list...hahaha....

It's always like this, new cabinet, new ministers, new ideas ranging from the pretty good to completely out of this world absurd.

Getting married legally in Indonesia is already a huge pain in the ass from a paperwork stand point even for locals, this just makes it worse. Also very thin on details i.e. who is teaching the course, who will pay for it, how about people living in remote areas etc etc.
 

waarmstrong

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I suspect Dafluff is on the mark; more "hot chicken shit" that quickly cools and is forgotten as other hair-brain ideas capture the press's attention.
 

IndoTom

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How would you know with all the Javanese that have relocated there? Those guys selling you a seat on the beach, the touts outside every temple and mal\pasar are majority Javanese and in all likelihood, these are the people you experience. Oh, maybe a bartender took too long getting you another beer. That could mean an entire society is lazy.
@fastpitch17. Just as a previous comment made the statement that all Muslims are lazy based on their experience given one example, I made a reciprocal statement indictating that the same laziness exists in other places outside Muslim majority areas of Indonesia. And no I didn't order a beer that took too long...
 

scouser59

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@fastpitch17. Just as a previous comment made the statement that all Muslims are lazy based on their experience given one example, I made a reciprocal statement indictating that the same laziness exists in other places outside Muslim majority areas of Indonesia. And no I didn't order a beer that took too long...
Rather a sweeping statement ,I know a number of people here of various faiths , who work like dogs for little pay .
 

harryopal

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The "laziness' matter reminds me of white people in the top end of Australia criticizing Aborigines for being lazy. "Look at the way they walk." (Slowly, more often.) This criticism mostly comes from people living in air conditioned homes, driving air conditioned cars to air conditioned offices and socializing in air conditioned pubs. Getting around in Bali I thank God I am not outside laboring in that hot sun.

This also reminds me of the criticism of Malays for the "Ta apa" attitude to life. The take it easy lifestyle has much to commend it as an alternative to getting on the ambition treadmill of long hours, great stress and stress related illnesses later in life.
 
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