Being Poor and Needing Medical Care In Indonesia

pantaiema

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Hospital will transfer once she pays the 2.5 juta and she said she was going there to pay Saturday afternoon. Surgery is scheduled for today, Sunday. We shall see how it all goes.
I wonder why she was asked to pay IDR2.5m is it common under the BPJS. AFAIK this should all be covered by BPJS (?)
 

Samoerai

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I wonder why she was asked to pay IDR2.5m is it common under the BPJS. AFAIK this should all be covered by BPJS (?)
BPJS is very slow in paying the bills of hospitals. Some hospitals therefore are not willing to treat new patients or asking for a downpayment first from patients.
 

fastpitch17

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I wonder why she was asked to pay IDR2.5m is it common under the BPJS. AFAIK this should all be covered by BPJS (?)
Because as I said, BPJS told her that she used it far to often so they didn't cover all now. Of course, she had many visits trying to get a diognosis and treatment for her son but just got pills from nurses and no doctor visits.
 

fastpitch17

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The surgery was finally completed. Resting comfortably. The surgery was to be performed on Saturday the 19th but then doc said no, no availability of operating rooms. Rescheduled to Wednesday the 23rd. On Tuesday was told by doctor that he had to change it to Saturday the 26 with no explanation given. Saturday the 26 it was finally completed. Mother now waiting for time of discharge to bring him home.

Being class 3 he is in a ward of 8 beds. Hardly enough room to move between beds. Have a curtain for each bed. No other furniture in the ward even though parents are allowed to stay in the rooms with their children. The 4 bed wards have one couch.

Once home we will see what they require for check ups.
 

fastpitch17

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Supposed to be released Friday, the 2nd. Hospital said he would need a wheel chair to leave and required a Rp300,000 for it's use.

While there isn't a damn thing I can do about anything here, it gets upset seeing and hearing about the so called medical services here.

He's been in the hosp for over 2 weeks. Not once has a sheet been changed. He is developing sore spots but none have broken open. In his ward, if patients need anything it is up to the families to take care of it. Things like bathing and exercising are left to the parents. There are no "help" buttons to push if care is needed. 8 to the ward, both children and adults. Children are being exposed to adults dying. Absolutely no basic sanitary care.

After kidney surgery or removal a patient should be up and walking with the aid of another. Walk every 2 hours or so. This boy has been up twice since the surgery. Mother has to lift and move him by hospital orders. Thus, the reason for the wheelchair. The doctor says he shouldn't walk because his back has weakness. For god's sake, that is why he should be up and walking. To strengthen the muscles in his lower back. Not to mention avoiding blood clots in the legs and the possibility of pneumonia setting in. After kidney open surgery, one is normally discharged in 3 to 4 days. It has been a week and the hospital won't let him go unless she pays for the wheelchair.

I would like to think that this boy is just a victim of a remote type of care. Unfortunately, from all I have heard from patients and their families, it would seem it is the norm. People say they don't want to go to hospitals because they are a place where you go to die. Maybe they are correct but don't realize that the sanitation practices and the type of care from the hospital just may be one of the reasons they die. So much for the value of maintaining human life.
 

Samoerai

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Supposed to be released Friday, the 2nd. Hospital said he would need a wheel chair to leave and required a Rp300,000 for it's use.

While there isn't a damn thing I can do about anything here, it gets upset seeing and hearing about the so called medical services here.

He's been in the hosp for over 2 weeks. Not once has a sheet been changed. He is developing sore spots but none have broken open. In his ward, if patients need anything it is up to the families to take care of it. Things like bathing and exercising are left to the parents. There are no "help" buttons to push if care is needed. 8 to the ward, both children and adults. Children are being exposed to adults dying. Absolutely no basic sanitary care.

After kidney surgery or removal a patient should be up and walking with the aid of another. Walk every 2 hours or so. This boy has been up twice since the surgery. Mother has to lift and move him by hospital orders. Thus, the reason for the wheelchair. The doctor says he shouldn't walk because his back has weakness. For god's sake, that is why he should be up and walking. To strengthen the muscles in his lower back. Not to mention avoiding blood clots in the legs and the possibility of pneumonia setting in. After kidney open surgery, one is normally discharged in 3 to 4 days. It has been a week and the hospital won't let him go unless she pays for the wheelchair.

I would like to think that this boy is just a victim of a remote type of care. Unfortunately, from all I have heard from patients and their families, it would seem it is the norm. People say they don't want to go to hospitals because they are a place where you go to die. Maybe they are correct but don't realize that the sanitation practices and the type of care from the hospital just may be one of the reasons they die. So much for the value of maintaining human life.
Medical care when one is covered by BPJS is as you decribed, that is what I have seen so far in hospitals. If one can afford an health care insurance like Allianz, Prudential, Manulife .. etc that is the wise thing to do.
 

MamangDudul

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Medical care when one is covered by BPJS is as you decribed, that is what I have seen so far in hospitals. If one can afford an health care insurance like Allianz, Prudential, Manulife .. etc that is the wise thing to do.
Again, I don't want to nag and I see that BPJS is far from perfect but I think it depends on a place. Let's be honest, Jakarta is the ibu kota but has way too many people and in some ways and some places the conditions can be terrible.

I usually also don't use it, but I had a situation last year where I was unconscious and fell down in the bathroom. Until now nobody knows what really happened, I guess I was just too tired from various activities. We went to the emergency, they took good care of me. Then they send me to see an expert at the hospital the other day. Even when I told him that it probably wasn't a big problem he sent me to another hospital (the most expensive one in Batam) and practically forced me to do a brainscan that resulted in nothing. All on the bill of BPJS to be clear again. Ok, maybe Batam has a higher standard an Iam a Bule, but they still wouldn't do anything that can't be done.

So either the BPJS situation has gotten worse over the last halt year (which would be no surprise for me, the bills stack up), they bend the rules or it depends on the place and they still bend the rules.

So yeah, however it is Iam sure we will see some changes to BPJS in the future, especially for people who can actually pay their own bills. There is a lot of talk in town but we know how fast and accurate things work here...

About the wheelchair, why doesn't someone just give her the 300,000? Talking isn't gonna help...
 

fastpitch17

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Again, I don't want to nag and I see that BPJS is far from perfect but I think it depends on a place. Let's be honest, Jakarta is the ibu kota but has way too many people and in some ways and some places the conditions can be terrible.

I usually also don't use it, but I had a situation last year where I was unconscious and fell down in the bathroom. Until now nobody knows what really happened, I guess I was just too tired from various activities. We went to the emergency, they took good care of me. Then they send me to see an expert at the hospital the other day. Even when I told him that it probably wasn't a big problem he sent me to another hospital (the most expensive one in Batam) and practically forced me to do a brainscan that resulted in nothing. All on the bill of BPJS to be clear again. Ok, maybe Batam has a higher standard an Iam a Bule, but they still wouldn't do anything that can't be done.

So either the BPJS situation has gotten worse over the last halt year (which would be no surprise for me, the bills stack up), they bend the rules or it depends on the place and they still bend the rules.

So yeah, however it is Iam sure we will see some changes to BPJS in the future, especially for people who can actually pay their own bills. There is a lot of talk in town but we know how fast and accurate things work here...

About the wheelchair, why doesn't someone just give her the 300,000? Talking isn't gonna help...
We are talking about the poorer individuals that are 3rd class BPJS. That is where I have seen and heard of the complete lack of professional care. I too had an emergency and that is exactly why I signed up for BPJS. In case if an emergency. I am class 1 and was taken care of. Still, I could not get the room I was qualified to get so the hospital basically said pay cash for an upgrade or wait. I was practically bleeding to death so wife thought it best to upgrade. Wasn't a big deal. I have heard this happening quite often. One doctor did try the guilt trip with how he is paid so much less with BPJS than if people were paying. I figured the amount he gave me based on the number if patients durring office hours and came up with a figure between 3 and 4 juta a day. That's pretty decent pay for this country. Sure, he does have to now see more patients.

Oh, as for the money she has been forced to pay. Don't worry about that. She works for good people and she is an excellent employee and a good mother.
 

pantaiema

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I would like to think that this boy is just a victim of a remote type of care. Unfortunately, from all I have heard from patients and their families, it would seem it is the norm. People say they don't want to go to hospitals because they are a place where you go to die. Maybe they are correct but don't realize that the sanitation practices and the type of care from the hospital just may be one of the reasons they die. So much for the value of maintaining human life.
Glad to hear this boy at least finally completed his surgery. The boy and mum are fighters.
I would not be picky about the hygiene an sanitation in the hospital, at least they get the operation done successfully. For some people out there, you are very lucky if even general practitioner could see you. Let alone stay in the hospital.
BPJS is still far from ideal. But at least it saves life.
 

fastpitch17

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Glad to hear this boy at least finally completed his surgery. The boy and mum are fighters.
I would not be picky about the hygiene an sanitation in the hospital, at least they get the operation done successfully. For some people out there, you are very lucky if even general practitioner could see you. Let alone stay in the hospital.
BPJS is still far from ideal. But at least it saves life.
Picky about hygene and sanitation? WTF. It's a hospital. Last time I checked hispitals have all kinds of crazy little bacteria flying around and getting in the things like clothes and skin. Where in the hell do you think infections come from. Evidently you do not care if someone goes into the hospital with one thing and come out with another. Sure, your operation was a success but you are dying of infection. No extra charge for the infection.

With the exception of some sterile labs, no where is it more important for the highest sterile technics than hospitals. No where. Hospitals are CARE facilities. Having a healthy environment in that facility is mandatory for CARE and protection of patients, employees, and visitors.
 

scouser59

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Bpjs is far from perfect , quality of service depends depends on population levels and where you live ,it seems to me .

Eg , south bali where I am ,within 30 minutes there are 7 hospitals with bpjs access , The class 1 major hospital Sanglah ,for bali Ntt etc ,is 40 minutes away . There are 3 other private hospitals , flash but with limited facilities ,all major incidents get transferred to sanglah .

Ya in the bpjs units ,quality of service ,cleanliness does not compare with developed countries ,but I knew that before arriving here , of course Iv seen much worse in Africa where many hospitals have nothing .

Bearing in mind what was here before bpjs ,no payment no service ,it is a great step ahead on the road to national healthcare .
 

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