Bali and Thailand becoming drug rehab havens.

[Vanhelsing]

Bali and Thailand – the preferred escape for Australians wanting cheap dental work and plastic surgery – has now become a destination for ice addicts wanting rehabilitation.

Seasons, Bali's largest facility in Umalas near Seminyak, is reportedly experiencing a similar trend while Sivana, the island's newest and smallest clinic set up by a Kiwi, has only had Australian clients.

The centres charge half, even three times less than private rehabilitation in Australia, which can reach costs of $30,000 a month. The Cabin charges $12,900 for its 28-day program while DARA costs $10,000 for four weeks.

"The cost is quite prohibitive in Australia and we see a lot of people travelling simply because of that," The Cabin's Cameron Brown said.

"The situation is untenable that parents and relatives are forced to expatriate their loved ones to an overseas jurisdiction to get what in effect is medical assistance," Mr Biondo said.

Full report http://www.smh.com.au/national/icea...nd-for-cheaper-treatment-20150717-giek7o.html

 

[kratos]

Oh wow
You can charge that much there ?

 

[Vanhelsing]

Oh wow
You can charge that much there ?

It's considerably less than what a lifetime of drug addiction would cost, I guess. Alternatively,you could put the amount toward a funeral.

 

[Davita]

If run by Indonesians then I would question the proficiency and veracity of the treatment compared to Australia. If run by Australians I would question the legality of them working in Indonesia.
We saw all this before with the advent of the many foreign naturopath and chiropractors who were forced to leave RI...and sadly, with some of their clients pre-paid treatment money.
Anyone contemplating using those facilities I suggest...... pay by installment after each segment of treatment...if satisfied.

 

[William King]

If run by Indonesians then I would question the proficiency and veracity of the treatment
.

Other than your own bigotries, why?

 

[Davita]

Other than your own bigotries, why?

Here...learn something...from 'The Conversation Newsletter'....

'Widodo’s tough approach does not only apply to drug traffickers. The Indonesian government, through its anti-drug agency, the National Narcotics Board (BNN), is pushing compulsory treatment for people with drug dependence. This coercive approach is jeopardising health gains made by existing harm reduction programs and is fertile ground for corruption and abuse.

BNN pledges to rehabilitate 100,000 drug users in 2015. They aim to double the numbers every year – to 200,000 in 2016 and 400,000 in the year after that.

But there aren’t enough problematic drug users in Indonesia to meet these targets. According to estimates by the Ministry of Health, Indonesia is home to about 74,000 injecting drug users. Only a fraction may choose drug treatment at any given time.

Some civil society groups working on the ground consider even this an overestimation. National Narcotics Board statistics claim a large number of crystal meth and cannabis users, but Indonesian academics argue these numbers have been derived using questionable methods.

There is a strong movement in Indonesia opposing the government’s tough approach. Activists in 15 cities in Indonesia last week joined a worldwide call for governments to end the counterproductive war on drugs.

Mandatory rehab = incarceration
Last year, seven government bodies in Indonesia, including BNN, the police, the Ministry of Health, and the Ministry of Social Affairs, signed a Memorandum of Understanding promoting rehabilitation for drug users. The memorandum appears to promote a more lenient approach to addressing drug use, calling for drug users to be “rehabilitated rather than incarcerated”.

But, in practice, BNN’s special drug eradication squad often seek out and forcibly detain suspected drug users; few people with drug dependence voluntarily choose treatment under the agency’s programs.

Indonesia currently has more than 400 addiction treatment facilities in hospitals, government narcotics clinics, and privately-run centres. But the country lacks formalised national best practice standards for addiction treatment. Options range from medical detox in hospitals and 12-step programs, to religious or spiritual centres that boast “curing” drug dependence using magic, prayer, beatings, and shackling drug users in cages with a ball and chain.

Most share the same goal: abstinence from drugs. And few independently evaluate the effectiveness of their programs.

To meet the 2015 target, the government is establishing additional drug rehabilitation centres inside 60 prisons and 30 police and military training academies.

It is hard to imagine how the substandard, overcrowded conditions and limited health facilities of existing prisons in Indonesia can address the nation’s drug woes. Critics claim sending people to rehabilitation centres in prison is simply another form of imprisonment or involuntary detention.

Corruption and abuse
When Indonesia amended its narcotics law in 2009, there was hope for a more balanced response to drugs. The revised law effectively decriminalised possession of small amounts of drugs for personal use by providing judges with the discretion to divert drug users to treatment programs instead of prison. But, in practice, the criminalisation of drug use continued.

Some authorities use the new legal provisions to extract heftier prices from well-off drug users, and downgrade the offence they were charged with. As of May 2015, 36% of prisoners in the country’s 427 overcrowded detention facilities are serving time for drug use.

Working together with the Indonesian Drug Users Network, I am documenting a host of coercive and abusive measures carried out by law enforcement in the name of rehabilitation.

Health workers in Jakarta have reported an increase in the number of drug raids since January 2015 in known drug-use hot spots, but also in apartment buildings, schools, and community health clinics.

We found cases of forced urine testing, corruption, extortion, intimidation, and confidentiality breaches. Officers photograph suspected drug users against their will. They offer money in exchange for snitching on friends and family members who may use drugs. They demand access to private client records at methadone substitution clinics and other organisations working with drug users.

The government should seriously reconsider this approach, as studies have shown that criminalisation and punitive law enforcement approaches can lead to higher drug-related criminality and increased risk of contracting HIV and hepatitis C, among other unintended social and economic costs.

Compulsory treatment is ineffective
Indonesia’s coercive measures are at odds with a broader tendency in Asia to move away from compulsory treatment and transition toward voluntary, scientifically and medically appropriate approaches to managing drug use.

Compulsory treatment and rehabilitation is costly and ineffective in addressing drug issues; relapse rates are high. There is no evidence that compulsory treatment leads to positive health outcomes among drug users or that it has any effect on drug use rates.

Instead, compulsory treatment in countries such as Cambodia, China, Malaysia, Myanmar, Philippines, Thailand and Vietnam has led to increased HIV risks, added stigma and discrimination against drug users, and human rights violations.

In July 2012, the United Nations issued a Joint Statement calling for the closure of compulsory drug detention and rehabilitation centres. They called governments to adopt “voluntary, evidence-informed and rights-based health and social services in the community”.

Alternatives to compulsory treatment
Harm reduction interventions such as needle syringe programs and methadone maintenance therapy are some of the world’s most effective and affordable treatments available. If President Widodo is serious about managing Indonesia’s drug problem, he should urgently scale up these proven strategies.

Methadone maintenance therapy reduces heroin use, HIV transmission, criminal activity and risk of drug-related death. The expansion of such programs in Indonesia has helped reduce HIV rates among injectors from 42% in 2011 to 36% in 2013, bringing thousands of drug users closer to health and support services.

Indonesia is also home to some of Asia’s most successful voluntary, community-based treatment programs for drug users. These include Rumah Cemara and Rumah Singgah PEKA, which are currently in the process of being documented as best practice treatment models by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC).

These and more than a dozen programs like them are based in non-government organisations, often run by former drug users and offering a menu of evidence-based harm reduction and treatment options from which clients can choose.

The outcome isn’t always abstinence from drugs, but an improvement in the client’s social function, overall health, productivity, reduction in risky drug use patterns, and personal goals.

From a public health perspective, drug use is best portrayed as existing on a spectrum from beneficial to problematic. The majority of people who try drugs or use them occasionally never develop dependence or problematic use patterns.

Leaders who want to support those dealing with drug dependence should listen to their needs and support them with strategies that work, rather than instituting policies that punish them."

 

[scouser59]

to religious or spiritual centres that boast “curing” drug dependence using magic, prayer, beatings, and shackling drug users in cages with a ball and chain.

Unbeleivable !

 

[dafluff]

If run by Indonesians then I would question the proficiency and veracity of the treatment compared to Australia. If run by Australians I would question the legality of them working in Indonesia.

If you had said "If run by the Indonesian government" I would've agreed with you. But even in the article you linked it says:

Indonesia is also home to some of Asia’s most successful voluntary, community-based treatment programs for drug users. These include Rumah Cemara and Rumah Singgah PEKA, which are currently in the process of being documented as best practice treatment models by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC).

Anyway, I very much doubt that if run by WNA's, that they are doing this with the correct legal framework, and that this article is published could be a big negative for them.

 

[William King]

Erm, Davita, try reading your own quote. "rehabilitation centres in prison"

A rehabilitation centre IN a prison is nothing like a rehab facility on the island of Bali. I'll pose the question again, why do you think Indonesians are not capable of running a $10,000 per month centre?

 

[Davita]

Erm, Davita, try reading your own quote. "rehabilitation centres in prison"

A rehabilitation centre IN a prison is nothing like a rehab facility on the island of Bali. I'll pose the question again, why do you think Indonesians are not capable of running a $10,000 per month centre?

You need to read my posts and not jump to conclusions just because of your own bias....I said...."I would question the proficiency and veracity of the treatment compared to Australia."
Who owns and operates facilities like 'Seasons' in Bali and where are the therapists trained....would be the questions I would ask.

The link does not only refer to drug addicts in prison but is a more general overview of the traditional remedies which are now disputed. Many NGO's are attempting to influence a new attitude to drug rehabilitation within Indonesia but some Indonesians are clearly entrenched in old ideas.

 

[steveandpenny]

Having a little experience with addiction and rehab facilities, both though myself and with love ones . I find some of your comment disgusting. Private rehabs (which what this tread is about)for both alchol and drug abuse are big bussiness both in the United States and around the world. The success rate over long term is only around 15 to 20 percent.
I have looked into these clinics both in bali and thialand for a freind. The majors ones are as well run as any of the ones in the states at about a 3rd of the cost with the same treatments.
Hospital quality detox , 12 step, counseling, peer groups, heath diet and activities among some of the features. Also most offer the most up to date medications for addiction.

A drug addict or a alcoholic usually at the point of entering a rehab center is looking at a ruined life , divorce , lost of freinds and famliy , prison and death just around the corner .
So if it was me grabbing a lifeline I'd much rather pay a third the price and get away from all the crap that I have surrounded myself with and be somewhere like Bali or thialand . And pray that I have the strength to change the things I can and ignore the things I can't change and the wisdom to know the difference.

 

[Davita]

Re: post #11 by Steveandpenny

While your post is clearly an affirmation of your concerns it doesn't address my post # 4 which you disagreed with.

I never said anything about international rehab centres nor in Thailand....nor did I infer anything about the success or otherwise of drug rehab centres. It seems you want to get something off your chest and decided to disagree with my post so you could rant.

Please re-read my post #4 clearly.....I said I would question the proficiency and veracity of treatment if conducted by an Indonesian run centre...and I would question the legality if run by Australians (meaning any foreigners).

If you have information on whom owns/operates rehab centres in Bali, and what are the qualifications of the therapists, it would be appreciated if you post. That way we can address what I said in Post # 4.

 

[Daniel50]

Other than your own bigotries, why?

 

[steveandpenny]

Davita I didn't direct any comments about your comments about indonesian government rehab because that's not what this thread started with. You decided to run a whole differant direction than this post started with ,Which was private rehab centers in thialand and bali.
Sessions is a drug rehab company run from the United States. They have multiple centers in the United states as well as a few around the world ie. Costa Rica, Mexico and Bali. One of the reason they started up rehab centers out of the United states is they can use new treatment options that are very promising in dealing with addiction.
I don't know if you are aware of how hard it is in the states to get new drugs approved for treatment and I don't really want to get into the reason for that.

So if you want to rant on about how bad the government does things start a new thread.

 

[Davita]

Davita I didn't direct any comments about your comments about indonesian government rehab because that's not what this thread started with. You decided to run a whole differant direction than this post started with ,Which was private rehab centers in thialand and bali.
Sessions is a drug rehab company run from the United States. They have multiple centers in the United states as well as a few around the world ie. Costa Rica, Mexico and Bali. One of the reason they started up rehab centers out of the United states is they can use new treatment options that are very promising in dealing with addiction.
I don't know if you are aware of how hard it is in the states to get new drugs approved for treatment and I don't really want to get into the reason for that.

So if you want to rant on about how bad the government does things start a new thread.

Let's establish facts and kindly show me in my post #4, the one you clicked 'disagree', where I made any comment about Indonesian Gov't. rehab centres.

The linked-quote in post # 6 to the way others generally see how Indonesia incarcerates addicts, as do other Asian countries, and is in stark contrast to world standards and norms, came later. It was in response to member WK who said 'quote'...'Other than your own bigotries, why?' The link endorsed my opinion that Indonesia still didn't have the right thinking, nor had anyone suitably qualified, on addiction rehabilitation....but some were working on that.
You didn't disagree with that post yet somehow came to a conclusion that I made you feel disgusted...I don't understand that.

Thank you for the info on the drug rehab centre in Bali 'Sessions' which answers that it is a foreign owned/operated company with strict International standards ....and affirms my point. However, my next question would be...... 'does that centre employ any foreigners illegally?'

My comments in post #4 also states what happened before (about a year ago) with the finding of many foreign chiropractors in RI operating, according to Indonesian law, without proper work permits. Because of that there are few Internationally qualified and regulated chiropractors left in Indonesia.
I feel the same situation could apply to rehab centres (if employing foreigners illegally) with the possibility for those who pay in advance for therapy to arrive and find the centre not available. This happened to many who pre-paid for treatments when the foreign chiropractors (without proper permits) left in a hurry....I have personal knowledge of that.

 

[William King]

Let's establish facts and kindly show me in my post #4, the one you clicked 'disagree', where I made any comment about Indonesian Gov't. rehab centres.

The linked-quote in post # 6 to the way others generally see how Indonesia incarcerates addicts, as do other Asian countries, and is in stark contrast to world standards and norms, came later. It was in response to member WK who said 'quote'...'Other than your own bigotries, why?' The link endorsed my opinion that Indonesia still didn't have the right thinking, nor had anyone suitably qualified, on addiction rehabilitation....but some were working on that.
You didn't disagree with that post yet somehow came to a conclusion that I made you feel disgusted...I don't understand that.

Thank you for the info on the drug rehab centre in Bali 'Sessions' which answers that it is a foreign owned/operated company with strict International standards ....and affirms my point. However, my next question would be...... 'does that centre employ any foreigners illegally?'

My comments in post #4 also states what happened before (about a year ago) with the finding of many foreign chiropractors in RI operating, according to Indonesian law, without proper work permits. Because of that there are few Internationally qualified and regulated chiropractors left in Indonesia.
I feel the same situation could apply to rehab centres (if employing foreigners illegally) with the possibility for those who pay in advance for therapy to arrive and find the centre not available. This happened to many who pre-paid for treatments when the foreign chiropractors (without proper permits) left in a hurry....I have personal knowledge of that.

You just cannot help yourself, can you. Why not try saying "I'm sorry" and leave it at that.

 

[Davita]

You just cannot help yourself, can you. Why not try saying "I'm sorry" and leave it at that.

The only thing I'm sorry about are your childish responses and apparent obsession to click the disagree button without stating what you disagree with....weren't you warned about that in the old forum?

 

[steveandpenny]

It's just a disagree button . No big deal and I don't have to justify to you why I disagree. Damn it's like argueing with some one who supports trump , why bother.

 

[Davita]

It's just a disagree button . No big deal and I don't have to justify to you why I disagree. Damn it's like argueing with some one who supports trump , why bother.

1. What to hell has Trump got to do with anything we are posting.
2. You said "I find some of your comment disgusting." and then you come up with some lame reason that I twisted the conversation. I believe you intentionally, or inadvertently, misconstrued what I said to fit your own rant...and now you're unwilling to recant.

That's OK ...it shows character....or lack thereof.

 

[Lighthouse Bali]

Having a little experience with addiction and rehab facilities, both though myself and with love ones . I find some of your comment disgusting. Private rehabs (which what this tread is about)for both alchol and drug abuse are big bussiness both in the United States and around the world. The success rate over long term is only around 15 to 20 percent.
I have looked into these clinics both in bali and thialand for a freind. The majors ones are as well run as any of the ones in the states at about a 3rd of the cost with the same treatments.
Hospital quality detox , 12 step, counseling, peer groups, heath diet and activities among some of the features. Also most offer the most up to date medications for addiction.

A drug addict or a alcoholic usually at the point of entering a rehab center is looking at a ruined life , divorce , lost of freinds and famliy , prison and death just around the corner .
So if it was me grabbing a lifeline I'd much rather pay a third the price and get away from all the crap that I have surrounded myself with and be somewhere like Bali or thialand . And pray that I have the strength to change the things I can and ignore the things I can't change and the wisdom to know the difference.

Agree - thanks for saying this!