Axing The "Ex"

SamR

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This is a question out of genuine curiosity for the other Exes on the forum:

We've already decided to return to Indonesia after having spent extended times abroad which means you've already defied the notion of "Once you live overseas you won't come back to Indonesia".

Some of us have a Kitap already which is an indication that we want to be here for an extended period of time.

My question is: has anyone considered taking the final step to go on and become a WNI again?
 

snpark

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Ex Indonesian or ex husband wife?
What exactly are you discussing?
Regaining citizenship?
 

SamR

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It was supposed to be a pun, the Ex in this being the Ex-WNI. You axe the "Ex" in the Ex-WNI and you become a WNI again. So yes, it is a question out there to the other Ex-WNIs about whether they have considered regaining their WNI status.
 

Banana72

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This is a question out of genuine curiosity for the other Exes on the forum:

We've already decided to return to Indonesia after having spent extended times abroad which means you've already defied the notion of "Once you live overseas you won't come back to Indonesia".

Some of us have a Kitap already which is an indication that we want to be here for an extended period of time.

My question is: has anyone considered taking the final step to go on and become a WNI again?
At this point...my answer is no. Although I've been here for a long time and have adjusted to many aspects of living...I can't let go of my (US) citizenship. It's a part of me same like Indonesia (or at least used to be).

Now...for 'practical' reasons. Keeping my US assets (retirement accounts, etc) is easier with my citizenship...and although social security ain't much, but it'll be nice to receive it when the time comes vs zero pension in Indonesia.

Downsides to being WNA for me so far: The hassle of dealing with KITAP/MERP, and not to mention...costs associated with them. Also, not being able to inherit the family business (without making it a pt pma which i a hassle)... I have no intention in inheriting anyway...once my parents move on from this life, very likely I'll just cash out whatever shares/portion, get bought out whatever possible and just retire..
 

fastpitch17

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A non citizen residing in a foreign country can collect US Social Security if they have contributed to it legally. You can find that info on the SS web site
 

Helpful Herbert

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I would have thought the work permit \imta would be the most annoying part, trying to find an employer willing to do that
 

snpark

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I've now spent more of my life outside of the UK than living there and even if I wanted to, because I never paid much / enough national insurance or tax I'm not even eligible for certain pension and health benefits.
I have absolutely zero family relatives etc none whatsoever so no "reason" to need to go back
Certainly wouldn't choose to

Rather live in a developing country slowly getting better than a developed one slowly falling apart.

Have a friend in London for Xmas and she's posting receipts of dinners etc just a casual pasta or Thai meal for 3 is £150 no alcohol. She has money but she's wtf 3jt just for mall franchise style meal?

No I certainly won't be retiring in Europe. For all its faults most of which I don't care about or notice, Jakarta / Indonesia is good enough for me. Happy here and no intentions to leave.
 

ukcouple

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If it's any consolation.. if you can hang in there and keep breathing until the age of 80 you will get the over 80 pension irrespective of NI Contributions.
 

snpark

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So from the day I left school to today, I still have all that time again just to reach 80's
Damn
So I'm only middle aged then not old
 

Helpful Herbert

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So from the day I left school to today, I still have all that time again just to reach 80's
Damn
So I'm only middle aged then not old
You know you can pay class 4 nic's to catch up on the years of national insurance you have missed, right?
I started doing that about 10 years ago so by the time I get to state retirement age I will get the full UK pension even though I left the UK in my twenties.
Currently the contributions are around £180 per year, and the pension level you would get from age 67 or 68 is around £10,400 per year.
 
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snpark

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Yes but is it worth paying all that money upfront in the off chance I am still around when I am 67 to claim possibly a weekly pension
When I get to 66 then I will send them a cheque for 47 years x 180 and say now start sending me back 10k a year
 

Helpful Herbert

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You can only go back 6 years I think in terms of paying to catch up. So let's say you had 7 years from when you were in the UK (it should be on your national insurance record), pay back 6 years as a lumpsum, and pay for the next 15 years (assuming you are 52) you will achieve 28 years, entitling you to 28\35 of the full pension at age 67.
All details are on gov.uk.
Of course if you are not planning to live past 67 then there isn't much point!
 

snpark

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I left a year or 2 after leaving school and that was 3 decades ago++
Well its not up to me when I die unfortunately

I have it pencilled in for a quiet Monday rainy afternoon

Hopefully not while I'm having a crap so they find my body half naked with a mobile phone in my hand
 

Banana72

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Rather live in a developing country slowly getting better than a developed one slowly falling apart.
Perfect quote. Many people are still stuck thinking about Indonesia as a 'developing country' but really aside from dealing with the typical annoyance (government/immigration) or lack of communication/coordination in general...overall the living standard here is getting much better in the past few years with still about a little over half of the cost of the same standard living back in PDX.

The only thing I still struggle is just connecting with people. The Jakarta mindset of connecting only on superficial level, too intense, or very business-based/needs or welcoming you based on background (usually money) get a bit tiring...but slowly I accept it as just typical large metropolitan city wherever you are.
 

Nimbus

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I may retire in Indonesia. I think the cost would still be considerably cheaper than, say, Florida or Texas. The hardest adjustment would be dealing with the dog-eat-dog attitude in Jakarta, or with you’re-a-fucking-outsider attitude elsewhere in the provinces. Bules may get charged a premium, but they usually get premium treatment too. It’s not true for internal immigrants.
 

Banana72

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I may retire in Indonesia. I think the cost would still be considerably cheaper than, say, Florida or Texas. The hardest adjustment would be dealing with the dog-eat-dog attitude in Jakarta, or with you’re-a-fucking-outsider attitude elsewhere in the provinces. Bules may get charged a premium, but they usually get premium treatment too. It’s not true for internal immigrants.
I feel ya dude. But as you said you'll be retiring here....so hopefully you can skip the usual effort of (exhausting) business networking,or (not) doing family business and just take your time in joining a couple social clubs/groups here (but that itself has its challenges/pros/cons like any other groups). So you probably have to deal some annoyance with immigration, certain way banks do things, kelurahan, traffic, etc. I learned from experience that for 'us' (exes, inside-outsider, etc whatever you wanna label yourself), we just have to always try to play it 'cool' when we hang out with the locals about our situation/status. Either they just don't wanna hear our rants about what's wrong with the beloved country (I did bitch quite a bit the first couple years during my transition from being too stressed out), or they just plain don't like it when you accidentally compare US vs Indo etc. I've lost some acquaintances due to this. One even responded my ranting with "I don't know about you but i love Jakarta" (like can't I rant about something while still relatively enjoy where I live?)
 

Nimbus

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I feel ya dude. But as you said you'll be retiring here....so hopefully you can skip the usual effort of (exhausting) business networking,or (not) doing family business and just take your time in joining a couple social clubs/groups here (but that itself has its challenges/pros/cons like any other groups). So you probably have to deal some annoyance with immigration, certain way banks do things, kelurahan, traffic, etc. I learned from experience that for 'us' (exes, inside-outsider, etc whatever you wanna label yourself), we just have to always try to play it 'cool' when we hang out with the locals about our situation/status. Either they just don't wanna hear our rants about what's wrong with the beloved country (I did bitch quite a bit the first couple years during my transition from being too stressed out), or they just plain don't like it when you accidentally compare US vs Indo etc. I've lost some acquaintances due to this. One even responded my ranting with "I don't know about you but i love Jakarta" (like can't I rant about something while still relatively enjoy where I live?)
Yeah, people who have not spent a lot of time abroad tend to have a smaller horizon, and get antsy when you’re critical about their country. I was very critical about Indo gov’t even before I went to America, to the point of putting my literal neck on the line by protesting against Suharto. After that, I feel that I earned the right to talk shit about the country, from an insider’s perspective. They think I badmouth Indonesia? Wait until they hear what I say about America. I’m an equal opportunity offender. Bitching is a sport I’m getting better at as I age.
 

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