Australian Aged Pension and the 2 year portability rule.

Nicho

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Jan 14, 2021
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Anyone dealt with Pelican Expatriate Services /Sydney regarding claiming the Australian Aged pension whilst living in Indonesia ?
 
Why use an agent? I presume you would have to pay. Web sites for Service australia and Centrelink are easily accessed. You can also check mygov.au

An Australian living in Indonesia can make a claim for the Aged Pension through the Australian Consulate-General in Jakarta. Here are the general steps involved:

  1. Gather necessary documents: This may include your passport, birth certificate, proof of Australian citizenship, and evidence of your income and assets.
  2. Contact the Australian Consulate-General: Make an appointment to discuss your claim with a consular officer.
  3. Submit claim form: Complete the necessary forms and provide the required documentation.
  4. Provide proof of residency: You will need to demonstrate that you have been living in Indonesia for at least six months before making your claim.
  5. Assessment: The Australian Government will assess your eligibility based on your income, assets, and other relevant factors.
  6. Receive decision: You will be notified of the decision regarding your claim, including the amount of the pension you may be eligible to receive.
It is important to note that the specific requirements and procedures may vary, so it is recommended to contact the Australian Consulate-General in Jakarta for the most up-to-date information.
 
Why use an agent? I presume you would have to pay. Web sites for Service australia and Centrelink are easily accessed. You can also check mygov.au

An Australian living in Indonesia can make a claim for the Aged Pension through the Australian Consulate-General in Jakarta. Here are the general steps involved:

  1. Gather necessary documents: This may include your passport, birth certificate, proof of Australian citizenship, and evidence of your income and assets.
  2. Contact the Australian Consulate-General: Make an appointment to discuss your claim with a consular officer.
  3. Submit claim form: Complete the necessary forms and provide the required documentation.
  4. Provide proof of residency: You will need to demonstrate that you have been living in Indonesia for at least six months before making your claim.
  5. Assessment: The Australian Government will assess your eligibility based on your income, assets, and other relevant factors.
  6. Receive decision: You will be notified of the decision regarding your claim, including the amount of the pension you may be eligible to receive.
It is important to note that the specific requirements and procedures may vary, so it is recommended to contact the Australian Consulate-General in Jakarta for the most up-to-date information.
Have checked all the mentioned web sites , all state that an Australian living in any country that does not have a Social Security Agreement with Australia must return to Australia to lodge there application and convince Centrelink that you have returned to live in Australia permanently and not just to claim the pension . Then if approved must live in Australia for 2 years before the pension becomes fully portable and can return to the country they lived in . Where did yo get this information ? Myself and hundreds of others would be very interested to find out about this .
 

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Check out this story .. once you leave Autralia .. that's it ...

He would have been entitled to a pension if he met the requirements before he left Australia and had lived there " Australia " for 2 years before submitting his claim . He would then have qualified for the full portability of the pension and been able to move to and get the pension in Thailand. Thousands of expats in Thailand and other parts of South East Asia still receive there Australian Pensions . The only way he wouldn't be entitled is if he had to much money /assets etc . The problem myself and other expats have is we moved overseas before we were entitled to the pension , relying on payouts from redundancies , self funded superannuation payouts etc and any savings we had to provide until we reached pension age "67" for Australians . A lot of expats were unaware of the 2 year portability rule which states you have to have been living in Australia for 2 years before applying or return and live in Australia for 2 years after applying and receiving the pension to qualify for full portability and be able to move back to the country you were living in or wish to live in . Australia has no Social Security Agreement with Indonesia . Expats living in countries that do have an agreement can apply from that country and do the 2 years there . After working for almost 40 years and paying taxes of which a percentage was to provide the Aged Pension the Australian government is trying everything in there power not to pay it !
 
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After working for almost 40 years and paying taxes of which a percentage was to provide the Aged Pension the Australian government is trying everything in there power not to pay it !

This system is very shocking for an European, where pension is considered something sacro saint.
You will note that in France as soon the government tries to touch / modify it, the response is huge strikes and demonstrations.
Even when the change is justified like retarding the pension age by 2 years.
 
Nicho, if the 2 year portability rule is rigid how would Pelican help? It does seem most government bureaus providing services contrive many reasons to deny access. Reducing payouts is seen as efficiency with equity not being given such a high priority. Having paid taxes for 70 years I am eligible for a reduced pension. Meanwhile my pensioner concession card has been cancelled as I live in Indonesia. The rule is that if you leave Australia for more than 6 weeks the concession card is cancelled. This is not insignificant as I return to Australia each year for medical purposes and a big difference not getting the concession on medical prescriptions or concessional transport. I could argue that when back in Australia I satisfy all the criteria to be eligible for the concession card and it should be renewed but even trying to communicate this through the various services agencies is tedious and time consuming.

I do hope that you can get through this portability issue and organize a pension. Please let us know later how you navigate this issue.
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Nicho, if the 2 year portability rule is rigid how would Pelican help? It does seem most government bureaus providing services contrive many reasons to deny access. Reducing payouts is seen as efficiency with equity not being given such a high priority. Having paid taxes for 70 years I am eligible for a reduced pension. Meanwhile my pensioner concession card has been cancelled as I live in Indonesia. The rule is that if you leave Australia for more than 6 weeks the concession card is cancelled. This is not insignificant as I return to Australia each year for medical purposes and a big difference not getting the concession on medical prescriptions or concessional transport. I could argue that when back in Australia I satisfy all the criteria to be eligible for the concession card and it should be renewed but even trying to communicate this through the various services agencies is tedious and time consuming.

I do hope that you can get through this portability issue and organize a pension. Please let us know later how you navigate this issue.
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Yes that's why I put my original post up . Sounds a bit suspect to me if the rule is so rigid . Yes you loose the card and a lot of other benefits from what's on there web sites . Seems to be a lot of expats throughout S/East Asia in the same boat as me . Some already back in Australia doing the 2 years before they claim hoping to get there applications approved and return as soon as the pension comes through . Some expats in Bali already on the pension claim to have received letters stating there no longer considered Australian citizens and may loose there pensions . As long as I hold an Australian passport and birth certificate I consider myself an Australian no matter where I live . Be interested to find out if what you said previously about Australians being able to claim through the Australian Consulate is correct . Did you go through them ? I'll email them later in the week regarding it . I'm still 2 1/2 years off the pension age but I'll post updates with anything I find out . Cheers .
 
Yes that's why I put my original post up . Sounds a bit suspect to me if the rule is so rigid . Yes you loose the card and a lot of other benefits from what's on there web sites . Seems to be a lot of expats throughout S/East Asia in the same boat as me . Some already back in Australia doing the 2 years before they claim hoping to get there applications approved and return as soon as the pension comes through . Some expats in Bali already on the pension claim to have received letters stating there no longer considered Australian citizens and may loose there pensions . As long as I hold an Australian passport and birth certificate I consider myself an Australian no matter where I live . Be interested to find out if what you said previously about Australians being able to claim through the Australian Consulate is correct . Did you go through them ? I'll email them later in the week regarding it . I'm still 2 1/2 years off the pension age but I'll post updates with anything I find out . Cheers .
I had been on the pension for years before coming to Bali. As for people losing their Australian citizenship for being out of the country for some years I recall a case many years ago where an Australian living in Britain tried to return to Aus and was told he was no longer a citizen. I forget all the details but it seems outrageous that an Australian born here can be told he is no longer a citizen whatever the circumstance. The advice about the Australian consulate being a place to make an application came from AI Gemini. So, I guess the only way you can be sure is to contact the Jakarta Australian consulate.
 
I had been on the pension for years before coming to Bali. As for people losing their Australian citizenship for being out of the country for some years I recall a case many years ago where an Australian living in Britain tried to return to Aus and was told he was no longer a citizen. I forget all the details but it seems outrageous that an Australian born here can be told he is no longer a citizen whatever the circumstance. The advice about the Australian consulate being a place to make an application came from AI Gemini. So, I guess the only way you can be sure is to contact the Jakarta Australian consulate.
Will do , I'll contact the Australian consulate here in Java Timur / Surabaya as well . The citizenship business is a bit of a scare tactic I think , they'll let you renew your Australian passport here through the Australian Consulate without any mention of citizenship yet they declare you a non citizen after 6 months out of the country from what I've read on there web sites . Cheers .
 
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Will do , I'll contact the Australian consulate here in Java Timur / Surabaya as well . The citizenship business is a bit of a scare tactic I think , they'll let you renew your Australian passport here through the Australian Consulate without any mention of citizenship yet they declare you a non citizen after 6 months out of the country from what I've read on there web sites . Cheers .
I think people get confused between residency and citizenship. Certain social security benefits may change when you are not an Australian resident for certain periods but this has no impact on citizenship.
 
Well nice in theory but I am quite sure that the case I mentioned where an Australian had been living in Britain for many years had lost his citizenship entitlements including returning to Australia. It did create a stir at the time so hopefully whatever ruling was used has now been wiped.
 
Well nice in theory but I am quite sure that the case I mentioned where an Australian had been living in Britain for many years had lost his citizenship entitlements including returning to Australia. It did create a stir at the time so hopefully whatever ruling was used has now been wiped.
This is a scary topic! If this is true, that a person has to live in country to maintain citizenship? Talk about control over your rights to be a human being and live on this planet wherever you wish. If you were born in Australia, that makes you an Australian for life! You are also a human being born on this Planet, and have the right to travel, live, work, prosper, bear children, even die, wherever you wish. No one country has the right to control you, or your freedoms! I think what Brain said is more accurate, even though I don't think it's fair. If you worked and lived and payed taxes, for thirty or forty years, you should have the right to move, and retain your social benefits outside of your home country! The only reason they don't want you to leave and live somewhere else, is to control your spending, and money. They want your money until you die! This is not freedom
 
I do not think people could lose their Australian Citizenship just by being out of the country for some years. I know this has been the case with the country share some similarities with Australia regarding how citizenship can be revoked and the treatment of dual nationals such as the UK.

If someone said they lost the Australian citizenship just by not living in the country he might talking another case or there might be some of untold story here.

Based on the these expert opinions, people could only lose their AU citizenship if:

Fraud: If a person obtained Australian citizenship through fraud or false representation, or concealment of relevant information, their citizenship can be revoked

Dual Citizenship: If a person holds dual citizenship and engages in certain conduct that is inconsistent with allegiance to Australia, such as fighting for a foreign country at war with Australia or a declared terrorist organization

Automatic Cessation: Under certain conditions, such as engaging in terrorism-related conduct, a dual citizen's Australian citizenship can be automatically revoked without a criminal charge or conviction

Serious Criminal Offences: If a dual citizen is convicted of certain serious crimes (e.g., terrorism-related offences) and sentenced to at least six years in prison, the Minister for Home Affairs can revoke their citizenship.

Voluntary Renunciation: A person can voluntarily renounce their Australian citizenship if they acquire another nationality.
 
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I do not think people could lose their Australian Citizenship just by being out of the country for some years. I know this has been the case with the country share some similarities with Australia regarding how citizenship can be revoked and the treatment of dual nationals such as the UK.

If someone said they lost the Australian citizenship just by not living in the country he might talking another case or there might be some of untold story here.

Based on the these expert opinions, people could only lose their AU citizenship if:

Fraud: If a person obtained Australian citizenship through fraud or false representation, or concealment of relevant information, their citizenship can be revoked

Dual Citizenship: If a person holds dual citizenship and engages in certain conduct that is inconsistent with allegiance to Australia, such as fighting for a foreign country at war with Australia or a declared terrorist organization

Automatic Cessation: Under certain conditions, such as engaging in terrorism-related conduct, a dual citizen's Australian citizenship can be automatically revoked without a criminal charge or conviction

Serious Criminal Offences: If a dual citizen is convicted of certain serious crimes (e.g., terrorism-related offences) and sentenced to at least six years in prison, the Minister for Home Affairs can revoke their citizenship1

Voluntary Renunciation: A person can voluntarily renounce their Australian citizenship if they acquire another nationality.
Correct IMHO...
Except for the dual nationals or fraudulously obtained citizenship a country that adhere to the U.N. can not render one of it's own citizens stateless.
It is against the UN regulations (for whatever that is still worth nowadays...)

We have the problem in France with 2nd or 3rd generation kids of immigrants / refugies from our previous "colonial empire". Those kids represent a abnormal very high percentage of criminals in France. But there is no way to kick them out or take away their citizenship, as they have it by being born in France.
Right wing parries are now asking to remove this "acquire the nationality by being born on French soil" from the constitution, but little chance they succeed.
All this to say that except from dual nationals, who are supposed to have a 2nd or 3rd passport, or fraudolous obtained nationalization, it is not possible for a country to take away one of its citizens nationality.
Now, of course there are other ways, like making passport renewal very difficult (Russia and Ukraine play this with their citizens who fled overseas).
But you still are on the country's registers. Well, except in some dictatorship countries...
 
Correct IMHO...
Except for the dual nationals or fraudulously obtained citizenship a country that adhere to the U.N. can not render one of it's own citizens stateless.
Well this is clear in almost every single country on this planet earth and therefore it does not need to be spelled out. Even in Indonesian citizenship law, it is clearly stated that while Indonesian citizenship could be revoked, it does not allow the Indonesian people to become stateless when their citizenship is revoked..
 
Well this is clear in almost every single country on this planet earth and therefore it does not need to be spelled out. Even in Indonesian citizenship law, it is clearly stated that while Indonesian citizenship could be revoked, it does not allow the Indonesian people to become stateless when their citizenship is revoked..
I don't understand that. If your citizenship has been revoked you are ipso facto stateless.
 
I don't understand that. If your citizenship has been revoked you are ipso facto stateless.
Not if you are dual or tri national.
A good number of people have 2 passports.
I have, my 3 kids (Eurasian) also.
Plenty English have an Irish passport as well.
 
Apart from multiple passports I still don't understand how this rule functions if an Indonesian national does not have another passport and his citizenship has been revoked.
" it is clearly stated that while Indonesian citizenship could be revoked, it does not allow the Indonesian people to become stateless when their citizenship is revoked.."
 
Apart from multiple passports I still don't understand how this rule functions if an Indonesian national does not have another passport and his citizenship has been revoked.
" it is clearly stated that while Indonesian citizenship could be revoked, it does not allow the Indonesian people to become stateless when their citizenship is revoked.
That is correct. When Indonesian citizenship is revoked, it must not leave the person stateless. This is clearly stated in the law with no ambiguity. If revoking Indonesian citizenship would lead the people to become stateless, the decision becomes invalid and can be readily contested in court. In cases where Indonesians are involved in serious crimes like terrorism or drug trafficking, their citizenship is not revoked. Instead, they are often sentenced to the death penalty.

It is a common knowledge that In Indonesia, dual nationality is not permitted. However, if an Indonesian acquires citizenship in another country, the process of losing Indonesian citizenship is lenghty and complicated. Only the Indonesian president can officially declare the loss of Indonesian citizenship, and this must be done through a presidential decree.

A common example, especially in the past, is children from mixed marriages who, upon turning 18, simply pretend not to hold dual nationality until they get caught. They often get caught when they request services, like asking an Indonesian passport to enable them to travel outside Indonesian territory. At that point, it is not unusual for them to be asked for an affidavit.

If I recall correctly, I have previously shared some examples of this situation in this forum. For instance, former Vice Minister Alchandra Tahar and the former regent of Sabu Raijua in East Nusa Tenggara Orient P Riwu Kore were both getting caught to hold U.S. citizenship.

Additionally, some Indonesians are born in the U.S. There are rumors that the former Indonesian president's daughter in law holds dual nationality, as she was born in the U.S., with no reports of her renouncing her American citizenship. This is similar to a former minister from former Indonesian president's cabinet. In the US Supreme Court has ruled that anyone born in the US cannot lose heir citizenship unless they voluntarily renounce it.

In Indonesia, in such cases, if getting caught they simply renounced one of their citizenships.

Another past example involves Muslim hardliners who joined ISIS and appeared in video clips provoking the Indonesian government. In response, the Indonesian president issued a decree revoking their citizenship. However, they are not considered stateless, as the Indonesian government argues they still hold citizenship with ISIS and the Indonesian government as well as jihaders consider ISIS is a country at that time.

In all of the cases above noone has become stateless when their Indonesian citizenship are revoked.
 
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