Are you ready for Jokowi-Prabowo 2024?

[ChrisTex]

I heard this last week, but is there a running limit for an office? Prabowa ran against Jokowi twice and lost. This person had mentioned that because of this, Prabowa wouldn't be allowed to run for president in 2024(assuming he wants to).

 

[nd_eric_77]

I heard this last week, but is there a running limit for an office? Prabowa ran against Jokowi twice and lost. This person had mentioned that because of this, Prabowa wouldn't be allowed to run for president in 2024(assuming he wants to).

The cynical side of me says that if Jokowi changes the constitution to allow a third term, there is nothing to prevent Prabowo's allies from making a similar change to allow him to run a third time. The net result is that the institution of a two term limit is far more important than the popularity of any person wanting to remove that limit (even if I personally like that person).

 

[pantaiema]

I heard this last week, but is there a running limit for an office? Prabowa ran against Jokowi twice and lost. This person had mentioned that because of this, Prabowa wouldn't be allowed to run for president in 2024(assuming he wants to).

The two term limit is mentioned in the constitution. But AFAIK there is no limit how many times a person could run for the presidency. What would restrict them is probably whether their parties would want to support for their nomination.

 

[ChrisTex]

The two term limit is mentioned in the constitution. But AFAIK there is no limit how many times a person could run for the presidency. What would restrict them is probably whether their parties would want to support for their nomination.

Once again, you are missing the point and replying to a post from 2021. Trying to get your post count up?

I know there is a term limit for president and it is in the constitution(although some people want to change it). So Jokowi is out. as president and can no longer run again. This is not the question.

There were others who have said there is a limit on the number of times you can run for president and others who seem to indicate there is no limit which in the case is Prabowo(hence the thread title by the OP). I would say he is a special case and not the norm hence asking for clarification.

Otherwise you might end up like this guy(Beto O' Rourke) and you can probably kiss your political career good bye.

 

[pantaiema]

Once again, you are missing the point and replying to a post from 2021. Trying to get your post count up?

I know there is a term limit for president and it is in the constitution(although some people want to change it). So Jokowi is out. as president and can no longer run again. This is not the question.

There were others who have said there is a limit on the number of times you can run for president and others who seem to indicate there is no limit which in the case is Prabowo(hence the thread title by the OP). I would say he is a special case and not the norm hence asking for clarification.

Otherwise you might end up like this guy(Beto O' Rourke) and you can probably kiss your political career good bye.


View attachment 2786

Well, I never say whether you know or you do not know that there is a limit to run for presidency stated in the constitution. What matter for a politician, especially the shameless one is what mentioned in the constitution. Let alone to run for the top job in the country. Unless the constitution is changed a person could still run for presidency indefinitely if they want to do that and there is support for it. Similarly, thinking people are posting to forum to get their post count up are also personal opinion.

 

[Hawk256]

I'm walking into this one late and maybe I don't fully understand the situation. Constitutions can be changed but according to who is in power, most people will think it is a major overreach to change it for their own benefit or to halt a past oppenent. Mostly happens in dictatorships and leaves the appropirate after taste. As far as Probowo running again, is there actually a law that says you can't run for office more than twice? It seems there should be a clear answer.

 

[R Cameron]

As far as Probowo running again, is there actually a law that says you can't run for office more than twice? It seems there should be a clear answer.

There is not. The UUD 1945 said the period is 5 years and they may be reelected. After a certain president used that a few too many times, it was amended to add they can only be reelected one time. It only refers to being elected, not running.

 

[pantaiema]

I'm walking into this one late and maybe I don't fully understand the situation. Constitutions can be changed but according to who is in power, most people will think it is a major overreach to change it for their own benefit or to halt a past oppenent. Mostly happens in dictatorships and leaves the appropriate after taste. As far as Probowo running again, is there actually a law that says you can't run for office more than twice? It seems there should be a clear answer.

This is original version of Chapter 7. The Indonesian Constitution (e.g. UUD 45)
Chapter 7: The President and Vice President hold office for five years and can be re-elected after that.
This constitution has been used by the former dictator Suharto to get elected and re-elected Multiple terms. Also during the nomination in his era it was always a single candidate, no other candidate.

After Amendment
Chapter 7: The President and Vice President hold office for five years, after which they can be re-elected to the same position, for one term only.

So unless the constitution is changed The incumbent president Joko Widodo can not be re-elected again. Changing a constitution is a major thing. So considering is only one year from now, changing the constitution is highly unlikely.

Regarding running for presidency there is no limit for that. So a person could still run for president again and again as long as they meet the criteria. Nothing to prevent Probowo to run for president again.

 

[ChrisTex]

Well, I never say whether you know or you do not know that there is a limit to run for presidency stated in the constitution. What matter for a politician, especially the shameless one is what mentioned in the constitution. Let alone to run for the top job in the country. Unless the constitution is changed a person could still run for presidency indefinitely if they want to do that and there is support for it. Similarly, thinking people are posting to forum to get their post count up are also personal opinion.

How about reading the whole thread. That would be a good place to start.

We have already discussed how this is Jokowi's last term but if you had been keeping up with the news in the last year, you would have seen there are some groups(not Jokowi) who want to change the constitution to remove the term limit. Jokowi has already said no, but that isn't going to stop those same groups from pushing the issue in 2024 and beyond.

And in your last post about there being no limit in running, you should have just said that to begin with.

 

[pantaiema]

Ganjar Pronowo has now get endorsement from the incumbent president Joko Widodo. This is certainly a game changer.
It is now down to PDI-P party to choose the nominated vice president. If the party nominates the vice president such as Mahfud MD who himself is not corrupt, has no fear to bulldoze, to run over any corruptor get backed up by other power, he could win the election effortless. it might be just one round. Unfortunately no party nominates him as the president as he is a non partisan. Ganjar himself has not been linked to any corruption case, so he is probably not bad, bad it has not been fully tested.

Prabowo Subianto was Suharto's son in law so be part of the Suharto's inner cycle, arguably one of the most corrupt regime in the world history. This is Prabowo's third presidential bid. He was dishonourably discharged from the army. Also people are whispering about his and his brother's wealth.

Joko Widodo has been working together with these people so he definitely knows a lot of the background of these people.

 

[pantaiema]

One of the manifesto from a Vice president Candidate from the national awakening party (PKB) who is currently campaigning with Anies

5 Janji PKB Jika Cak Imin Menang Pilpres 2024: Anggaran Dana Desa Rp 5 Miliar hingga BBM dan Sekolah Gratis

Sedikitnya ada lima janji PKB jika Cak Imin menang Pilpres 2024, dari alokasi anggaran dana desa Rp 5 miliar hingga sekolah dan BBM gratis.

bisnis.tempo.co

Free Petrol for Motor bikes owners Could you believe that

 

[nd_eric_77]

One of Indonesian Candidate of Vice president tfrom national awakening party (PKB) which is currently champign with Anies

5 Janji PKB Jika Cak Imin Menang Pilpres 2024: Anggaran Dana Desa Rp 5 Miliar hingga BBM dan Sekolah Gratis

Sedikitnya ada lima janji PKB jika Cak Imin menang Pilpres 2024, dari alokasi anggaran dana desa Rp 5 miliar hingga sekolah dan BBM gratis.

bisnis.tempo.co

Free Petrol for Motor bikes owner Could you believe that

If they did that, I would be tempted to sell my E-bike and replace it with a gas-guzzling motorcycle.

 

[Ruserious]

Free Petrol for Motor bikes owner Could you believe that

wow what a great idea and will defintiely make people happy. They could nationalise all the supply and distribution to make it work. Oh and then do the same with rice, cooking oil and sugar as they are important too. But surely to make it easier for that they will need to arrange the workforce into collectives to increase supply.

 

[fastpitch17]

PDI-P is putting out feelers placing Ganjar on the Prabowo ticket.

 

[pantaiema]

BREAKING NEWS - Mahfud MD's response after it was announced that he is Ganjar Pranowo's vice presidential candidate.

MahfudMD, who was declared as Ganjar Pranowo's running mate by the PDIP, one of Indonesia's major political parties, made an interesting revelation. Typically, in Indonesian politics, when someone is nominated by a party, the primary concern revolves around how much money can be amassed for the campaign of the party to win. However, in MahfudMD's case (demonstrated in the video), the party leader, Megawati, took a different approach. Instead of asking about campaign finances, she asked him, "What do you need? Just tell me." He is a non-partisan, not affiliated to any political party so it is difficult for the party to nominate him as a president.

To my knowledge, this marks the first time such a declaration has been made, setting it apart from other candidates' experiences. This stands in contrast to the usual practice in Indonesian politics, as demonstrated by the linked article (as below) about Prabowo's approach of accepting money.

https://news.republika.co.id/berita...suai-hati-nurani-prabowo-itu-uang-rakyat-juga
Accept-money-politics-but-vote-according-to-Prabowo's-conscience-that-is-people's-money-too.

Similarly, to the National Democratic Party (NASDEM), as well, this guy the leader of the party, initially pledged to disband the party if any of their candidates were found involved in corruption. However, when two of his party's ministers were apprehended in a prominent corruption case, he denied his statement, reneged on his commitment.

Indonesia, known for its abundant natural resources, has a recurring issue in its political landscape. It is public knowledge for political party nominations, whether for Regents, Mayors, Governors, Ministers, and so on, to be primarily driven by the question of how much financial support the candidates can provide to the party. If my memory serves me correctly, this practice has been evident in the actions across the political parties, not just Gerindra, which nominated Prabowo Subianto as a president. There have been multiple instances, including testimony in the court for high-profile corruption cases that shed light on this matter in the past.

In my opinion, what Indonesia truly needs is a leader who has a strong determination to combat corruption. To achieve this, it is essential for such a leader to maintain an impeccable personal record of integrity and transparency, a person who has track record of both incorruptible and courageous.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

The only one I can think of is Ahok

 

[pantaiema]

The only one I can think of is Ahok

I concur, another individual fitting this description is Ahok. He has demonstrated his unwavering commitment to integrity and fearlessness in the fight against corruption. However, his past experience, where extremists managed to imprison him on blasphemy charges, might make him exercise more caution in his future actions, even if he firmly believes it is the right course of action.

Nonetheless, I think the party has factored in his "Cindo" (Chinese Indonesian) background and his non-Muslim beliefs. Although this shouldn't be an issue for those with an open-minded perspective, it's crucial to bear in mind that this is Indonesia, one of the most racist country in the world and used to be constitutionally racist.

These radicals people, youngsters from boarding schools, could easily be mobilized once again. Providing them with Lunch box and transportation funds could achieve their goals, just as they have done previously. There are reasonable number of them in Java.

Furthermore, it's essential not to overlook that PDIP, despite being a major party, it does not hold a majority of seats in the parliament.

 

[Pak Tani]

...bear in mind that this is Indonesia, one of the most racist country in the world...

And they inherited this from the Dutch, right?

Anyway, is this just an opinion or do you have any research to back this up?

 

[pantaiema]

And they inherited this from the Dutch, right?

Anyway, is this just an opinion or do you have any research to back this up?

This has appeared in the previous links in here in post #54

Excellent article about growing up as a mixed kid in Indonesia

I was not talking about "integrating successfully" in post #5. When they (e.g. those Bali kids) start their career in a Western country, that's when the discrimination starts. That's my own observation, but also my own experience. In my own country I started to talk about this long before Black...

www.expatindo.org

These are the striking points to consider:

1. Notably, you can observe the stark contrast in how the Indonesian government and people historically treated its Chinese and, to some extent, Indian communities when compared to the treatment of people of Arab descent. Indonesian Chinese and Indians and their kids faced restrictions, such as being barred from attending state-funded universities, working as civil servants, or joining the armed forces.The height of this discrimination occurred during the May 1998 riots, with businesses being vandalized, looted, and some individuals experiencing violence, including sexual assault. It's important to note that these individuals are not Chinese citizens but rather Indonesians born in the country, many of them being second or third-generation descendants of Chinese heritage.
2. Indonesia used to have a constitution that fostering racism, constituting state-sponsored racism. However, the constitution has since been amended.
3. Transmigration of Javanese people to other island in Indonesia is a government sponsored program. It's worth noticing how local people from different ethnic backgrounds are treating Javanese migrants in transmigration sanctuaries

Historians and experts indeed contend that racism in Indonesia has its origins in the colonial period under Dutch rule. For a more in-depth discussion, it might be best to open a new thread, which could lead to an interesting conversation where others can share their perspectives.

 

[Pak Tani]

This has appeared in the previous links in here in post #54

Excellent article about growing up as a mixed kid in Indonesia

I was not talking about "integrating successfully" in post #5. When they (e.g. those Bali kids) start their career in a Western country, that's when the discrimination starts. That's my own observation, but also my own experience. In my own country I started to talk about this long before Black...

www.expatindo.org

These are the striking points to consider:

1. Notably, you can observe the stark contrast in how the Indonesian government and people historically treated its Chinese and, to some extent, Indian communities when compared to the treatment of people of Arab descent. Indonesian Chinese and Indians and their kids faced restrictions, such as being barred from attending state-funded universities, working as civil servants, or joining the armed forces.The height of this discrimination occurred during the May 1998 riots, with businesses being vandalized, looted, and some individuals experiencing violence, including sexual assault. It's important to note that these individuals are not Chinese citizens but rather Indonesians born in the country, many of them being second or third-generation descendants of Chinese heritage.
2. Indonesia used to have a constitution that fostering racism, constituting state-sponsored racism. However, the constitution has since been amended.
3. Transmigration of Javanese people to other island in Indonesia is a government sponsored program. It's worth noticing how local people from different ethnic backgrounds are treating Javanese migrants in transmigration sanctuaries

Historians and experts indeed contend that racism in Indonesia has its origins in the colonial period under Dutch rule. For a more in-depth discussion, it might be best to open a new thread, which could lead to an interesting conversation where others can share their perspectives.

I am aware of the existence of racism in Indonesia. But if you say that Indonesia is one of the most racist countries in the world, then I ask you how you determine that. How do you measure that and how do you compare it with other countries? In what order do you place the different types of racism? And racism from different eras in the past, institutional or not, how do you weigh that? This quickly becomes very problematic.
I am fine with a new thread for this subject, but if you can just show me the research that supports your claim, perhaps there is no need for that.